10 Years later and still waiting for the Truth...

reply to post by filosophia


I meant, the majority of people. I used to check out prison planet all the time and still do. Along with Rense and a few others. Do I believe it all, no, but if you read MSM, overseas and a conspiracy website you can get about half of the actual truth from those 3 sources and you critically think on the rest to come to a conclusion as to what really happened. I have done this for years.

OBL started to threaten the US in 98. Declared jihad against America. ASa early as December 98 Clinton was told in the PDB that OBL was determined to strike the US and since the WTC was an earlier target. This was also included in the August PDB for president Bush.

It was not a new theory that 9/11 may happen, Mr Jones just brought it to light as he does many things the MSM does not.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Run our agencies...no...keep information until they need something...yes... If you look back there was alot of tension with Israel and the US in the late 90's and into the Bush administration starting with the Clinton/Arafat/Oslo Accords.

how can you just say an emphatic no? how do you know for sure that they don't run our agencies? i see michael chertoff an israeli firster running our homeland security, debunk that....


i dare you to watch this and try to debunk it......

oh and to answer your question, i don't have to wait for proof, i already have it and it would take a page the size of this entire website to present it.....

reply to post by patternfinder


Influence..yes..but that is both ways. I do not think the Mossad is running the CIA. Someone of Israeli decent achieves a status in the government and you think him a spy. thanks Mr McCarthy...

reply to post by esdad71


None are so blind as those who will not see.

The government botched nothing. They got exactly what they wanted.

reply to post by Yankee451


Thanks

Ron Paul believes the OS. This is proof that ATS should just walk away.


No one in power or employed by the powerful is on our side, despite appearances. We should at least be on our side.

reply to post by windword


Did they take advantage and loosely connect Iraq to 9/11? Sure. I never said they didnt.

But come on now, if they were going to use 9/11 as a pretext to start invading, then why couldnt they have snuck in actual WMDs into Iraq? Dont tell me they ran out of money for the main show of rigging up three buildings, faking crashes and crash sites, launching missiles and paying off thousands of people. Geeze they could magically rig up the Twin Towers and WTC7 fake a bunch of plane crashes, blow it all up to hell, and keep thousands of people quiet, and yet, they couldnt even sneak in a few nuke warheads or chemical weapons or biological weapons into Iraq EVEN AFTER they invaded it. Yeah, right. A government organization that exerted nearly omnipotent powers to pull off 9/11, and they couldnt sneak a few ol WMDs into Iraq to justify invasion. How can they be so good, and then so stupidly inept at the exact same time?

reply to post by GenRadek


It wasn't a pretext to just start invading. It was a pretext to invoke a certain mindset of revenge and fear, so that they could stoke the military complex and subdue the population. Can't do one without the other.

But, you think what you want, you're not going to change my mind. But if some are on the fence, and reading this, let them make their own judgement on the evidence, as they see it.

When I first got interested in this issue, I was pretty open to the idea that there was another party involved. But after investigating all the claims made in several conspiracy videos it became clear that all conspiracies are either based on incredulity or circumstantial evidence. The real evidence we have is jetliners hitting buildings, buildings burning, and buildings collapsing. Anything added to that (RC planes, explosives etc) lack any evidence to back it up. So far for me the "OS" is by far the best explanation available. It does not require additional theories that lack evidence. Additionally, I find a scenario where people in power are incompetent much more likely than a scenario where people in power are next to omnipotent.

On the other hand, I do not think that the authorities have been honest. I think they have abused the event and changed it into an opportunity to execute their agenda. In fact, they behaved exactly like I expect people in power to behave. So I guess the Bin Laden/Afghanistan and Iraq issue can be called a conspiracy.

reply to post by GenRadek


Thats the thing really. Of all the possible ways to achieve the goals named in the conspiracies, they choose the most complex and risky one I can think of to achieve them, according to truthers. If invading Afghanistan/Iraq was their goal, I can literally think of 1000 more efficient ways of reaching that goal, without the need of any false flag event on US soil. They can even do it under the radar for a large part. Besides, It seems to me that invading Afghanistan was pretty much fruitless, and was partly used as retaliation, both for the people in power as well as the US population (yes, I do think that many people in power are that simple minded).

