Why are Americans so Vengeful?

Originally posted by StratosFear
...And what makes your sh!t smell like lemon pledge and sunshine?

It doesn't. I'm just saying Americans shouldn't be so vengeful. I don't think it's advancing us.

OMG!!!! can we stop with the "Liberal" sh!t. it is embarrassing and divisive and in no way aides to a healthy dialogue. how many posters on this thread (and ATS for that matter) toss it around like a cuss word?!?!?!

for all you radical free thinkers who loiter on ATS... bandying "Liberal" as a dirty moniker is simply parroting a calculated smear campaign by Rush Limbaugh.

think for yourself... come up with a decent argument, whatever your perspective may be.

but geez.... it is childish and counter productive to reduce every argument to "damned Liberals".

i mean... "damned neo-cons messed up america blah blah blah." it doesn't solve a blasted thing. it reduces intelligent debate into generalized name calling and it is, at this point, utterly ridiculous.

man... i suppose i got me a rant thread to write soon.


and no. i'm not a liberal. or a conservative. or a torie. or a whig. or a marxist. or a capitalist. or a communist. or a tea-partier. or a green partier. or part of the labor movement. or a socialist. or a zionist, or whatever other label you want to toss around.

i'm a person trying to have an intelligent discourse with other intelligent people.

step it up folks.

reply to post by m1991


yeah really dont hear anything about australia doing the same to the aboriginals

havent heard anything about the british empire where the sun never set or the roman and muslim empires of the past did the same.

just how many countries have nukes these days eh? worried about the us you should be worried and complaining about the other 100 countries

but no this is a usa bash fest.

meh.

reply to post by neo96

yeah well it wasnt a conservative who dropped the bomb twice.

Two words: BUSH ADMINISTRATION

reply to post by NightGypsy


the bush admin dropped nuclear weapons

thanks for the 411

Wanting to take responsibility for your own safety and that of your family and property is not vengeance nor is it fanatical. Those that rely on the government for protection generally get abused by it or at least lose their dignity as a dependent.
Have you seen any video of Europe from the last year or more? I've seen a lot more armored cops busting citizens heads than I've seen here. Maybe it's coming, but at least here they have to fear a little blowback due to lots of gun ownership in the U.S.
People in other countries are just as "vengeful" as here. Right now, we just happen to be the big boy on the block. Ask an Irishman from the 1700s thru the 1970s how gentle and civilized the British were. Do a very cursery review of history and tell me that people aren't inherently violent. "Evil" is a value judgement. Look at other members of the primate family. The ones most closely related to us are also very violent and have class hierarchies. Are chimpanzees evil? We are what we are. Animals controlled by our biological impulses. Philosophy and automobiles won't change that.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by mythos

 

well for those of us who study world history and looked at the history of europe,asia and the rest of the world

the us does not come even close to being "barbaric" as they have and that is a fact.

and yes, my friend, i have studied world history, as i'm sure most ATSers have.

and, of course, the rest of the world has certainly committed their share of atrocities.

but does that justify the US's?

as a country founded on freedom and democracy it should hold itself to a higher standard than the rest of the world.

it is of the OP's perspective it does not. having studied my history, sadly, i cannot disagree with the OP.

I hope you don't mind if I go off on a slight tangent, but the OP was just a little confusing to me in it's broad sweep. I did notice the strong emphasis on the two words "vengeful" and "militaristic."

Vengeful? That's just trying to get revenge or justice for a real or imagined slight. Insult someone's mom and that person will become vengeful. It's pretty near universal, not just American. (Ok, Christianity and some other ways of living attempt to discourage us from vengenance, but that hasn't had full success yet.)

The only problem I can see with vengence is if its disproportionate. I don't think the OP has made the case that Americans are particularly disproportionate in their desire for vengenance (although I may have missed it). The closest thing I've seen to disproportionate around here is some comments on the middle east forum.

Militaristic? I don't know. The "militaristic" US has used it's military for many good purposes, and for some foolish ones. Countries such as Canada are grateful that they have the US available to help in their defense. I suppose we could argue the wisdom of a particular military involvement, but that doesn't seem to be what the OP was getting at.

A militaristic society? We're not in the big leagues there. North Korea is a militaristic society. I'm talking about where the citizens serve the military, or the military is large per capita, or the countries policies are primarily for the benefit of the military (if that country isn't being threatened with attack), that sort of thing.

Just an opinion, but I think the OP has to be a little more precise, fewer generalizations, for me to understand completely what is meant. I'm not scolding anybody, just saying my faculties aren't up to the task.

Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by mythos

 

well for those of us who study world history and looked at the history of europe,asia and the rest of the world

the us does not come even close to being "barbaric" as they have and that is a fact.

Oh really?

I guess taking the land from the native people is nothing?

I guess enslaving millions of Africans is nothing?

I guess bullying the whole planet with our nukes and armies is nothing?

Look it up yourself, Africans sold there own into slavery!
Nobody is bulling anyone with nukes, its called a deterent.
History is full of cultures taking over the natives of the land not just here.
Im done with this, OP just pissed he hasnt gotten his way at some point and decided to take his anger out here. You dont like America? Fine you have the freedom to leave, i here its really hot done south so you might want to cross into Canada.

reply to post by m1991

You've proven justice is just a euphemism for revenge. 1) The thing is we didn't stop Hitler. He did the Holocaust. He was pretty much successful. There are hardly any Jewish people in Europe today. We just saved the few who survived. We turned away many Jews trying to come to America to escape. Only for them to be killed in Europe. Many argue without the war, there wouldn't have been a Holocaust. 2) Why not share? 3) No, that's a text by Hammurabi. 4) They dropped the bomb because of something we did first. 5) Bin Laden wasn't behind 9/11 most likely. And even if he was, the way we shot him unarmed (assuming even that is true) was dishonorable. We should have brought him to America to be tried.

