Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven right now and you could be too!!!

I am sorry again if I sounded all knowing!!

reply to post by User8911


Apology is accepted and appreciated.... and thanks for clarifying your belief system .

So I can... like... kill a few people and torture them with cruel methods... and still go to heaven???

SHWEAT!!

I totally love Christianity!!

reply to post by Soulwatch


To the ones who have been to the pit of hell it IS SO REAL because you FEEL every second and the thirst from the heat is not quenched. You will never ever be able to convince the one who has NOT had the experience unless they humble themselves...not much of that around here.

I did not believe in Hell but this past year experiences have lead me to believe other wise. I appreciate you sticking your neck out and calling it like it is.

Cause and Effect is a Universal Law. This is observed.

Again, thank you for the insight and I am so glad you did not have to hang out for a second longer than you did. I hope and pray for all of us that we may be saved if we find our self in that stench of a nasty place!!

Amen and Amen!!! xoxoxox

Jenn

When Jesus died on the cross, there was a murderer on one side and a thief on the other. He told them both, they would be with Him in heaven that day. He forgave them.

reply to post by Soulwatch


If you are going to quote the bible..you should get it right.. he did not forgive BOTH of them..only the one who acknowledged him..

I believe this is the part of the bible you are referring to?

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:39-43"

That being said..this was a thief..not a person who had tortured ,raped,sodomized..and killed many many victims.

reply to post by MamaJ


What makes you believe otherwise, that there is a hell?

reply to post by arpgme


In short..... there are observed Laws. Laws are found throughout perception and are experienced. Laws are real and can be felt and seen in a number of ways.

Law of cause and effect is the reason why I believe in a Hell.

I never wanted to believe a Loving God (the one I believe in ) would EVER hurt anyone no matter what they did. Never would He send someone there ..he is love. Why?? This was something I felt like I had to get to the bottom of. I had to make "sense" of it.

In my opinion...

he doesn't send anyone there. There is a Law that sends them there. However ....there is also a Law that salvation is had through Jesus by the Grace of God. This law allows a negative energy finding themselves in the Pit to be saved if they ask to be. You can ask and receive or you can hang out all you want. Nothing is done against the Will of the Soul though. You have to ASK. The "Hell" is inside the earth and resides here only.

Another existence does not have Hell. There are many realms of consciousness.

I have asked and asked and researched and contemplated. I have to have stuff make sense to ME. It now makes sense and I feel a lot better with the "sense".


Love to ya!!! xoxoxo

Jenn

I do believe in forgiveness .... with sincere sorrow for your wrong doings.. but.. I don't think you can truly be sorry for what you have done until you experience in some soul way the consequences of your wrong doing. Only then do you know the extent of what you need to be sorry for.

Did Dahlmer feel the pain and horror of his victims ?..did he understand what they went through ?...did he feel the agony of the families and friends who loved these victims ? Was he sorry because he understood deeply what he had caused other souls to experience ?
.. or sorry because he was "afraid " for his soul..and didn't want to experience any pain in hell? Would he have been sorry enough to stop what he was doing had he never been caught ?

I just wonder about the practicalities of being in heaven, if serial killers or patriarchs that wiped out entire tribes (even the kids) are allowed into heaven.

Being saved is not the same as being reformed.
Will they get therapy in heaven?
Isn't there a danger they may slip-up and hurt somebody again?
Is heaven child friendly (assuming that original sin allows any kids in at all)?

I wouldn't sleep a wink in heaven knowing that Dahmer is roaming about freely.
It doesn't sound safe.
Maybe there are prisons, or people who back-slide are kicked out into the fiery lake?

reply to post by halfoldman


I have asked the same questions but, considering how many people know there is a heaven and hell, I have not got a response. Is heaven like watching the Broncos beat the Packers in the Superbowl repeatedly for eternity? Do they have depends?

CJ

Originally posted by gabby2011
I do believe in forgiveness .... with sincere sorrow for your wrong doings.. but.. I don't think you can truly be sorry for what you have done until you experience in some soul way the consequences of your wrong doing. Only then do you know the extent of what you need to be sorry for.

Did Dahlmer feel the pain and horror of his victims ?..did he understand what they went through ?...did he feel the agony of the families and friends who loved these victims ? Was he sorry because he understood deeply what he had caused other souls to experience ?
.. or sorry because he was "afraid " for his soul..and didn't want to experience any pain in hell? Would he have been sorry enough to stop what he was doing had he never been caught ?

edit on 1-9-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

Not that it matters.. but I do agree. How can one be sorry if they never feel the pain caused. Will you feel it in another life time? Possibly? Will you feel it immediately? I think so. If one chooses to come back after a life lead like that of his he would merely be in existence to feel the pain he caused. Why would he choose to come back? Only if the soul progression was a quick one in this realm of perception. To live a "life time" based on what he did to others the last go round.

