What Does Abortion Have To Do With Pro-Choice?

Should I wish you some experience to feel reality or not ?

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


What is that supposed to mean? Clarify so I can be sure and answer because if I took it the way it is coming across you would not want me to answer. Just sayin'!!

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Are you referring to the case of rape? If my GF/wife was raped, I would leave it up to her in that case. RAPE is an extreme case in which the mother did NOT choose to have sex. Should it be early in the pregnancy? IMO, Definately. Do I believe it should be up to her in this extreme case, yes. Sorry if you don't like the answer but you asked. I also think if a woman's life is in danger, that is another scenario where it would be pretty much a given.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

I have to agree as well. Just because I wouldn't does not mean that another woman will feel the same way. It is her choice once she is raped or if her life will be threatened with a full term pregnancy. Ahhhh....makes me think of that movie where Julia Roberts decides to go with her pregnancy and ends up dying in the end.

"Steel Magnolias" was such a sad but heroic movie....to me of course.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by marg6043

 

Well let's hope your 27 year old daughter wants kids... Otherwise your future granddaughter may just end up in the bottom of a medical waste dumpster...

The legal dumpster baby.. oh my..

If you have the freedom to choose whether or not to kill your child then I should have the freedom to choose whether or not to kill you (without fear of consequence)...

You've obviously never seen those pictures of an Abortion clinic trash can... What you call choice I call genocide.... Amen!

edit on 6-9-2011 by DaMod because: (no reason given)

Damn right ! Like i posted in a different abortion thread, being ignorant and not educating yourself in these times where birth control is available everywhere and FREE is no excuse to get pregnant and then end the life of a human being. Perhaps that was not a choice back in the day but now its simply called stupidity if you can't be responsible for your own actions.

Originally posted by Charmed707
You implied that fetuses should not be granted the right to life due to the fact that they rely on the mother for sustenance.

OK. I'll accept that. As long as one being's existence depends 100% on a person, that person should have the right to allow it or not. Yes, that is my position. To give a fetus the right to life would create a situation in which a woman's rights to her very person would be violated.

Then surely you agree that a man can't be forced to provide and support a woman's choice....right?

According to current law, a man CAN be legally forced, but you're right. I would actually support a 'male abortion' and have talked about it extensively here. I'm an equal opportunity pro-choicer!

reply to post by blackmetalmist


I guess I need to know what form of birth control is 100% effective then.
Are you hiding it?

Originally posted by MamaJ
Just because I wouldn't does not mean that another woman will feel the same way. It is her choice once she is raped or if her life will be threatened with a full term pregnancy.

I always find it interesting that people make this allowance for rape. Why can't this be extended to abortion in general?

YOU feel that a fetus is a life.
YOU feel that abortion is murder.

But to use YOUR words: Just because you feel that way, doesn't mean another woman will feel the same way. It's HER choice.

Originally posted by Kitilani
reply to post by blackmetalmist

 

I guess I need to know what form of birth control is 100% effective then.
Are you hiding it?

There isn't a birth control that's 100% effective. However, proper use and using two forms should be more than enough. Anyone who is educated in Sex Health should know that pregnancy along with various STD's are possible with any type of sexual contact. If your condom breaks or if you forgot to take the Pill, go get the morning after pill. Simple as that. If you are going to have unprotected sex, beware of the consequences that may bring. You're gambling with danger. I'd rather take preventative measures as oppose to a lifetime of regret and bad decisions.

Originally posted by MamaJ
The right of the woman? The subject is not the woman...she is fine. She is living....she is not the one being killed!

Being pregnant alone is a huge threat to her life. More women die from pregnancy complications than abortions. She is not fine. She is being slowly killed from the fetus inside of her.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


There is NO accountability in the case of RAPE. That is the only scenario (I can think of) where the woman didn't choose to be put in a situation where she *could* become pregnant. What's so hard about this, it's not rocket science. And what's so hard about birth control pills or condoms etc?? Sheesh.

reply to post by Kitilani


I'm sure your mother thinks the same about you...... Only difference is you are still slowly eating away at her life!

The arguement seems to be that the woman can choose to kill your child simply because it just so happens to be inside of her. The woman doesnt even need to tell you that she killed your child either. The courts always rule on the side of the woman and even when the kid is born the woman will still always get custody of the child over the father. Nobody talks about single fathers that raise their kids on their because the woman is a drug addict or simply walked out. Women actually can walk out on their children and not have to pay a dime.

Men have no rights to their own children and even when they do sacrafise everything nobody cares. For some strange reason people think thats okay.

Originally posted by Wookiep
There is NO accountability in the case of RAPE.

So, forcing a woman to bear a child is your idea of making her accountable for her actions. I see. And I disagree. To me, choosing to have an abortion when she doesn't want a child IS being accountable for her actions.

