What Does Abortion Have To Do With Pro-Choice?

Originally posted by MamaJ
I keep hearing woman, womans choice, womans body.....WOMAN, WOMAN, WOMAN....Ok I think we ALL GET IT.

I would like to hear about the FETUS's choice.....when does it have a voice to decide?

Anyone want to argue "life" is when...or life is when..????

Reality is.....If it grows....it is ALIVE. It is alive however it is still in development as it is when it is born and every day life is given...it grows. So....my question is...

Does a woman have the right to call the shots of her unborn? If so.... what about the woman who kill's her 5 year old. They do have a voice now...but is it not the womans choice to decide whether or not she should allow the child to live if it is hampering her life? She lost her job, she can't afford the kid....so is it still ok to kill the kid? If not....please explain why.

If she is raped and has the kid but later decides to kill it..is that ok too? If not, why?

Is it only ok to kill the unborn because one cannot see the "life" in it?

Is it only ok to kill if it doesn't speak to say IM ALIVE?

It is alive when it can ______________??

I debated this issue when I was in High School and it is a touchy one!

Anytime a child is involved there will always be someone speaking for the child who cannot be heard. One can get mad all day long....it still is a "good" thing people do speak up for our children.

And lastly, why in the world does some people have to play the "religious" hand? Can a person not care for the child and not be labeled as anything but a caring person?

Some of the replys on here are just reaching! Get over the religious card....please!

mamamija, ridiculous, I even do not want to discuss it here any longer .....
compare a abortion with a murdering of a living born child, are you a teapotstupid crazy or what ???
completely out of orbit, gone into the dark

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
My house, My Home, My Choice, I can kill anyone who enters my home even if I invite them?

Are you asking me this question? The answer is no. You can not legally kill anyone who enters your home. Next?

Murder is murder, now if you want to argue that it's not murder then make that point.

"Murder" is a legal term. Murder is illegal. Abortion is legal. Therefore, abortion is NOT murder. Is abortion taking a life? Absolutely.

But if you understand that some people consider abortion murder then you should have no reason to be unable to understand why BOTH men AND WOMEN are against abortion.

I understand that some people consider abortion murder. That's fine with me. They can think whatever they like. I suggest these people exercise their CHOICE not to have abortions. I know men and women are against abortion. They shouldn't have them, then.

I am not anti-choice, I am extremely pro choice, everything about me is pro-choice.

Definition: Pro-Choice

Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.

But as mentioned, pro-choice means you are not harming another person's body, only your own.

Well, if you're going to change the definition of words, then it's going to be hard to have a discussion. Pro-choice has a specific meaning. Your position seems to be that you are "pro-choice" as long as you agree with the choice...

The debate is really heating up, I am laughing my hart out, some of you are very funning while others are very fundamentalist in their views.

Has many of you realized that regulating women reproductive body parts is nothing but forcing submisive slavery by law. The repercussion of such and act will not only affect and demorilized women but also can be apply to men also.

Still is a slipery slope to regulate women's womb to get to the fetus because you can not get to the fetus without getting to the womb first. They are not two separate items, they go together.

Logic poeple, stop using emotions and used logic.

Anyway opinions are like rear ends openings we all have one.

Originally posted by Charmed707
The issue has nothing to do with your body. It's about the fetus and the right to life. How can someone be so narcissistic as to think their desire to be free from responsibility should take precedence over anyone else's life? THAT makes me sick.

Your attitude is the same as someone saying "I may own slaves if I choose to, but don't push your morality on me".

thank you

I wish I could applause and bookmark your comment

Originally posted by marg6043
The debate is really heating up, I am laughing my hart out, some of you are very funning while others are very fundamentalist in their views.

Has many of you realized that regulating women reproductive body parts is nothing but forcing submisive slavery by law. The repercussion of such and act will not only affect and demorilized women but also can be apply to men also.

Still is a slipery slope to regulate women's womb to get to the fetus because you can not get to the fetus without getting to the womb first. They are not two separate items, they go together.

Logic poeple, stop using emotions and used logic.