So what is left is insurance money and the weapon industry. In no way I believe that insurance money could be the motive behind such an operation. And the weapon industry is equally served when another reason is used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - Arthur C. Clarke

I don't think either the 9/11 Commission Report or any of the 9/11 Truth organizations has a corner on facts.
I believe that both are guilty of pointing in directions that lead to no firm conclusions. This is why we look like dogs chasing their own tails. We are being fed a false choice of either A or B when the real answer is C

Neither fires, nor explosives, nor thermite and even nukes can account for:
The speed of the towers collapse(s)
The amount of debris left in the "pile"
The lack of damage to the WTC bathtub and rail lines beneath the WTC
The dearth of debris in the WTC tower basements.
The absolute destruction of everything within the towers (nothing bigger than half a telephone keypad?)
The lack of damage to buildings other than WTC buildings (considering the height and mass of the towers).
The amount of dust generated , beginning with the initiation of the collapses.

Until all these anomalies can be explained under one theory I will not have an answer as the How the towers were destroyed.
As for Why that is even harder to speculate upon since we don't know How it was done, we cannot know Who had the capability or therefore Why they would have wanted to in the first place.

Call me a holdout but I do not feel that either the 9/11 Commission Report or any of the 9/11 Truth organizations have sufficiently explained the evidence enough to make any real conclusions about the events of that sad day.

I will always keep seeking answers and new information.
The greatest failure we can make is to stop trying and simply accept one given explanation over another for lack of a better theory.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Neither fires, nor explosives, nor thermite and even nukes can account for:
The speed of the towers collapse(s)
The amount of debris left in the "pile"
The lack of damage to the WTC bathtub and rail lines beneath the WTC
The dearth of debris in the WTC tower basements.
The absolute destruction of everything within the towers (nothing bigger than half a telephone keypad?)
The lack of damage to buildings other than WTC buildings (considering the height and mass of the towers).
The amount of dust generated , beginning with the initiation of the collapses.

It is this kind of armchair science that keeps the conspiracy alive. There is absolutely no reason to believe that any of these claims are correct, and I suspect that all these claims are completely baseless. If not, how do you know any of these claims to be true? I can predict that you are either going to make an argument from authority or an argument from ignorance, and you won't be able to provide the physics to support any of these claims. If not, you will be the first ever I encountered to support such claims.

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by windword

 

Did they take advantage and loosely connect Iraq to 9/11? Sure. I never said they didnt.

But come on now, if they were going to use 9/11 as a pretext to start invading, then why couldnt they have snuck in actual WMDs into Iraq? Dont tell me they ran out of money for the main show of rigging up three buildings, faking crashes and crash sites, launching missiles and paying off thousands of people.

Geeze they could magically rig up the Twin Towers and WTC7 fake a bunch of plane crashes, blow it all up to hell, and keep thousands of people quiet, and yet, they couldnt even sneak in a few nuke warheads or chemical weapons or biological weapons into Iraq EVEN AFTER they invaded it. Yeah, right. A government organization that exerted nearly omnipotent powers to pull off 9/11, and they couldnt sneak a few ol WMDs into Iraq to justify invasion. How can they be so good, and then so stupidly inept at the exact same time?

i think the real issue here is that they didn't pull it off very well. they left many loose ends and they left much evidence....no one is saying that they were smart about it at all...they didn't get away with it without people noticing....there's way too many people waking up to it now... there's way less people migrating over to your side of the story....probably because they see something that you can't or won't.......

reply to post by gentledissident


911 is the litmus test.

RP fails.

Originally posted by Yankee451
RP fails.