And what's so hard about birth control pills or condoms etc??

Nothing. There's nothing hard about them at all. But not all people use them and they don't always work.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Wookiep
There is NO accountability in the case of RAPE.

So, forcing a woman to bear a child is your idea of making her accountable for her actions. I see. And I disagree. To me, choosing to have an abortion when she doesn't want a child IS being accountable for her actions.

And what's so hard about birth control pills or condoms etc??

Nothing. There's nothing hard about them at all. But not all people use them and they don't always work.

You act like birth control is the man's sole responsibility. The man didnt use a condom and now the woman is pregnant. Its not her fault that she didnt use the pill. No its the fault of the man. The woman then can choose if the man becomes a father or not and if the father doesnt agree he will simply be labeled scum and thrown in prison. If the woman doesnt choose to become a mother though she can just go KILL the man's child and not even tell him. The woman chose not to be on the pill and became pregant. Now deal with your responsiblity that your lack of action caused.

There should be no case where it is accetable to use abortion. There is a very long list of people that actually want to adopt children. Some will even pay you to have the child. The doctors that have actually done abortions should be thrown in prison for murder. Oh its not murder? Then why when a pregant woman is killed is the murderer charged with 2 deaths regardless of how far along she is?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yeah, this is just going to end up as a circular debate. You'd rather give women who willingly put themselves in a scenario to get pregnant the right to kill off their child. I got it, and I disagree. Btw, birth control is very effective if used properly. Let's not bust out the graphs but it's common knowledge that even condoms have extremely high success rates. Perhaps we should spend more time educating and less time killing kids so that women can feel "entitled".

I ask any of you

What business is it of yours?

Don't any of you have respect for the private nature of sex and family?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Do you have the right to life? Did you always have the right to life? Apparently not by your own views.

You know, why stop at the current definition of abortion.. There are conditions that I might agree to a woman having a choice...

If she is murdered the assailant is only charged with one murder as the fetal tape worm is not alive.

Why stop at Abortions in the womb.. If she has the right to choose whether or not to keep her child then perhaps it should extend beyond the womb... Heck a toddler could still loosely be defined as a parasite as "it" is still completely reliant upon the mother for nutrition, disposal of waste, shelter etc etc.

Perhaps we should let a mother choose to terminate their parenthood at any time.. Why not? It's their choice right! We'll call it.. post pardom abortion.

Obviously you do not support the brains being sucked out of a one year old even though they cannot yet speak nor comprehend the complexity of life... A one year old cannot defend itself verbally in a court of law.. Perhaps since they do not have a relevant level of consciousness maybe they shouldn't be considered human life either! Ever heard the phrase "I brought you into this world I can take you out of it?

I'm sure you consider this line of thinking laughable as I do.. but in reality it's not much different...

You too were once a bunch of cells and by those standards today are just an overdeveloped mutated fetus..

The paradox is the fetus is only worth a sh*t when the mother wants it to be.

In my mind, either it is life or it isn't life. I don't really care either way, as I am incapable of birthing children as a male. It's the having it both ways thing that confuses me.

Hell is many states, if a fetus is killed in a car crash, the defendant can be charged with anything from manslaughter to murder. Okay fine. Let's say the fetus survives said car crash and the mother aborts it the next day. Well, in my eyes, by charging the defendant with manslaughter, you are implying that the fetus can be represented by the legal system as a living being. But when the mother 'gets rid of it", it isn't?

Like I said, as a male, I will never worry about having an abortion. But make up your mind. Either it IS life or it ISN'T.

Originally posted by e11888
You act like birth control is the man's sole responsibility.

Excuse me? Can you people read? The FACT is that I believe birth control is the WOMAN'S responsibility, because she is the one who has to deal with the consequences. Now... Where did I 'act like' birth control was the man's responsibility???

The sentence you quoted was in response to BC pills and condoms.

There is a very long list of people that actually want to adopt children. Some will even pay you to have the child.

Are you telling me that I shouldn't have the choice to risk my life??? Pregnancy is a huge risk with many possible complications. Just because someone PAYS me, doesn't mean I'm going to or should risk my life when I don't want to.

reply to post by Janky Red


I think Infanticide like Genocide is everyone's business..

You don't hear people saying the holocaust is none of your business...

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Yeah, this is just going to end up as a circular debate. You'd rather give women who willingly put themselves in a scenario to get pregnant the right to kill off their child. I got it, and I disagree. Btw, birth control is very effective if used properly. Let's not bust out the graphs but it's common knowledge that even condoms have an extremely high success rates. Perhaps we should spend more time educating and less on killing kids so that women can feel "entitled".

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

How is it your business?

Why don't you look after your own junk and let people make familial decisions on their own?