Anyway opinions are like real ends openings we all have one.

the debate has to heat up ! it really has !! we are in 2011 and still people do not understand what it's all about ??
do we really have to discuss this untill 2111 ???
when will some try to understand the problem ??
if a man gets fu**ked / raped by another bast**rd man ( let your imagination go please ) and should get pregnant, do you really think he would discuss abortion to get rid of his baby ???
no sure, but if it is a woman, then everybody wants to tell her what she has to do or not !!!
crazy world anyway, teapotpissing ideas !!

reply to post by marg6043


Well marg I'm glad you think your mother and you are two separate individuals now that you are old enough to understand the difference..

However if your mother had chose to abort you then you as an individual would have been killed before you had a chance to come onto this board and tell us your mother had a right to kill you before you were born. But since you were not aborted here you are telling us that other mothers can kill their children before they have the ability to know the difference.. Because those fetuses as you call them would eventually grow up into fully functioning people with their own name, opinions, thoughts, agendas, emotions, wants, needs and ambitions. Yet you think someone's mother should be able to decide whether or not that person should be allowed to exist at all...

You say it's not a person, but that's what a fetus becomes... a fully living, breathing, thinking individual. Just like you and me..

If you were pregnant in any stage and I were to kill you.. I would be charged with two murders...

Perhaps I would be a bit more accepting if an individual were charged with one as apparently the fetus is not a human..

According to a lot of "Pro-Abortion" peoples an unborn child is held with the same regard as a tapeworm... a useless parasite that does nothing but feed off of you and should be considered nothing more.

I would have to disagree with the highest level of zeal I can muster.

Of course like most people on ATS you will most likely only read 10% of this reply anyway....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Are you asking me this question? The answer is no. You can not legally kill anyone who enters your home. Next?

Thank You
you are now against abortion! Congrats!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Is abortion taking a life? Absolutely.

Ok so abortion is taking a life and murder also means taking a life
excellent, thank you

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I understand that some people consider abortion murder. That's fine with me. They can think whatever they like. I suggest these people exercise their CHOICE not to have abortions.

I know men and women are against abortion. They shouldn't have them, then.

So if people don't like murder then they shouldn't murder?
But if you want to murder than it's up to you?

See that doesn't make any sense

There is nothing positive about bailing out promiscuitity or irresponsibility.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


I have no idea what your rant is about. Perhaps you should re-read my post. It seems we agree, yet you rant at me... Strange...

Originally posted by MamaJ
I would like to hear about the FETUS's choice.....when does it have a voice to decide?

Certainly not while it's a fetus.

Anyone want to argue "life" is when...or life is when..????

Nope. Life begins at conception.

Reality is.....If it grows....it is ALIVE.

Yes. So is cancer.

So....my question is...

Does a woman have the right to call the shots of her unborn? If so.... what about the woman who kill's her 5 year old. They do have a voice now...but is it not the womans choice to decide whether or not she should allow the child to live if it is hampering her life? She lost her job, she can't afford the kid....so is it still ok to kill the kid? If not....please explain why.

A 5-year-old is a PERSON and as such, has legal rights, one being the right to life. A fetus is not a person.

Originally posted by marg6043

the reality of the issue is that we the female of the species have the power to control what goes into our bodies and what doesn't

This statement is very telling as to the pro-choice mindset of feminists. You NEED the option of abortion in order to feel 'empowered'. This is why you would feel victimized if women did not have the option of deciding whether another human being will live or die, all the while telling men it's "none of their business". You feel as if it's the ultimate power a person can have....one that women have been granted, but not men. Pathetic.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


I don't think anyone would disagree with you when it comes to a woman having an abortion when rape or other extreme circumstances are involved. (ok, there's 1 here ) I really don't know why you have been pushing it so much because the answer is simply, most people agree with you there.

