The 9\11 Conspiracy Shop in Canada called "Conspiracy Culture"

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by masqua

 

Sorry, but whenever I here "Zionism" a big red flag goes up. Jews are not split on this issue. Whenever they hear "Zionism" they know what is about to be undertaken is not a fair and reasonable discussion of foreign policy but a gateway to Anti-Semitism.

THIS! The last I checked, the actual meaning of "Zionism" is a political movement that favors an Israeli homeland and Israeli self-determination. That's all. Somewhere along the line the word "Zionism" has been perverted and exaggerated to absurity to the point where people can think "Zionism" includes anyone supporting directives to get a license for your dog. Thus, these Chicken Littles screaming the sky is falling in with these "the 9/11 attack was a secret Zionist plot to frame Afghanistan" accusations only makes sense if you don't really think things through, since Afghanistan was one or two steps above the stone age and wasn't even remotely a threat to Israel. You might as well hatch a plot that framed Antarctica.

In that light, Zionism is really whatever the characters operating this bookstore wants Zionism to be. That's the nature of conspiracy mongoring in a nutshell- come up with whatever accusation you want first and then manufacture your evidence to fit the accusation.

reply to post by masqua

Doing a search on Zionism brings up approximately 8 million hits.

Not difficult to believe.

People DO talk about it and, if one is to attempt to stop that flood of information because of their personal disgust for such discussions, then I believe they have a gargantuan task ahead of them.

Stop it? I don't want to stop it but I do want to be able to also interject my thoughts on the subject into the conversation. I simply pointed out the fact that many persons of less than noble character use the word Zionist as a cover for more overt Anti-Semitic language. This seems to hit a nerve real quick and everyone is immeadiately up in arms and starts claiming that my discussion of their language use is an attempt to censor them.

Speaking as a member, I also believe everyone on this website has a right to discuss any topic. The only restrictions are the T&C's.

Does the right to discuss something include the right not to be criticized? This is also a problem in the broader world today. People want the right to speak freely for themselves but want others to keep their opinions to themselves.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by masqua

 

Sorry, but whenever I here "Zionism" a big red flag goes up. Jews are not split on this issue. Whenever they hear "Zionism" they know what is about to be undertaken is not a fair and reasonable discussion of foreign policy but a gateway to Anti-Semitism.

In that light, Zionism is really whatever the characters operating this bookstore wants Zionism to be. That's the nature of conspiracy mongoring in a nutshell- come up with whatever accusation you want first and then manufacture your evidence to fit the accusation.

(chuckles) Dave, you are aware that Zionism is clearly defined, right? Seems like the only one in this thread that is confused is you.

Originally posted by fattyp

 

(chuckles) Dave, you are aware that Zionism is clearly defined, right? Seems like the only one in this thread that is confused is you.

"Clearly defined" by whom, may I ask? I am quoting the "clearly defined" definition of Zionism as used by Wikipedia:

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to non-political, cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism.

I don't see anywhere in the "clearly defined" explanation of what Zionism is that includes planting secret agents throughout the entire world to stage false flag operations to frame some toilet of a country that not even the Soviet Union thought was worth fighting over. Do you? Methinks YOUR "clearly defined" explanation of what Zionism is different than what everyone else's "clearly defined" explanation of what Zionism is.

If you want to imagine Zionism is behind the laws demanding that you have to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle then then that's what you're going to believe. You'll simply concoct whatever excuse you need to concoct that makes [fill in the blank] sound like it benefits the Jews somehow. Anyone claiming that framing Afghanistan is a secret plot to benefit Israel and then turns around and says I'M the one who's confused is only making themselves a laughingstock, not me or anyone else.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Dave your not BSing us again are you? Am I lost here or are you talking about Afghanistan as being the "toilet of a country" that not even the Soviets thought was worth fighting over? This kind of overt lying in a attempt to prove a point happens all the time with you 9/11 conspiracy debunkers, I had to call you out on this one though.