I have to give you a star for this comment, m1991.

reply to post by m1991


Sicilians? Vendetta? Talk about vengence.

We dont like to take it thats why.

reply to post by mythos


ok so give a free pass to the others but dont do it for the us.

havent seen the us march people off to gas chambers or stone or behead people or a myraid of other stupidty that still goes on in this world.

but no all that dont matter what matters is the evilness of the usa

that is a messed up sense of morality.

Guns ABSOLUTELY can kill people. So do knives. So do rocks, pieces of wood, swords, a video game controller, a fork, a sharpened spoon, a high heel shoe, a regular shoe, bombs, a rope, a bike chain, a pipe, a broken beer bottle, a sharp piece of metal, a pencil, a pen, cars...

I feel that all of the above things should have MUCH stricter rules on them. Many of the items can be used to bludgeon someone to death, or inflict lethal stab wounds, or blow someone up... I'm sure i missed some things. Oh yeah, wrenches, screwdrivers, a saw... uhh... Probably still missing some things.

Cheers

reply to post by neo96

the bush admin dropped nuclear weapons thanks for the 411

Ehem......don't be coy.

Dropping nuclear weapons is not the only form of violence there is, my friend.

Apparently you have not researched history as much as you think you have. I guess it's okay for a presidential administration to initiate large-scale attacks and violence as long as it's casualties are spread out over a decade or more.....as opposed to killing people in one foul swoop? Is this what you are saying?

reply to post by Qemyst

Guns do kill people. So do knives. So do rocks, pieces of wood, swords, a video game controller, a fork, a sharpened spoon, a high heel shoe, a regular shoe, bombs, a rope, a bike chain, a pipe, a broken beer bottle, a sharp piece of metal, a pencil, a pen, cars... I feel that all of the above things should have MUCH stricter rules on them. Many of the items can be used to bludgeon someone to death, or inflict lethal stab wounds, or blow someone up... I'm sure i missed some things. Oh yeah, wrenches, screwdrivers, a saw... uhh... Probably still missing some things. Cheers

Yes, Qemyst! And all these things do so at will--all by themselves--whenever they feel wronged or angry! Why, I've seen a regular shoe spring from nowhere and beat a man into a coma!

(I love your post)

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by m1991

 

yeah really dont hear anything about australia doing the same to the aboriginals

havent heard anything about the british empire where the sun never set or the roman and muslim empires of the past did the same.

just how many countries have nukes these days eh? worried about the us you should be worried and complaining about the other 100 countries

but no this is a usa bash fest.

meh.

wow... you and i have got some sort of dynamic between us! well, it's keeping my afternoon interesting.

the atrocities of Australia towards their aboriginal population is a big deal, and has made world news.

in fact, several years ago, Australia made a formal apology for their past behaviors...

news.bbc.co.uk...

and British barbarism, especially during the colonizing times, is well noted. that's what Ghandi was all about, and how he exploited their violent tendencies and used it against them. check out the Salt March. or just watch the flick. it's a good one.

the UK has attempted (somewhat) to deal with their violent past by regulating guns. Australia has dealt with their violent past by offering a formal apology (something the Natives of the US i am not sure will ever get).

the US continues to justify it's violence.

as well, this thread is about calling to question US violence. a very real issue. to sweep it under the mat, just because other countries have also been "naughty", or because one thinks people are ganging up on the US, is simply not confronting a very real issue.

the US has the potential to be truly a remarkable nation. WWII is a shining example of that. yet too often, it chooses to hide behind it's past achievements rather then to address the true matters at hand... which is, how do we as a species truly wish to usher in the new age?

if the US is the greatest nation on earth (highly arguable, yet the US certainly has its fair share of clout) then how does such a nation model itself for the rest of the world?

again, the OP doesn't feel the US have been the best role models. again, i am inclined to agree.

reply to post by NightGypsy


....I'm serious.. I feel threatened with the aforementioned items not having strict regulations on them......

Cheers

Originally posted by Domo1

Why should I be barred from gun ownership because someone else shot up a school? People commit arson with gasoline, should we outlaw that?

I would also like to see sources for the countries seeing a decline in murders. You keep making claims without proof. Also, what is an epidemic? We've had a handful of school shootings that were very tragic but I wouldn't call it an epidemic.

read this:

colorado.mediamatters.org...

Originally posted by Qemyst
Guns ABSOLUTELY can kill people. So do knives. So do rocks, pieces of wood, swords, a video game controller, a fork, a sharpened spoon, a high heel shoe, a regular shoe, bombs, a rope, a bike chain, a pipe, a broken beer bottle, a sharp piece of metal, a pencil, a pen, cars...

I feel that all of the above things should have MUCH stricter rules on them. Many of the items can be used to bludgeon someone to death, or inflict lethal stab wounds, or blow someone up... I'm sure i missed some things. Oh yeah, wrenches, screwdrivers, a saw... uhh... Probably still missing some things.

Cheers

edit on 2-9-2011 by Qemyst because: (no reason given)

Yes. But not nearly as effectively (and as impersonally) as guns.

I don't want to make this thread all about guns.

So far, nobody has really disproven any of my points about Americans being a vengeful bunch. I've just heard the cliche non-arguments "Guns don't kill people", "Love it or leave it", "Other things besides guns can be weapons", I mean come on guys, some creativity here! It's no wonder the rest of the world finds us Americans to be uneducated.