It is brain stimulating to theorize thats for sure.

Originally posted by gabby2011

God does grade on a curve. His curve is whether or not we believe his existence.

reply to post by Josonic

 

WOW..so your saying God doesn't see dahlmer as any more evil than the adulteress wife?

Instead He judges more on whether people believe in him or not?

Do you realize how egotistical and unfair that sounds?

Do you realize why many can't follow christianity because of that crazy logic?

Yep..God cares more about people believing in him..than he does about boys getting tortured raped and sodomized...doesn't say a lot for God..does it?

Apparently you didn't read the OP because you are agreeing with me....You just described my whole point

Originally posted by Josonic
Apparently you didn't read the OP ...

On ATS
NO FKWAY!!

reply to post by Josonic

Apparently you didn't read the OP because you are agreeing with me....You just described my whole point

I was replying to the person that said God didn't judge on a curve ..only those who didn't believe in him..so sorry for the mix up.. He/she was a replying to your post.. I think I quoted them ,and then clicked reply on one of yours...so sorry for the mix up.. but good on ya for pointing it out.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Josonic

 

We grade on a curve, God doesn't. You're either perfect, or imperfect. We're all imperfect. Accepting Christ doesn't make you perfect, it only means your debt to God is paid in full. There quite often is still a debt to pay to society for our mistakes, however God is quite a bit more forgiving than society.

This sounds like you are referring to a verse in the New Testament but it is a misapplication of it.
The verse is Colossians 2:14, and the third clause of that verse.
"He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross."

The context shows that the writer of Colossians meant the Old Testament Law of Moses.
". . . they have the appearance of wisdom with their self-imposed worship and false humility. . ."

From what your theology says, it is really talking about those old laws being permanent and God killing Jesus to somehow pay the debt in blood owed for us not having been keeping all those festivals and weeks and months where we were supposed to do one thing or another.
This is really an anti-Christian philosophy and makes God to be vindictive and not forgiving, and waiting to pounce on all those who do not accept Jesus' submission to the claims of that old law, with a long list of grievances against us that we could never possibly comply with.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Jeffrey Dahlmer is a martyr and saint? How cruel of the system? What in the wild world of sports?
The saints are the ones he mercilessly tortured to death, many teenagers.
JD is/was a waste of space. A monster on earth. Sorry don't cut it and yeah, it does suck people get killed in prison but it happens every day. So he "found" god? You don't know - untill then, let him ROT IN HELL where he belongs. The guys is one of the most horrific humans ever, and yep, he's floating around with wings as an angel - delusional.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

Jeffrey Dahlmer is a martyr and saint?

What's the statistics for ATS? as in how many people post on the various forums every week. Am I the only person out of all those who thinks that?(what I quoted you saying, which is your distillation and take on my earlier posts on this thread)
That would be interesting, if I was.
I may be the poster who is the most aware of judgement, having died twice, so maybe that says something about judgement. I'm not saying that I am so unique in the dying department, having friends who have also died in clinical settings, but maybe how it affected me, already having a rather keen awareness of judgement from my religious indoctrination, from a denomination that had that as its central theme.
Me being so unique, would mean that if I say something about you, it would really be me addressing every other person on ATS, when I say that you should be concerned about the fate of your own eternal soul, rather than harboring negative thoughts of others, and their own judgement. Now I understand that the purpose of this thread is to have an opportunity for people to show their disgust with the concept of forgiveness and salvation and a way for people to continue in a decent life beyond the one we know now. Jeffrey may have been pulled out of a number of cases to demonstrate this supposed fallacy, and really could be the best example for all I know, but it does strike me in that way that I earlier described (similarly to what I already brought up concerning my quoting your post, the one I am currently responding to). I don't know what you want, unless it was a recantation from my earlier position, in light of your good logic or superior morality. I get the "safety in heaven" issue since it is the type of argument I have used myself to explain why some people would not or should not go to heaven, seeing how the wrong sort would eventually give us the same situation we find ourselves in today. Carried to its extreme, that would exclude everyone who was born mentally defective or insane from being able to go to heaven.
The important thing that presents itself to me as being the current concern, considering my being the sole defender of Jeffrey, is how you will face judgement yourself. I am all for people being responsible for their own actions and being judged according to a person's past acts in this life, and I am all for personal holiness and not depending on some other, holy person stepping in and presenting their own virtuous life in your stead in judgement. But there is also a case to be made for forgiveness to a person on accepting Jesus and what he did with his living righteously and dying for us so we could be saved. Now if Jeffrey had never understood that somehow, and then did once he was in prison, then I believe that he would be forgiven at that time for whatever sins he committed previously to that event. I am also a big supporter of the idea that there needs to be true repentance for this forgiveness to be granted, which involves a conversion of the heart for the better, and a real desire to do what is right. Just a superficial mouthing of a certain formula of words does not give a person salvation, but a change in life that does follow the guidance of God through the spirit that comes from God as a faith. It very well seems to me to be the case with Jeffrey, and there is a verse in the letters of Peter in the New Testament of the Bible that says even the fallen angels, who are destined to eternal damnation already, know enough to never say a word against the very least of the holy ones of God.

reply to post by MamaJ


MamaJ, I think we have finally met an agreeing point

I believe that anything that man has ever dreamed up, exists somehow and somewhere, including hell. Some people experience going to hell, some experience going to the valley of lost souls[1] , they all have one thing in common, they die believing that they deserve it for not doing X or Y.