So the Soviets didn't think Afghanistan was worth fighting for huh? Strange because they fought there for almost a decade, and they had almost fifteen thousand of their military members killed over there, fighting for that "toilet of a country". They only left, because they realized they could not win the war, oddly another super power would attempt to fight for this same "toilet of a country" a little over a decade after the Soviets left...America. Now it's been ten years fighting over there, not as many KIA but only because of the new way of fighting wars now...Yet we still are unable to achieve our goals, and we too will leave being unable to defeat the same "mujaheddin" that the Soviets were unable to defeat back in their ten year war with that "toilet of a country" Afghanistan, as you so eloquently put it.

If 9/11 was an excuse to grab resources by some kind of western elite then why didn't the US invade Saudi Arabia? You know, the country where the hijackers were from...

Originally posted by PersonalChoice

 

Dave your not BSing us again are you? Am I lost here or are you talking about Afghanistan as being the "toilet of a country" that not even the Soviets thought was worth fighting over? This kind of overt lying in a attempt to prove a point happens all the time with you 9/11 conspiracy debunkers, I had to call you out on this one though.

So the Soviets didn't think Afghanistan was worth fighting for huh? Strange because they fought there for almost a decade, and they had almost fifteen thousand of their military members killed over there, fighting for that "toilet of a country". They only left, because they realized they could not win the war, oddly another super power would attempt to fight for this same "toilet of a country" a little over a decade after the Soviets left...America. Now it's been ten years fighting over there, not as many KIA but only because of the new way of fighting wars now...Yet we still are unable to achieve our goals, and we too will leave being unable to defeat the same "mujaheddin" that the Soviets were unable to defeat back in their ten year war with that "toilet of a country" Afghanistan, as you so eloquently put it.

Yes this is exactly the "toilet of a country" I was referring to, and the Soviets left specifically because there was nothing there worth justifying the loss of life and material. If the place was rich in gold, oil, or some other natural resource the Soviets would never have given it up regardless of the cost. The Kolyma region in northern Siberia was a complete arctic wasteland until they discovered the place was a treasure chest of precious resources. Stalin sent a million political prisoners to their deaths to mine the gold, tin, oil, and everything else the place had. Do you really think Afghanistan would have been any different for them?

Plus, after the Soviets left the US had practically a blank check of good will from the insurgents to go in and set up shop...and they didn't. They simply declared victory and went home. Why? BECAUSE AFGHANISTAN DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING WORTH STAYING FOR. The entire world ignored it until al Qaida came along. Not even Pakistan went in to sniff around, and Pakistan is literally right next door.

You can attempt to "call me out" as much as you like but in the end the facts still support my position and still refutes yours- making up stories that 9/11 was an inside job is convoluted enough, but making them even more convoluted by claiming it was to frame one of the most worthless places on the Earth is just plain absurd.

I live right outside of Toronto and work fairly frequently in the City. I'm going to grab my camera and go talk to the owner. So if you have any questions you would like me to pass on, by all means, let me know.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


As usual G.O.D., your views are as warped as ever, the only thing convoluted though, is trying to figure out what turns a person into one with the kinds of views and outlooks you have on this world we live in. No question it had to of took decades, but one can only wonder what kind of situations led to this kind of warped view of reality. You verbally attack people(whom you refer to as troofers) here on a daily basis, people who you think are stupid, and insane. You seem to have a complete disgust with these people, yet here you are like the faithful 9/11 conspiracy debunker bully, day in and day out.

Your last paragraph is typical behavior from you and your pals...

You can attempt to "call me out" as much as you like but in the end the facts still support my position and still refutes yours- making up stories that 9/11 was an inside job is convoluted enough, but making them even more convoluted by claiming it was to frame one of the most worthless places on the Earth is just plain absurd.

