Israel Objects to Palestinian Statehood to Avoid War Crimes Investigations

Israel Objects to Palestinian Statehood to Avoid War Crimes Investigations

news.antiwar.com

A secret State Department diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks has revealed that one of the primary reasons behind Israeli objections to Palestinian statehood is that lack of statehood keeps Palestinian territories outside the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC), which prosecutes war crime.

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Never had thought about one of primary reasons to the opposition to Palestine statehood could be to avoid International Criminal Court (ICC). But I guess "legalities" is less important the moral issues of inaction.

Other piace of information is about a UAV attack in Gaza that killed 2 militant of Hamas that were next to a mosque... and 16 civilians had been killed because a door was open. What the hell IDF was thinking to attack someone who was close to some place so crowded with civilians. This show how IDF don't give a damn to attack anywhere even if the collateral damage is so obvious.

I don't get why people still say the Wikileaks cables are not important.

news.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

S&F for you good sir,

Yea the 200+ UN resolutions concerning Israel and its other actions in the past few year (white phosphorus AHEM) would have more weight if Palestine gained statehood in the region.

This seems to be a likely reason to keep that the peace talks only go so far and then BAM retaliatory attack with a multi-million dollar bomb or missile for someone throwing rocks or a radical group not linked to their govt.

reply to post by blackcube


Well being the ICC is not a part of the UN, nor does it have any jurisdiction in countries who are not signatories to the treaty I find the reason given lacking in base and facts.

Secondly, all they need to do is the exact same thing Iran, Syria and Hezbullah do, which is to just ignore the UN. Nothing has happened to those countries, so nothing will happen to Israel.

If anyone is wondering about the Hezzbullah comment, research the results of the Harari probe and their response to it.

Also, the UN fact finding mission for the 2006 war between Israel and Lebanon found both sides violted international law, including the charge of war cries against both sides.

Originally posted by blackcube


Never had thought about one of primary reasons to the opposition to Palestine statehood could be to avoid International Criminal Court (ICC). But I guess "legalities" is less important the moral issues of inaction.

Other piace of information is about a UAV attack in Gaza that killed 2 militant of Hamas that were next to a mosque... and 16 civilians had been killed because a door was open. What the hell IDF was thinking to attack someone who was close to some place so crowded with civilians. This show how IDF don't give a damn to attack anywhere even if the collateral damage is so obvious.

I don't get why people still say the Wikileaks cables are not important.

news.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

What about the innocent civilians maimed and killed by islamic rocket and homicide attacks? Be real. Hamas and the other jihadists hide among the civilians just so people like you will condemn the Israelis for daring to defend themselves. Try to find a clue somewhere.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I suggest you read this file from the icc

www.icc-cpi.int...

It basically states that to proceed with any formal investigations under the Rome Statute of 1998 that Palestinian statehood is a must

From the icc themselves

On 22 January 2009, the Palestinian National Authority lodged a declaration with the Registrar under Article 12(3) of the Rome Statute which allows States not party to the Statute to accept the Court’s jurisdiction. The OTP will examine issues related to its jurisdiction: first whether the declaration accepting the exercise of jurisdiction by the Court meets statutory requirements; and second whether crimes within the Court’s jurisdiction have been committed. The Office will also consider whether there are national proceedings in relation to alleged crimes. A delegation from the Palestinian National Authority, and Representatives of the Arab League visited the Court on 15‐16 October 2009 to present a report in support of the PNA’s ability to delegate its jurisdiction to the ICC. On 11 January, the OTP sent a letter summarizing its activities to the United Nations at their request,. On 3 May, the OTP published a “Summary of submissions on whether the declaration lodged by the Palestinian National Authority meets statutory requirements.” The OTP has not made any determination on the issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but statehood DOES seem to be the issue.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by blackcube

 

Well being the ICC is not a part of the UN, nor does it have any jurisdiction in countries who are not signatories to the treaty I find the reason given lacking in base and facts.

Secondly, all they need to do is the exact same thing Iran, Syria and Hezbullah do, which is to just ignore the UN. Nothing has happened to those countries, so nothing will happen to Israel.

If anyone is wondering about the Hezzbullah comment, research the results of the Harari probe and their response to it.