It's 2011 and yep, we're still talking about it. Maybe we're still talking about it because people still cannot in good conscience try to justify a mother terminating (under most circumstances it's because they are too young, financially unstable etc) her son/daughter's life because they made a "bad choice" and don't want to take responsibility for that choice. There are other alternatives EVEN when the mother has no means to financially take care of said son/daughter. Again, maybe we're still talking about it because it IS still an issue.

mamamija, ridiculous, I even do not want to discuss it here any longer ..... compare a abortion with a murdering of a living born child, are you a teapotstupid crazy or what ??? completely out of orbit, gone into the dark

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


Hey.....if we are going to compare....lets compare apples to apples. Get over the feel good I AM WOMAN, hear me roar BS.

A LIFE....is just that.... A LIFE.

Whether it is 1 week, 1 year, or 100.....it is a life.

If you do not want to discuss it....ok. I don't care.

"Living born child" is a living UNborn child before "birth"....how does that NOT make sense to you? The difference is it is not out in the world....the womb is protected from the world while it GROWS!! While it is growing outside the womb it is bonding and personality shows. For this reason it is NOT ok to kill the child.

So it is not ok to kill the child outside the womb....only in it? I just wanted to be clear on where some of the posters stand in regards to life. Got it from you....thanks!

Me? In orbit? In the dark? Yeah.....I think it is time you move along from this thread if you cannot debate without getting all upset.

reply to post by DaMod


Dear do not try to play with my emotions my daughter now is 27 so see I am not a young vulnerable girl my mother did her job, now I am doing mine, and lets thank God we enjoy the freedom of choice.

Hopefully just like my grandmother that is still alive and will tell you to mind you own business, she burned her bra before the 40s, my mother burned her in the 50s, thanks to them I will be here to see my grandchild enjoy her freedom to chose also.

We all women in our family were the products of love and good parenting, just like my daughter is also, intelligent enough to understand that women no always had it this easy and we are not giving up, we will make sure that the next generation have their feedoms too. Hallelujah

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well I agree to disagree with you.

A fetus is a baby and it holds life, otherwise it would not GROW.

Only living things GROW.

Grow....alive

Not grow.....dead


Kill a baby in the womb is to kill a baby outside the womb the only difference is people feel better about the termination of life (kill) when they cannot hear it, see it, or love it much less name it.

Originally posted by Charmed707
A fetus is a separate entity from the mother.

OK. Then it should be just fine without my body...

I know far more pro-life women than men....and it IS their business. It's THEIR child whose life you dictate.

I'm not dictating their child's life! THEIR child's life is none of my business! THEIR choice is none of my business. And vice versa.

The issue has nothing to do with your body. It's about the fetus and the right to life.

A fetus doesn't have a right to life. Rights belong to PEOPLE. Of a pregnant woman (a person) and a fetus, whose rights are protected? The PERSON'S.

Your attitude is the same as someone saying "I may own slaves if I choose to, but don't push your morality on me".

Slaves are PEOPLE, and have rights. Slavery is illegal.

What you don't seem to understand is that for choices you make, there are consequences...consequences that can't always be simply 'killed off'.

I totally understand the consequences of my choices.

A pregnant woman is in the position she is in because of the choices she made.

Yes. And the consequence is that she has a choice to make. But she does have the choice. And should.

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit

Originally posted by marg6043
The debate is really heating up, I am laughing my hart out, some of you are very funning while others are very fundamentalist in their views.

Has many of you realized that regulating women reproductive body parts is nothing but forcing submisive slavery by law. The repercussion of such and act will not only affect and demorilized women but also can be apply to men also.

Still is a slipery slope to regulate women's womb to get to the fetus because you can not get to the fetus without getting to the womb first. They are not two separate items, they go together.

Logic poeple, stop using emotions and used logic.

Anyway opinions are like real ends openings we all have one.

the debate has to heat up ! it really has !! we are in 2011 and still people do not understand what it's all about ??
do we really have to discuss this untill 2111 ???
when will some try to understand the problem ??
if a man gets fu**ked / raped by another bast**rd man ( let your imagination go please ) and should get pregnant, do you really think he would discuss abortion to get rid of his baby ???
no sure, but if it is a woman, then everybody wants to tell her what she has to do or not !!!
crazy world anyway, teapotpissing ideas !!