First off, the facts do not, what so ever, support your position. I called you out to make sure you were actually saying what I thought you were...you agreed you were saying what I assumed you were. It's not hard to see why you feel the way you do about 9/11, in your brain, you actually think the mujaheddin were ready to happily "let us set up shop after helping them defeat the Soviets"....I'm sorry, is this the same mujaheddin that sat for another 5 years and fought the last of the communist(soviet) Afghans that were still in power? Until they finally defeated the Afghan communists in 1996, and set up shop. Yeah, they were so fond of us, they decided to harbor our number one enemy and let him set up training facilities, culminating with the 9/11 attacks. And finally the start of our new never ending war in that "toilet of a country", with no end in sight. Because yeah, they are so fond of us Americans.

Secondly, the last sentence of the above quote of yours, is your opinion wholeheartedly. Don't put words in my mouth, your pathetic attempts to prove YOUR points are dually noted. The only people here your fooling anymore, are people who are just passing through the forum. Everyone else is so tired of the same old, same old, from guys like you, its pitiful. The reason guys like you will always be wrong, and the "troofers" and people who question 9/11 will always be right, is because they always made a effort to question the governments account of what happened that day. They have continued to bring out more facts, good and bad, that have helped to offer many people clarity, that still continue to seek to understand the whys, and hows of the 9/11 attacks. If we would of left it up to guys like you, all the public would have, barely gotten, was a 9/11 Commission report authored by Kissinger.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice

If we would of left it up to guys like you, all the public would have, barely gotten, was a 9/11 Commission report authored by Kissinger.

As a matter of interest what has the Truth Movement achieved beyond that? I can see little evidence that the TM's ideas are gaining currency in the mainstream. The opposite, actually.

I also can't see any great appetite within the TM to change this state of affairs.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

As usual G.O.D., your views are as warped as ever, the only thing convoluted though, is trying to figure out what turns a person into one with the kinds of views and outlooks you have on this world we live in. No question it had to of took decades, but one can only wonder what kind of situations led to this kind of warped view of reality. You verbally attack people(whom you refer to as troofers) here on a daily basis, people who you think are stupid, and insane. You seem to have a complete disgust with these people, yet here you are like the faithful 9/11 conspiracy debunker bully, day in and day out.

I have repeatedly said that I do not consider the truthers to be stupid or even insane. I have stated many times that the truthers are by and large intelligent and articulate people. The issue I have is with these damned fool conspiracy web sites manufacturing horse [censored] to instigate false public unrest for their own financial gain, and the truthers are simple the unknowing victims in their con game. Go ahead and do a search on my posts and you'll see me state this almost verbatim repeatedly.

You are attempting to pass off an outrageous lie and I expect a retraction.

First off, the facts do not, what so ever, support your position. I called you out to make sure you were actually saying what I thought you were...you agreed you were saying what I assumed you were. It's not hard to see why you feel the way you do about 9/11, in your brain, you actually think the mujaheddin were ready to happily "let us set up shop after helping them defeat the Soviets"....I'm sorry, is this the same mujaheddin that sat for another 5 years and fought the last of the communist(soviet) Afghans that were still in power? Until they finally defeated the Afghan communists in 1996, and set up shop. Yeah, they were so fond of us, they decided to harbor our number one enemy and let him set up training facilities, culminating with the 9/11 attacks. And finally the start of our new never ending war in that "toilet of a country", with no end in sight. Because yeah, they are so fond of us Americans.

So how does any of that even remotely justify this secret cabal wanting to frame them in some staged attack? Out of all the targets we could have framed...Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Cuba, whatever...according you you we supposedly picked the one country that was running neck and neck with North Korea for being the most reclusive and resource barren country in the world. Even Antarctica has more natural resources than they do (look it up if you don't believe me). Nothing you've posted even remotely refutes my point on how absurd the accusation is.

FYi it can be argued that Afghanistan let Bin Laden in specifically because the rest of the world walked away from Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew and noone was there to tell the Taliban to keep them out. As it was, only two countries ever recognized the Taliban as a legitimate gov't. Not even Iran wanted anything to do with them.

If we would of left it up to guys like you, all the public would have, barely gotten, was a 9/11 Commission report authored by Kissinger.