Also, the UN fact finding mission for the 2006 war between Israel and Lebanon found both sides violted international law, including the charge of war cries against both sides.

Their response to it was they would not allow themselves to be forced into a rushed judgement. The whole case stinks of another CIA undercover mission.

reply to post by GhettoRice


Ive read all about the ICC and its governing doctrine is it has NO jusrisdiction in countries who are not signatories to the treaty. The Rome accords introduced the concept of universal jurisdiction, however it does not change the fact that Israel is not an ICC member, making any action by the ICC a violation of its own charter.

Statehood for Palestinians will require more than just the vote. The vote is not a creation of a palestinian state, its to gain support for the creation of one.

reply to post by buster2010


Actually no, their response was to tell anyone who agreed with the report they would be executed as a collaborator working for Israel and the US.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by blackcube


Never had thought about one of primary reasons to the opposition to Palestine statehood could be to avoid International Criminal Court (ICC). But I guess "legalities" is less important the moral issues of inaction.

Other piace of information is about a UAV attack in Gaza that killed 2 militant of Hamas that were next to a mosque... and 16 civilians had been killed because a door was open. What the hell IDF was thinking to attack someone who was close to some place so crowded with civilians. This show how IDF don't give a damn to attack anywhere even if the collateral damage is so obvious.

I don't get why people still say the Wikileaks cables are not important.

news.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

What about the innocent civilians maimed and killed by islamic rocket and homicide attacks? Be real. Hamas and the other jihadists hide among the civilians just so people like you will condemn the Israelis for daring to defend themselves.

Try to find a clue somewhere.

You might want to look for a clue yourself. The Palestinians are the defenders here not the Israeli's. Israel is the one that is stealing land and killing families while they are doing so that makes Israel the aggressors.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I do see what your saying but with all the legal mubo jumbo this comes out

Israel may be regarded as holding competing title for Palestinian territories in a sense that inflicts on the latter’s claim for sole sovereignty. Within the doctrine, there remains the hypothetical question concerning the possible future joinder of Israel to the Rome Statute. In particular, there is value, albeit speculative, in considering the implications of Israel’s reluctance to join the ICC and the parallel scenario in which the Palestinian Authority would unilaterally act to joinder Israel. On both accounts it was argued in this article that the power to act against Israel was legally questionable.

What I see as a possibility is that with ended Peace talks Palestine could gain statehood through Non-Publicly stated material and thus trough joining the ICC would cause joinder in the Rome Statue.

Again I see this as a possibility not certain


(btw I hold no bias to either side, both have their good and bad, as in my neck of the woods and all over the world.)

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by buster2010

 

Actually no, their response was to tell anyone who agreed with the report they would be executed as a collaborator working for Israel and the US.

Out of all the articles I've read about this I've seen none of what you said. Could you provide a link please.

reply to post by blackcube


Hey Black Cube -

You have brought up many interesting points on this thread -

Since the UN is poised to meet very soon (in Sept) and vote on the Issue of Palestinian Nationhood - it will result in the pre-planned invasion by the IDF of Gaza - with the express purpose of 'exterminating Hamas' - we can look for some of the most inhumane extermination policies against the Palestinian civilian population to be soon perpetrated by the now inhumane Israeli army - comparable to virtual genocidal slaughter of Palestinian civilians beginning in1948...

The plan on the table (acccording to other some highly placed diplomatic wiki-leaks) is to wipe out more than 350,000 Palestinian civilians in Gaza as soon as the pre-planned invasion starts following the vote in the UN passes the issue of Palestinian Statehood - which means the current Israeli government under 'Bird Brained ('call me BB') Nuttin Honey' already has a detailed 'genocidal' military IDF agenda planned to the nth degree on the table which will start with blistering blitzkriegs from aerial bombing of 'targets' especially hospitals, schools, libraries, power plants and 'Palestinian cultural centres' - in order to 'break their resolve to nationhood'

But, since the IDF cannot possibly 'wipe out Hamas' without an invasion 'on the ground' it will mean thousands of Israeli Defence Military Forces ON THE GROUND invading the Gaza Strip - using tanks, poison gas, the latest in American imported Nerve gas, new electro particle bombardments, as well as high powered Rifles & sharpened Bayonets etc. to be used mainly as Terror weaponry against the Palestinian population - be on the look out for several hundred thousand dead - and heavy casualties on the Israeli side as well (so much for BB's future career in Politics after that !)