I believe in the Law of Attraction (what you think about you bring about), ESPECIALLY, when you are spirit and there are no physical laws. If you think about hell and scared you may go there. If you think of any other negative place that man has dreamed about you may go there.

It doesn't matter to God because God is eternal, and is love, and when you come to realize that you are born out of love and absolute freedom, you will see passed the illusion and go to whatever realm you choose.

I read about a Near Death Experience where one person went to hell, realized that there was a door and left, and that ANYONE could if they choose, and also entered the door of the valley of hell....

They were about to go to heaven when a bright light of love and peace said that they can't go to heaven because then they won't be able to come back to their Earthly life and they'll stay dead.

1: Valley of Hell is a name that I gave to a place that people who have Near Death Experiences describe as gray dark skies, emptiness, dead soil, with millions of souls walking looking down in depression without making a sound or acknowledging others existence.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Josonic

 

We grade on a curve, God doesn't. You're either perfect, or imperfect. We're all imperfect. Accepting Christ doesn't make you perfect, it only means your debt to God is paid in full. There quite often is still a debt to pay to society for our mistakes, however God is quite a bit more forgiving than society.

This sounds like you are referring to a verse in the New Testament but it is a misapplication of it.
The verse is Colossians 2:14, and the third clause of that verse.
"He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross."

The context shows that the writer of Colossians meant the Old Testament Law of Moses.
". . . they have the appearance of wisdom with their self-imposed worship and false humility. . ."

From what your theology says, it is really talking about those old laws being permanent and God killing Jesus to somehow pay the debt in blood owed for us not having been keeping all those festivals and weeks and months where we were supposed to do one thing or another.
This is really an anti-Christian philosophy and makes God to be vindictive and not forgiving, and waiting to pounce on all those who do not accept Jesus' submission to the claims of that old law, with a long list of grievances against us that we could never possibly comply with.

No, I'm referring to John 19:30. When Christ said "It is finished", the Greek term He used was "Tetelestai". This means literally "paid in full". It's a reference to the practice in Greek culture when a prisoner had a debt to society to pay off in jail, they would check off the years served and when the "debt" was paid the certificate of debt would be stamped "Tetelestai" and given to the prisoner when released. Showing all who would ask that their debt was paid in full.

I purposely said "paid in full" for a reason, that's exactly what Christ exclaimed from the cross when He said "Tetelestai!!!"

"Tetelestai/Paid In Full"

.."What does this pronouncement of Jesus mean for you and for me? It means our sins – indeed the sins of the whole world – are paid for in full! It means that God’s favor is won! He no longer holds our sins against us but reaches out to us in grace and mercy for the sake of His Son and His innocent sufferings and death upon the cross in our stead! It means that, no matter what we have done, Jesus paid the price for our sins that we might receive God’s mercy and forgiveness and a place in His everlasting kingdom!

This single word assures us that all is done and our salvation in Jesus is sure! There is nothing we need to do or add to Jesus’ completed work! “Tetelestai”! “It is finished”! And Jesus’ resurrection on the third day proves the truthfulness of this single, dying word.

Yet, sad to say, many preachers do not preach “Tetelestai.” They don’t preach as though Christ paid in full and salvation is won. They may say that Jesus died for all sins and rose again. They may even proclaim God’s pardon and forgiveness in Christ Jesus, but then they err by adding conditions to it, by requiring their hearers to do some work or live in a certain way before they may be saved.

Tetelestai means that our redemption is complete – Jesus paid in full when He suffered and died for our sins and rose again in victory on the third day! Our salvation is not dependent upon doing certain works, making a decision, speaking a prayer or living according to certain commandments. Our salvation is entirely dependent upon Jesus’ perfect and holy life in our stead and upon His innocent sufferings and death on the cross for our sins, and it is finished!"

"Tetelestai means that our redemption is complete." Praise the Lord.


Tetelestai - It is finished!

reply to post by NOTurTypical
That's all just philosophy.
Just making it mean whatever you want it to.
Anyway, your argument is total bunk.
The exact same word, as in the same morphology, is also found two verses before that one.

After this Jesus, realizing that by this time everything was completed, said (in order to fulfill the scripture), “I am thirsty!”