Christianity has lost its astronomical roots.for now!

Originally posted by underspace

Originally posted by Klassified
No reconciliation needed. The church as an entity existed long before the catholic church came into being. They may be the largest, considering all the blood they spilled to get that way. But they aren't the first or only.

I understand that. That was not the point I was making. Are you sure they are not the first (we are talking about Christianity are we not?) . A reconciliation is needed. A Church as an entity did, but did a Christian Church as an entity?

Are you familiar with the history...the Council of Nicea, the formation of the canon? I am not saying they are the only...silly you would say that if you're reading what I wrote.

The majority of Christian denominations today use the same Bible (King James, NIV, etc), a canon decided by the Roman Catholic Church.

Acknowledging that religion or the church existed prior to its formation is not relevant. It was brought up that Catholics are not to be confused with Christians, yet the vast majority of today's Christian denominations use that standard RCC canon.

NIV
en.wikipedia.org...

NIV Publisher
Is Zondervan Evil, a publisher of NIV Bible
1voicecrying.wordpress.com...

Do you trust a teaching pushed by Rupert Murdoch?

Originally posted by MasterGemini
reply to post by underspace

 

Then you do not understand the very basics of the faith.

I know what faith means. I do not have the faith you speak of. Nor do I see how my lack of faith would invalidate the points I have brought up so far?.... Would appreciate a little more specifics instead of the personal attacks.

Yet Roman Catholics pray to saints and pray the Hail Mary

You can make points like these to distinguish a distinct difference between RCC and other denominations if you will. Fair enough. That however is not nearly as strong as a point as I am making. Are you disagreeing that modern Christians use the canon that was decided in the Council of Nicea?

As you admitted you are not religious and as such I don't expect you to know what you are talking about.

Not all religious scholars are religious themselves. Again, I don't see where faith comes into the very basic points being made.

However, if you don't know what you are talking about you should probably not comment until you are better researched.

If I copy and past a bunch of scripture for you, will you play nice? Is that what it takes to "know what I am talking about". Is that research?

reply to post by knightsofcydonia

Christianity has lost its astronomical roots.for now!

I am a Christian. Not a card-carrying type, mind you. I don't mix politics and I am not inclined to follow the various baitings offered on this site.

But that being said, I don't feel connected to astronomy. I mean, I believe that God crated (Edit: 'crated' sounds good, lol! *created) the universe and I am comfortable with that belief alongside science, pagans, homogenized dairy products and even atheists.

But I am not terribly into the procession except for its potential effect on the planet as a whole... hich I think is a major player that has been largely overlooked.

Thanks

Originally posted by MasterGemini

NIV
en.wikipedia.org...

NIV Publisher
Is Zondervan Evil, a publisher of NIV Bible
1voicecrying.wordpress.com...

Do you trust a teaching pushed by Rupert Murdoch?

Sigh.

For one I don't 'trust' any of it. I do not have the faith.

Secondly if I did I would not trust the NIV or the KJ or any other 'translation'. If I truly believed in the Bible I would take it upon myself to learn Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic so I could read the original....

Originally posted by underspace

Originally posted by MasterGemini
reply to post by underspace

 

Then you do not understand the very basics of the faith.

I know what faith means. I do not have the faith you speak of. Nor do I see how my lack of faith would invalidate the points I have brought up so far?.... Would appreciate a little more specifics instead of the personal attacks.

Note that I said THE FAITH not saying anything about your faith. I apologize if I offended you.

How many "Christians" that you know actually know anything about the history of their "faith" or religious text?
See. . . .

The RC Bible was in Latin, NO ONE spoke Latin at the time other than the priests who could then deceive the public whom did not speak the language.

Remember this all started hundreds of years ago when the internet didn't exist.

Here is a modern example of what they did.

Wash Your Brain - Hollywood Mind Control
www.youtube.com...
From ancient goddesses to Lady Gaga, culture creation is the method of rulers to keep children fighting wars. Jamie and Freeman join Wash Your Brain to open the doors to occult rituals in Hollywood laying bare the propaganda techniques to help guide our youth out of the black magic spell.

Originally posted by MasterGemini

Note that I said THE FAITH not saying anything about your faith.

How many "Christians" that you know actually know anything about the history of their "faith" or religious text?
See. . . .

Very little.

If that's what faith means to YOU then okay. Personally faith to me also includes that understanding. Again I don't see the importance of this. People are saying Catholics are not Christians, yet Christians (most of the denominations/churches) use their canon. It's very simple. Perhaps my logic is getting in the way.

The RC Bible was in Latin, NO ONE spoke Latin at the time other than the priests who could then deceive the public whom did not speak the language.

It was written in Hebrew, Koine Greek, and Aramaic.... it was later translated to Latin.

If you don't know what you're talking about perhaps you should research before the next comment

Remember this all started hundreds of years ago when the internet didn't exist.