Oh! Now you've done it. Brace yourself for the onslaught.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GenRadek

 

It wasn't a pretext to just start invading. It was a pretext to invoke a certain mindset of revenge and fear, so that they could stoke the military complex and subdue the population. Can't do one without the other.

But, you think what you want, you're not going to change my mind. But if some are on the fence, and reading this, let them make their own judgement on the evidence, as they see it.

edit on 31-8-2011 by windword because: (no reason given)

Hey that is fine if that is what you believe, but let me just leave you with this little nuance:
If someone wants to create a certain mindset to go and attack or invade someone or what have you, shouldnt you use THAT person(s) as the instigator to have the most direct response? Why go through this shoestring affiliation with flimsy hooks to hang a pretext on in order to invade? If TPTB wanted to invade Iraq, under pretext of "WMDs" , but created the "false flag" of 9/11 using Saudis, then how can someone stretch that "mindset" of revenge from "those damn goat-humping terrorists" to "that damn camel-humping Iraqi with the WMDs"? And then in order to invade under that "WMD" pretext, why couldnt they actually "plant" WMDs in Iraq in order to justify it? I mean they allegedly "created" and "planted" everything else and faked the attacks, how much harder would it have been to sneak in a nuke warhead or two in a vast expanse of desert that is Iraq? Even AFTER invasion?

To me it's not a question of waiting for the truth - the truth is out in the public domain. It's a question of waiting for those responsible to be charged and tried. ..... I'm not holding my breath on that one, though.

Originally posted by patternfinder


i think the real issue here is that they didn't pull it off very well. they left many loose ends and they left much evidence....no one is saying that they were smart about it at all...they didn't get away with it without people noticing....there's way too many people waking up to it now... there's way less people migrating over to your side of the story....probably because they see something that you can't or won't.......

Ok now that is fine, but wait a sec....... where are all those people that helped perpetrate 9/11? Let us not mince words here, I mean they would have required to have thousands in on it, including FDNY, NYPD, PA, to name but a few. Why hasnt anyone stepped forward, blew a whistle, or slipped up? How can TPTB be so tight lid and have everyone so well contained on 9/11, and then in the same breath be totally inept, to flub a whole pretext to invasion of Iraq and WMDs, or fail to keep secrets like Abu Grahib or secret CIA prisons? How? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by windword

 

Did they take advantage and loosely connect Iraq to 9/11? Sure. I never said they didnt.

But come on now, if they were going to use 9/11 as a pretext to start invading, then why couldnt they have snuck in actual WMDs into Iraq? Dont tell me they ran out of money for the main show of rigging up three buildings, faking crashes and crash sites, launching missiles and paying off thousands of people.

Geeze they could magically rig up the Twin Towers and WTC7 fake a bunch of plane crashes, blow it all up to hell, and keep thousands of people quiet, and yet, they couldnt even sneak in a few nuke warheads or chemical weapons or biological weapons into Iraq EVEN AFTER they invaded it. Yeah, right. A government organization that exerted nearly omnipotent powers to pull off 9/11, and they couldnt sneak a few ol WMDs into Iraq to justify invasion. How can they be so good, and then so stupidly inept at the exact same time?

i think the real issue here is that they didn't pull it off very well. they left many loose ends and they left much evidence....no one is saying that they were smart about it at all...they didn't get away with it without people noticing....there's way too many people waking up to it now... there's way less people migrating over to your side of the story....probably because they see something that you can't or won't.......

Thanks for the reply with an actual opinion of your own.I have a few questions though...

What evidence are you talking about and who is waking up? That is the point of this thread. The only people waking up are generally young, impressionable people between the ages of 18-31. A demographic and alot if you have bought into it. You see, if you are ingrained with the thought that the government is evil then you will listen to anyone who then states that the government is evil. Non-critical thinking.

Also, based on the OP, I am trying to show that there is nothing new and what is the wait for? The evidence is there to get through FOIA but for some reason no one wants to. If you are that emotional that is was a conspiracy, start your our site with NEW evidence.