It will be up to the UN and to 'camera-ready, video-phone-alert' Palestinian citizens ON THE GROUND to PHOTOGRAPH andd RECORD each and every single one of these future IDF ATROCITIES in REAL TIME as they certainly will occur when it happens and post it on YOU TUBE - and via any other medium in order to get the evidence out to the general 'fact starved' worldwide public especially in the US, whose news is heavilly censored on this subject.

Since after all, the 'deliberately dumbed down' major-American Broadcast news-Media cartels will NOT be showing any of it at all (not surprisingly perhaps - since the American media is virtually owned by pro-zionist-leaning global corporate Conglomerate giants e.g. General Eletric, Viacom-Vivendi, AOL-Time-Warner, the Murdoch Cartels (e.g. Fox etc.) & Disney, all publically traded Wall Street giants who have been deliberately blind to past Israeli Defence Forces atrocities against the Palesinian civilian population both in Gaza and in the West Bank 'for fear of investment backlashes...' .

What the Israeli's fear most is NOT the Gun - it fears the Video Camera -

So (as always) it will be up to the Palestinian civilian population to stock up on high res photographic equipment in advance of the coming planned 'IDF atrocities which are currently being planned.

The world MUST know every single thing the IDF does from now on to Palestinian civilians -without editing the raw facts on the ground as has been the case thousands of times in the past...

reply to post by blackcube


it could also allow Palestine to call in UN Peacekeepers to control the occupied zones currently controlled by Israel..
Maybe even forcing the Israeli settlers out as they are NOT there for any military purpose..

Israel certainly doesn't want that to happen..

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by blackcube


Never had thought about one of primary reasons to the opposition to Palestine statehood could be to avoid International Criminal Court (ICC). But I guess "legalities" is less important the moral issues of inaction.

Other piace of information is about a UAV attack in Gaza that killed 2 militant of Hamas that were next to a mosque... and 16 civilians had been killed because a door was open. What the hell IDF was thinking to attack someone who was close to some place so crowded with civilians. This show how IDF don't give a damn to attack anywhere even if the collateral damage is so obvious.

I don't get why people still say the Wikileaks cables are not important.

news.antiwar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

What about the innocent civilians maimed and killed by islamic rocket and homicide attacks? Be real. Hamas and the other jihadists hide among the civilians just so people like you will condemn the Israelis for daring to defend themselves.

Try to find a clue somewhere.

You might want to look for a clue yourself. The Palestinians are the defenders here not the Israeli's. Israel is the one that is stealing land and killing families while they are doing so that makes Israel the aggressors.

Palestine never officially existed so how is Israel stealing there land? I don't like how Israel has handled the situation from day 1(60 years and running) but still I think you are jumping to the wrong conclusions villifying Israel for war crimes when all they do is retaliate to arab aggression.

reply to post by backinblack


UN Peacekeepers are only there to OBSERVE and have no right to get involved in any clashes nor to protect the very people in the nation they are observing.

You people really need an education on what the purpose of what UN peacekeepers do.....which is basically NOTHING.

You will NEVER see one single UN peacekeeper on Israeli or Palestinian soil; neither want them.

reply to post by bluemirage5


never say never, things change..

Israel doesn't care about war crimes investigations. They are lunatics.
They have robbed and killed the native "Palestinians" for decades...a half century or more.
There is no authority higher than Israel. There is NO court that can try Israel. They are all illegitimate.
The only legitimate court is public opinion, and even in that court they can just say "screw you".
And they will.
And there will be consequences.
And based upon the ATS demographics, YOU will see the day when Israel gets their due.
It is coming. It is destiny.

I never thought of that either, but it makes perfect sense, considering what Israel has done to the Palestinian people.

Originally posted by blackcube
What the hell IDF was thinking to attack someone who was close to some place so crowded with civilians. This show how IDF don't give a damn to attack anywhere even if the collateral damage is so obvious.

So once again we have terrorists using civilians as human shields, but some people refuse to put the blame on the terrorists, they just blame Israel!