Iraqi Soccer Players Slam 'Criminal' Bush

Grady... that post wasn't directed at you. I hope you do not feel I was talking about you. I just unfortunately know too many people that hate everyone thats not a white American.

I for one do NOT dislike you. I think you are a good poster.

Originally posted by Indy
Integrity and Liberty are very important. Here is a tough question (I think). What do you do when the leaders of YOUR country start taking away YOUR freedom. You are obligated to defend the country and the president. But what happens when the president is the problem? Which becomes more important? Protecting the country or protecting the president?

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, but we're not really there yet, even though you might think so. Our President is not really your strongest threat to your freedom. It is the marxist driven ideology that has taken over the Democrat Party that has a marxist traitor as its nominee, that is gutting your constitutional rights.

I probably won't live long enough to see this country fall, but most of you will survive until the fall begins. It will be clear to you then. The only advantage I have is having lived long enough to have some historical perspective. I've lived long enough to see the lies revealed. I came by my views the hard way. That's why I hold them so strongly.

And, Jazzerman, if the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is your idea of a true American, I really do have nothing but pity for you. There are so many fine Americans to hold in high esteem and you pick a marxist hypocrite. But, you haven't seen what I've seen.

I must admit I have found the ads and comments surrounding the Iraqi olympic team to be amazingly misleading. From the commentators at the opening ceremony, to the little inspirational olympic ads kinda thing they run.

They harp on about how amazing it is to see the Iraqi team there, and how great it was that the RAAF flew the Iraqi team to Athens and all that. All the while seemingly blind to the stunning irony of such comments.

Originally posted by Indy
Grady... that post wasn't directed at you.

We're cool, Indy. Thanks for the compliment.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I do not beleive that you can produce any example of a post in which I employ intimidation. No one would call me un-American to my face and not have to pick himself up off the ground. That's not intimidation. That's a promise.
[edit on 04/8/21 by GradyPhilpott]

You have stated here that these Americans should be ashamed of themselves for having an opinion that goes against yours and, in effect, you refer to them as Saddam apologists. You fail to recognise the fact that these people are patriotic Americans too, who disagree with the actions and motives of the current administration.

If you are so affected by my inference that the denial of liberty for those who do not agree with you is un-American, then do the right thing and state plainly here that you would defend the rights of all to freely speak their mind.

Anything else is in support of a dictatorial ideology that tolerates no other view. And, I ask you, is that American?

EDIT: Grady, I must also state that I support your right to express your views 100%, but not at the expense of denying others theirs.

[edit on 21-8-2004 by cargo]

Grady, I can tell i'd like to have you on my side.
We get into heated discussions and, as for myself, i lose it totally.
Lets face it though, none of us are going to change our minds in any of this.
You are a good patriot, but so are we.
We are not frauds- we love this country but we are viewing what is happening differently than you.
I hope all my suspicions and black helicopter theories turn out to be all wrong. For all of our sakes.

Originally posted by cargo
If you are so affected by my inference that the denial of liberty for those who do not agree with you is un-American, then do the right thing and state plainly here that you would defend the rights of all to freely speak their mind.

You won't find me denying anyones rights. I say it now as I have said it before, I put my life on the line and nearly died defending liberty, but, you won't find me sitting quietly by whille others, especially my countrymen, trash my country. Read my bio. Only my identity is protected (for obvious reasons), all else is the real me.

If you've got the guts to speak your mind, it only follows that you need the guts to live with the conseqences. Liberty never obsolved anyone of consequences. I accept mine.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Lets face it though, none of us are going to change our minds in any of this.

Very few will relent on this board, but opinions can and do change and furthermore, we all grow. When things begin to get rough, someone here may remember GradyPhilpott and his radical views and say, "You know, I never would have admitted it, but that old coot was right on the money." That one might be enough to convert millions.

[edit on 04/8/22 by GradyPhilpott]

damn, if i knew this thread was going to explode like this or if i knew indy weas going to be such an arrogant knat i wouldn't have gone to the movies. indy...the defector comment came from the link YOU POSTED!!! the link led directly to an article about a man that defected to america in '96.

I didn't post that link.

oh damn, sorry about that indy, really. i guess i got you and another mixed up. anyway, the defector thing came from a link Ace posted on page 1. he was trying to sell the link off as showing iraq's participation in that Atlanta olmypics and i was just telling him all it really did was tell of a guy who defected to america from iraq in 96. basically that it wasn't an article he should be using as evidence. again, really sorry about that.

