Football Players Penalized for pointing towards Heaven.

...i watched the video... the finger pointing couldve been just the "we're number one" thang... the ref is either a mind reader or a jerk... i'm bettin on the latter...

...i dont care what the motivation was behind the pointing thang... those kids were not at all offensive and anyone who took offense has serious mental issues...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Annee

 

#1, only Atheists would recognize it, so there might not be any reaction at all.

Ok - - although I expected the response to be about recognition of an Atheist symbol - - - in following with the discussion.

I will be more detailed.

What would be the response by many (probably most) fans and media if a player held up a sign with an Atheist symbol (and Atheism spelled out). Or a sign that said "God had nothing to do with this - because there is no god".

Are you seriously going to tell me this would be accepted?

That there would not be a negative reaction?

I realize believers don't see the problem with pointing to Heaven or gestures giving credit to their God.

But - - - are you seriously going to tell me they would accept rejection of god? You know they wouldn't.

It was kind of ironic that they were penalised for this gesture while playing against a Jesuit high school.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
What if he used the excuse that he was pointing at comet Elenin, or the sun?
Why should someone's personal perspective be cause for a penalty like this? Just because people assume he's referring to his religious beliefs, there has to be a penalty?

Because Atheists are the equivalent of that insane church trying to protest the death of gay soldiers.

Just really angry and looking to take it out on others.

What bunch of prudes getting upset because someone gave thanks by pointing.

I now demand that all schools ban pointing as it is a violation of church and state!

reply to post by Annee

If a player stuck up a sign representing Atheism. What do you think the response would be? Please give me a serious honest answer.

If the state can outlaw a a form of religious symbolism, then an atheistic display would be treated the same way... at least, to begin with. Atheism is, after all, simply a form of theism that has no deity. There is no proof that God exists or does not exist. In fact, I tend to lean in the direction that proving nonexistence of anything is impossible.

What you believe is strictly up to you... and if you choose to offer a small, personal gesture to represent that belief, it hurts me in no way so... please, have at it. I fully support the right of ALL in this matter, regardless of faith or not.

Originally posted by redoubt
Atheism is, after all, simply a form of theism that has no deity.

I am not going to get into a discussion of what Atheism is.

Would it be accepted or not?

reply to post by Annee


I agree with you here. If they recognized a player doing some sort of atheist symbol someone would be offended I'm sure. But it doesn't make it right. Just like this kid getting a penalty for pointing, they aren't allowed to do it because some might be offended but that doesn't mean it's right. It's not right for anyone to be penalized in any way for making any kind of gesture that isn't really hurting anyone else.
Crap like this should not be happening. People are getting way too sensitive and way to controlling of other people. It's just ridiculous.

reply to post by MasterGemini


I hope you're just being sarcastic and funny here and not really grouping every atheist in the world together.

Edit to add -That's like saying all religious people are the equivalent to that insane church you're talking about.

I will use Hockey as an example here, Alexander Ovechkin fist pumps and rides his stick after he scores a goal he celebrates on the ice passionately. They do not give penalties for this in Hockey and Ovechkin is loved by the fans for his passion as much as his ability. The critics get on him about this "behavior" which nothing more than him being himself. After a while you could tell the critics got to him and he stopped doing much of his celebrations and last season Ovechkin did not perform nearly as well as he does normally.

In contrast, this is an instance of a couple kids pointing to the sky one time to honor a fallen friend, it could have meant anything pointing a finger in the sky. The team is penalized and loses the game in the end. The point I am trying to make is that you should not penalize a person or judge them for celebrations because it is petty and pointless. I respect and support individuals being individuals and carrying out actions that they desire to express.

Taunts are used in many sports as well as in the military, this wasn't even a taunt.

Boxing
Gladiators
Wrestling
UFC
Leaders in battle lines would often chant or taunt the enemy
Russian jets fly close to US airspace and turn at the last minute when they are being intercepted.

Liberty and individual expression run hand in hand, if you're against expression you are against Liberty.