It is not about the man anymore....it is about the life that is living inside the man now. The innocence of a child holds no wrong doing of the rapist. It is innocent and there has to come a time when you stop thinking of yourself and become responsible and think about the life that is indeed growing.

I have not had to go through anything like that and never will. My tubes are tied now but I can tell you what my heart would say. A bad thing happened....and now something "good" will become of it. A child.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


well no, I agree with you of course, my reply is a push up for your reply !! it's like I answer together with you ...
I see what you mean, it's like I am arguing against you ..
sorry as I am french speaking, not american or english, so sometimes it's a bit more difficult for me to be aware of the " finesses " in the discussion ....

STOP THE DICTATORS ! STOP THE MACHO-PENIS-BRAINS !
I have lol with this heating up discussions, teapotpartypissingmacho thinking versus 21° century free thinking, human world versus neo-liberal, neo-capitalist slavery world etc etc ....

A fetus doesn't have a right to life.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Once the sperm meets the egg ......life begins. It begins to grow because it is ALIVE and right before the ninth week (about a month) the living "thing" has a head, arms, legs, and so on. Is that a person to you? Or is it still just a fetus who has no right to life? Just askin'.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Sunlionspirit

Originally posted by marg6043
The debate is really heating up, I am laughing my hart out, some of you are very funning while others are very fundamentalist in their views.

Has many of you realized that regulating women reproductive body parts is nothing but forcing submisive slavery by law. The repercussion of such and act will not only affect and demorilized women but also can be apply to men also.

Still is a slipery slope to regulate women's womb to get to the fetus because you can not get to the fetus without getting to the womb first. They are not two separate items, they go together.

Logic poeple, stop using emotions and used logic.

Anyway opinions are like real ends openings we all have one.

the debate has to heat up ! it really has !! we are in 2011 and still people do not understand what it's all about ??
do we really have to discuss this untill 2111 ???
when will some try to understand the problem ??
if a man gets fu**ked / raped by another bast**rd man ( let your imagination go please ) and should get pregnant, do you really think he would discuss abortion to get rid of his baby ???
no sure, but if it is a woman, then everybody wants to tell her what she has to do or not !!!
crazy world anyway, teapotpissing ideas !!

It is not about the man anymore....it is about the life that is living inside the man now. The innocence of a child holds no wrong doing of the rapist. It is innocent and there has to come a time when you stop thinking of yourself and become responsible and think about the life that is indeed growing.

I have not had to go through anything like that and never will. My tubes are tied now but I can tell you what my heart would say. A bad thing happened....and now something "good" will become of it. A child.

well, ok for you then, what do you want me to say here ??? if you are happy, well that's fantastic !!
you feel good, you want to love the fruit of your raping ???
you must be a very strong woman !!! I congratulate your choice !! you must be very very christian to love the evil done to you .... and see the child as a gift ... but I have difficulty to believe your story ..
anyway,
that is not a reason to say another woman has to be happy in the same circumstances !!
that is NOT a reason to make it more difficult for another woman and forbid her to get better having an abortion ...
I feel happy for you, ok ?? so let's speak now about the others that are NOT happy at all !!!

reply to post by MamaJ

I have not had to go through anything like that and never will. My tubes are tied now but I can tell you what my heart would say. A bad thing happened....and now something "good" will become of it. A child.

OMG mamaj..I can't believe you are saying that a woman should have child that was created through rape?...and that is your reasoning..well something bad happened ..now lets have something good happen? Right..a child born to a poor mother..who can't afford to feed it properly..and every time she looks at her child she sees the face of her rapist ,and relives the torment?

What can possibly be good about this scenario..and quite frankly.. it will do nothing for a child's self esteem to find out it was a product of rape.. and his or hers father is a rapist.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


I used to enjoy heated discussions like this, I remember we used to have a Mod pit forum, used to get so bad you will not survive, but that was before ATS became so popular that certain groups started to used it to promote agendas.

Now I post in this type of topics but I don't take it as seriously as did before.

I guess you learn that some agendas are just that agendas, reasoning is no a choice.