Not a prob dude. I saw a story where one of Saddam's sons had broken a guys arm (or was it leg?) so badly that he had to have surgery on it. An obvious attempt to keep him from ever competing again. When it came to Iraq was Saddam really the bad man? Or was it his two kids? It seems everything bad that comes out of Iraq had to do with his kids and not him. But as a parent and a leader of the country he is responsible. Yeah his kids were adults but they were still his kids. If you do something stupid or wrong don't you still hear about it?

But my question wasn't meant to take away from the story. I am really wondering when something becomes a defection. Is it a case of leaving against your governments will or is it just leaving because you don't like the current economic/political situation in your country?

apparently the deal with saddam and his kids is saddam set the bar for badness, and his sons basically jumped over the bar. politics aside, i think we can all admit saddam DID do bad things...but man if his sons had been in power it would have been worse for the people. they tortured people for the fun of it. really, some sick stuff. but anyway, the defection question is good, i personally don't know. i'd guess it's when you publicly leave and never intend to come back. but again that's just a guess. anyone know for sure?

I will freely admit I have no idea what Saddam supposedly did. Few things I know he supposedly did was have a WMD program which in itself doesn't make you a bad person. He supposedly used a nerve agent or something on his own people. Do we know for a fact he ordered the attack? If it was even him at all. Then again we have to look at where he got those weapons. Iraq has a brutal prison system. So do alot of other countries. That doesn't make him a good man thats for sure. But it doesn't make him stand out in a crowd either. Of the things I know or think he did I think the worst was invading Kuwait.

Originally posted by Indy
That person interviewed was absolutely right. If the Chinese were occupying America you would do exactly the same thing these people are doing. If you didn't then you certainly couldn't call yourself an American. Whether your leader was a criminal or not you don't want someone invading your country. Lets face it we have had some really bad presidents in the past. Would you have been happy of the Soviets had invaded and occupied the cities? Hell no. You'd be fighting back with everything you had. Every American that owned a gun would be taking shots at the occupying forces. Why do people have such a hard time grasping that. Is it because you cannot face the fact that people don't want us in their country? That they would rather be miserable than occupied? I would deal with Hillary Clinton as president before I'd ever allow the Chinese to occupy my city. I would certainly be killed but I'd damn sure take some of them with me. It is called patriotism. Yet when someone else does it we call it terrorism. These people have an absolute right and a duty to defend themselves and their cities from occupying forces. Like it or not thats the harsh reality of the situation. If we don't like it then we should pull out. Why do we keep hanging out in Fallujah unless it is the intention to keep trouble stirred up so we can be justified in staying longer.

I hate it when people use america or compare america with another country, because we are so different but OK fine i'll respond anyway.

If I was a Iraqi citizen, I wouldn't imediatly shoot the chinese, I would want to know why there here. and if I knew they were here to help, and that they would only be here for a couple more years I would not shoot them. I would help them to make my country a better place to live.

If your country was invaded you would be willing to accept that? I don't want to be the best. I just want to be American. If I wanted to be Chinese I'd move to China.

Obviously the smart move would have been to leave Saddam in power. This way he could repress, kill and torture all these people and the US wouldn't get it's hands dirty.
Saddam could control his country through fear, now that's gone Iraqi's dpn't know what to do with themselves.

As for the Iraqi olympians, obviously they feel that soccer is more important than defending their homes from the Americans.

A great deal of healing is done through olympic sports. Look at the 1980 winter olympics and the US hockey team.

Good god! you would think that with all these self proclaimed enlightened ones running around these boards posting you might get a decent well thought out un bias post. This is for the ones that keep on using the "What if America was invaded" scenario over and over and over and over again.

If I was living under a freaken dictator, who killed a million plus people in his reign. Who tortured people, who massacred his own people. Who took money meant for aid, and instead built another palace because the 100+ he had were not enough. I would not give a dam if someone came in and knocked him out. Do you realize that if no one fired at the US over there, no one would fire back. Do you realize that they do not shoot unless shot at. What kind of super nice crap is that, can you think of another country that would do that. I will put it like this, in a fight, you want to get the first blow, its simple, but we are not doing that. We are taking the long hard road, obviously there are exceptions, but again, If I was over there, I would be happy, just like 50% of the people over there are. Get a grip if someone was coming in my Nation "America" and said hey look, we are going to stay, you are going to work in our factories, and we will be your new Dictator! Yeah I would take up arms and fight. But we are not doing that, how freaken ignorant do you have to be to not just let the troops get there job done, and get out. Is it so beyond there ungrateful ignorant ass's comprehension that they do not realize that?

Originally posted by infovacume
how freaken ignorant do you have to be to not just let the troops get there job done, and get out. Is it so beyond there ungrateful ignorant ass's comprehension that they do not realize that?

Brilliant! It's good to see a free thinker, from time to time.