Originally posted by Annee
What would be the response by many (probably most) fans and media if a player held up a sign with an Atheist symbol (and Atheism spelled out). Or a sign that said "God had nothing to do with this - because there is no god".

Anyone who would get offended by a sign like that is either intolerant or insecure/hypersensitive about their beliefs.

Society shouldn't be pandering to the perpetually offended and the intolerant. If someone gets affronted by a sign promoting atheism, then that's just tough; just the same as atheists who get in a tizz over a religious symbol.

reply to post by Annee


...its your personal choice to make this pointing thang all about your issues with your religious upbringing / participation... your choice to do so has nothing at all to do with atheism...

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by redoubt
Atheism is, after all, simply a form of theism that has no deity.

I am not going to get into a discussion of what Atheism is.

Would it be accepted or not?

I believe I offered my opinion on that...

If the state can outlaw a a form of religious symbolism, then an atheistic display would be treated the same way... at least, to begin with.

That means no... it would not because the effort here is to remove all forms of religious andor personal belief, which would include atheism.

again, that's just my opinion. They don't let me write the rules anymore

An official with the Ohio High School Athletic Association tells WJW that the penalty is appropriate by the rules. He says any prolonged gesture by a player that draws attention to himself is a foul.

Fans say officials should have made an exception.

Read more: www.wcpo.com...

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As you can see - - the rules were known.

Fans are asking for an exception.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


...i'm terribly offended that we agree and that i felt compelled to give you a star - stop that!...

reply to post by Annee


Explanation: No!

Personal Disclosure: Anything outside TEAM uniform is FORBIDDEN unless passed by the referee and both coaches. By then the fans are going wtfh! Then there is some announcement made to the fans concerning it... if its agreed to...and in this 1 specific case I am talking about the black tribute armband.

Far out ..don't try twist this into a thing about atheism... its about GRANDSTANDING during a TEAM sport and it shows they didn't ok it with their own coach or the referee's before hand etc.

Originally posted by Annee
An official with the Ohio High School Athletic Association tells WJW that the penalty is appropriate by the rules. He says any prolonged gesture by a player that draws attention to himself is a foul.

Fans say officials should have made an exception.

Read more: www.wcpo.com...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see - - the rules were known.

Fans are asking for an exception.

The next point is whether a rule is right. It's easy to write law and easy to enforce. But none of that makes any of it right.

The subject here is neither religion or atheism. The principle is the right of the individual to show a personal gesture that is neither negative or directed at another individual or group of individuals. In this case, his gesture hurt no one so... enforcement was strictly knee-jerk.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...i'm terribly offended that we agree and that i felt compelled to give you a star - stop that!...

I'm going to have to flip-flop my position on this subject now, because it doesn't feel right reaching unanimity with you on an issue.

Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by Annee
An official with the Ohio High School Athletic Association tells WJW that the penalty is appropriate by the rules. He says any prolonged gesture by a player that draws attention to himself is a foul.

Fans say officials should have made an exception.

Read more: www.wcpo.com...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see - - the rules were known.

Fans are asking for an exception.

The next point is whether a rule is right.

No that is not the next point. At least not when a violation occurs with an established rule.

If you want to argue and change a rule - - that is completely separate.

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A grandparent of a Louisville player was among the fans who believe officials should have made an exception under the circumstances.

It was just "a simple gesture to Heaven," Ann Miller said.

Read more: www.wcpo.com...

reply to post by redoubt


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: I agree... give them a yellow card [or its equivilant punishment] and Game On.

Edited to Clarify: The above is in relation to the technical legalities. We're they in the wrong.. yep Is this being blown way out of proportion? YES! Let the coach deal with it! These players broke rank!

reply to post by Annee

No that is not the next point. At least not when a violation occurs with an established rule. If you want to argue and change a rule - - that is completely separate.

I wasn't arguing anything. I thought I was discussing the penalizing of a football player in Ohio because he made a personal gesture on the field.

Your thread... so go ahead and do with it as you will. I didn't come here to argue, criticize or condemn. I was just sharing my opinion. Nothing more.

My bad, for sure.

Have a nice day