I can't remember that without the internet, I wasn't there and neither were you. Many many hundreds

reply to post by Klassified


All Christian churches are astronomically aligned, normally due east on the saints's day to which the church is dedicated (cathedral at Chartres and St Peter's in Rome...) I know it might be suprising to some Christians to learn how this tradition has been continued but take Karnak in Egypt, at sunrise on the winter solstice a thin ray of sunlight would enter the portals of the temple and travels five hundred yards through courtyards, halls and pathways until it pentetrated the darkness of the Holy of Holies. My sources are Newton, Kepler, Voltaire, Paine, Washington, Franklin, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Edison, Wilde, Gandhi, Duchamp....

reply to post by underspace


The protestants took a stricter view on doctrine, where as the Catholics include "traditions" as doctrine as well.

Taking that approach of being stricter it would of been less likely to include the books the catholics had already thrown out, hence throwing out more books but not adding.

reply to post by underspace


The sermons were given in Latin, do you not get this?

OHHHHH you must think that the average person at the time was able to read, think again.

The peons did not speak Latin. . . . Just like today they do not understand symbolism.

reply to post by knightsofcydonia


Genesis 1:14

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

This is also a reference to the Mazzaroth as well, in psalms 147:1-5 it states that God calls each star by name,
THe bible and Torah.

SO again astronomy and named consolations are in the bible

Perhaps a more knowledgable member of the Jewish faith can fill us in on the Mazzaroth?

reply to post by MasterGemini


You have passed over most of my questions to you. Why do you expect me to answer yours

And you didn't originally say priests spoke Latin in sermons, you said it was written in Latin. You're twisting things to win an argument.

I believe Aramaic was the common language and scripture was written in that. It was later translated to Latin. It was originally in 3 languages, none of them Latin.

OHHHHH you must think that the average person at the time was able to read, think again.

What relevance does this have, or most of what you're saying, to the OP topic and the points I am making?

reply to post by benrl


You only need look to the Talmud and Kabbalah.

The mystery schools all stem from this system which was picked up when the peoples where in Sumeria.
You can find out a lot more in a book called The Essential Golden Dawn an Introduction (by Cicero)

It highlights the astrotheology based religions.

John Dee (aka 007) would know a thing or two about it:
Queen Elizabeth's Magician -John Dee
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by underspace
reply to post by MasterGemini

 

You have passed over most of my questions to you. Why do you expect me to answer yours

And you didn't originally say priests spoke Latin in sermons, you said it was written in Latin. You're twisting things to win an argument.

I believe Aramaic was the common language and scripture was written in that. It was later translated to Latin. It was originally in 3 languages, none of them Latin.

OHHHHH you must think that the average person at the time was able to read, think again.

What relevance does this have, or most of what you're saying, to the OP topic and the points I am making?

edit on 2-9-2011 by underspace because: (no reason given)

At the time of the institution of the Roman Catholic Church your average person did not know how to read or write, they were dependent on the priests to read the sermons out loud. So even if they got a copy of a Bible they likely could not read it.

The people where essentially brainwashed into the beliefs of the RCC much like in the mind control video I linked to earlier. They have heard it repeated over so often since childhood that they think it is truth.

You know that whole quote about making a lie big enough and saying it often enough and it will become true?

Constantine used the RCC as an excuse to stop crucifying Christians and increase his control over society.

reply to post by MasterGemini


yes I learned about the mazzaroth while looking into jewish mysticism, always found the topic intriguing.

Originally posted by underspace

Originally posted by Klassified
No reconciliation needed. The church as an entity existed long before the catholic church came into being. They may be the largest, considering all the blood they spilled to get that way. But they aren't the first or only.

I understand that. That was not the point I was making. Are you sure they are not the first (we are talking about Christianity are we not?) . A reconciliation is needed. A Church as an entity did, but did a Christian Church as an entity?

Are you familiar with the history...the Council of Nicea, the formation of the canon? I am not saying they are the only...silly you would say that if you're reading what I wrote.

The majority of Christian denominations today use the same Bible (King James, NIV, etc), a canon decided by the Roman Catholic Church.

Acknowledging that religion or the church existed prior to its formation is not relevant. It was brought up that Catholics are not to be confused with Christians, yet the vast majority of today's Christian denominations use that standard RCC canon.

I am very familiar with the history. And I see where your going now. Interesting way to look at it. But the bible used by catholics and protestants alike is not sufficient evidence alone for your hypothesis. Although it does lend credence to the idea. And actually, I like your thinking on this.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
reply to post by Klassified

 

All Christian churches are astronomically aligned, normally due east on the saints's day to which the church is dedicated (cathedral at Chartres and St Peter's in Rome...) I know it might be suprising to some Christians to learn how this tradition has been continued but take Karnak in Egypt, at sunrise on the winter solstice a thin ray of sunlight would enter the portals of the temple and travels five hundred yards through courtyards, halls and pathways until it pentetrated the darkness of the Holy of Holies. My sources are Newton, Kepler, Voltaire, Paine, Washington, Franklin, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Edison, Wilde, Gandhi, Duchamp....

Then you mean all Catholic churches. There are protestant churches right here where I live that are definitely not aligned due east.

There are some who believe that the Zodiac actually presents a very Christian message that has been lost. This theory states that the Zodiac was written in the stars at the beginning of time by God Himself in order to make the story of the gospel present for all mankind to see throughout the ages so that all men would have access to the story of our salvation regardless of their access to a Church, if only they knew how to properly interpret it.

You can read more about this theory here.