I wouldn't go that route if I were you, becuase the "New Jersey Girls" have specifically said one reason they wanted an honest and open investigation was to put all these crackpot conspiracy theories to bed. "Crackpot" was their word, not mine.

I didn't know about this store. I used to live in the west end and always considered myself a west ender until for personal reasons I was forced to spend the last thirty years of my life in the east end.

I would love to get out to take a look at the store. Do you have Jim Marrs' Crossfire in stock?

I'll have to make sure my papers are in order to travel to the west end.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

So how does any of that even remotely justify this secret cabal wanting to frame them in some staged attack? Out of all the targets we could have framed...Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Cuba, whatever...according you you we supposedly picked the one country that was running neck and neck with North Korea for being the most reclusive and resource barren country in the world. Even Antarctica has more natural resources than they do (look it up if you don't believe me). Nothing you've posted even remotely refutes my point on how absurd the accusation is.

FYi it can be argued that Afghanistan let Bin Laden in specifically because the rest of the world walked away from Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew and no one was there to tell the Taliban to keep them out. As it was, only two countries ever recognized the Taliban as a legitimate government. Not even Iran wanted anything to do with them.

There you go again, lumping everyone up together, so that just the mere questioning of 9/11 puts you into the same boat as no planers and nuked towers...I'd like to know where I made this absurd accusation you say I made, because last I checked I simply wanted to clarify that you were calling Afghanistan a toilet of a country, and that, to me anyways, the Soviets didn't agree with your statement about the country. But all of a sudden, now I am part of the 9/11 movement trying to prove that a secret cabal framed Afghanistan for the 9/11 attacks.. so we could go occupy the country??

G.O.D. your all over the place, I can only assume you guys derail these threads, with endless bickering over unrelated areas, on purpose. It's always the same people doing it, everyone knows who the ones are that do it. That's not what your trying to do here, are you? Forget I asked, because I made my points, you made yours, lets not muck up this thread any more than we already have. Sorry OP.

Jude11, I personally haven't made it out to Canada yet, been on her borders many times, but never had the pleasure to visit. If I ever make it out to Toronto though, I'll be sure to check it out. Now that you mention it though, it is surprising that there isn't more of these around. The conspiracy business seems to be a thriving one, at least judging by online ventures.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
There you go again, lumping everyone up together, so that just the mere questioning of 9/11 puts you into the same boat as no planers and nuked towers...I'd like to know where I made this absurd accusation you say I made, because last I checked I simply wanted to clarify that you were calling Afghanistan a toilet of a country, and that, to me anyways, the Soviets didn't agree with your statement about the country. But all of a sudden, now I am part of the 9/11 movement trying to prove that a secret cabal framed Afghanistan for the 9/11 attacks.. so we could go occupy the country??

Ahem...in case you've been living in a cave for the last ten years, a terrorist attack on 9/11 was traced to a terrorist organization based in Afghanistan, and because the government of Afghanistan refused to hand the leaders of said terrorist organization over for trial, the US along with our NATO allies invaded Afghanistan. Regardless of whether you conspiracy people are individually pushing LIHOP, MIHOP, controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, or whatever, the one thing you all universally agree on is that it was an orchestrated event with an ulterior motive. The very fact that you're accusing the 911 attack of being an orchestrated event necessarily means that regardless of whether the event was LIHOP, MIHOP, controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, or whatever, the ulterior motive was to specifically target Afghanistan for invasion.

SO, regardless of whether you individually believe the event was LIHOP, MIHOP, controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, or whatever, my pointing out that Afghanistan doesn't have anywhere near the resources to justify this orchestrated event is still legitimate. Likewise, regardless of whether you individually believe the event was LIHOP, MIHOP, controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, or whatever, my pointing out there are people who are specifically out to make a buck off you conspiracy theorists is still legitimate because this whole thread is about a shop in Canada ready and waiting to sell you any and every conspiracy book you could possibly want.

Do I really need to explain your own conspiracy theories to you? I mean, really?