Wow... England Needs A Revolution...

reply to post by Mister_Bit


I consider most of those things a good thing. I think unions had their time, but got greedy and do nothing but drive up costs and truly hurt the consumer. Private property rights are always good, and private business ownership is where an individual can truly build wealth and opportunity. As for the poll tax, I agree, that was crap.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

I consider most of those things a good thing. I think unions had their time, but got greedy and do nothing but drive up costs and truly hurt the consumer. Private property rights are always good, and private business ownership is where an individual can truly build wealth and opportunity. As for the poll tax, I agree, that was crap.

That's why she divided the nation, those who support capitalism and free markets crushed those who weren't rich enough or in the position to help themselves.
Those doing the crushing, raping and looting loved her.

Thatcher stole children's milk for god's sake!

England does need a Revolution, Just like America needs one too, The same that is happening in America, with Outsourcing our jobs, the Elite getting richer, the Middle class dissappearing, CEO's of major companies making more money than their entire company getting taxed. England just followed in the footsteps of America, and now they are Broke, printing money fatser than the printer can print, heck I bet the ink isnt even dry before they spend that printed money. England, America whats the difference now, both countries are screwed. So sad. I was born in England and to see what is happening over there and here "US" makes my blood boil..... The End will be soon if nothing is done to stop this rediculious way, both countries handle there Spending, Printing of money, selling the jobs to overseas. Third world countries are about to get two new countries to join the list, Yep Britain and America.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by The X

 

English taxes go to the same bankers.

We are in the same boat my friend....I live in North East England and there are areas here that differ little from post-war or even earlier times.

I certainly don't want to sound like some whinging Northerner but we have been screwed over as much as anyone in the UK.

And as a Southerner (you can't get more South than the South Country) we have equally been screwed... where you made things we produced food.. and where there are now closed factories and empty pits we have empty fields... each taking jobs and wealth from the local populations...

To really turn the situation around the factories need to be opened the fields restocked and we as a nation need to produce again.. There is a local saying that when the dew ponds that run along the South Downs dry up the country will die.. and it seems to me we are heading in that direction.

reply to post by Swanfilters

it's time we pulled out and watched the Scottish and Welsh big talk come crashing down to the reality of the situation - they are NOTHING without England.

Yeah right! Scottish Oil money has been keeping the UK together for years. Your attitude stinks, nothing without England, don't make me laugh you cretin.

Scottish Inventors and Inventions The average Englishman in the home he call his castle slips into his national costume, a shabby raincoat, patented by Chemist Charles Macintosh from Glasgow, Scotland. En-route to his office he strides along the English lane, surfaced by John Macadam of Ayr, Scotland. He drives an English car fitted with tyres invented by John Boyd Dunlop, Veterinary Surgeon of Dreghorn, Scotland. At the office he receives the mail bearing adhesive stamps invented by John Chalmers, Bookseller and Printer of Dundee, Scotland. During the day he uses the telephone invented by Alexander Graham Bell, born in Edinburgh, Scotland. At home in the evening his daughter pedals her bicycle invented by Kirkpatrick Macmillan, Blacksmith of Thornhill, Dumfriesshire, Scotland. He watches the news on television, an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland, and hears an item about the U.S. Navy founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland. Nowhere can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots. He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks up the Bible, only to find that the first man mentioned in the good book is a Scot, King James VI, who authorized its translation. He could take to drink but the Scots make the best in the world. He could take a rifle and end it all, but the breech-loading rifle was invented by Captain Patrick Ferguson of Pitfours, Scotland. If he escaped death, he could find himself on an operating table injected with penicillin, discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming of Darvel, Scotland, and given chloroform, an anesthetic discovered by Sir James Young Simpson, Obstetrician and Gynecologist of Bathgate, Scotland. Out of the anesthetic he would find no comfort in learning that he was as safe as the Bank of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries, Scotland. Perhaps his only remaining hope would be to get a transfusion of guid Scottish blood which would entitle him to ask: "Wha's Like Us?"

Enjoy.

reply to post by Mister_Bit


That's where I guess we see the world differently. I see it through the glasses of "If you get an education, get a skill, work hard, keep out of trouble, don't do drugs or become an alcoholic, save, invest, things will be okay. Let me fail or succeed on MY merit, not by the hand of a government who gives to me in one hand and takes from me in the other."

I think everyone has opportunity to succeed, if they want it bad enough.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

That's where I guess we see the world differently. I see it through the glasses of "If you get and education, get a skill, work hard, keep out of trouble, don't do drugs or become an alcoholic, save, invest, things will be okay. Let me fail or succeed on MY merit, not by the hand of a government who gives to me in one hand and takes from me in the other."

I think everyone has opportunity to succeed, if they want it bad enough.

Which is all fine and dandy if you're from a position to afford an education, healthcare etc etc...

What of those people who can't afford an education? With the fees going up another £9000 recently.
Or if you learn a skill... say like working in steel, or ship building or mining say... and then having them sold to private companies and you lose your job, can't afford to pay your bills let alone send your kids to university.
And it's not even the case of staying out of trouble, if you can't afford to live you get a criminal record for non payment.
Not everything is black and white... not everyone in poverty is there by choice... I wish you knew how much this makes my blood boil. Do you think people choose to be in poverty living hand to mouth? Seriously? and a lot of them are there through corporate or governmental greed. Sure there are the lazy but not everyone claiming benefit wants to and are not lazy.
Then you get those who say "well move to where the work is".... so how do you do that if you can't even afford to live in the house you live now?

Yeah, I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else, to hell with a social conscience, I guess all this talk of national pride is nonsense.. after all, a nation is it's people and if you don't care for the people you can't care for the nation.

Just a personal rant lol but that's the problem with the world today, those without a social conscience rise to power because they could care less about the people.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by The X

 

English taxes go to the same bankers.

We are in the same boat my friend....I live in North East England and there are areas here that differ little from post-war or even earlier times.

I certainly don't want to sound like some whinging Northerner but we have been screwed over as much as anyone in the UK.

And as a Southerner (you can't get more South than the South Country) we have equally been screwed... where you made things we produced food.. and where there are now closed factories and empty pits we have empty fields... each taking jobs and wealth from the local populations...

To really turn the situation around the factories need to be opened the fields restocked and we as a nation need to produce again.. There is a local saying that when the dew ponds that run along the South Downs dry up the country will die.. and it seems to me we are heading in that direction.

I love the South Downs. Whenever I am there I see Alfred fighting for our burgeoning nation..

Rich land, rich history

Many have tried to kill the soul of it, and all have failed


Until now.

It sickens me to the core. All of these skills and know how going to waste. We have the ability to create marvelous things and be useful to the world and the ability to feed our people yet tptb have gelded us.

I have to say European political news doesn't make a lot of headlines in Western Canada, but as a Self appointed political analyst I always try to keep up with this stuff. I never got a lot about those riots last month, was it just social angst, or are people in England actually ready for a revolution?

Good Post OP and very very true. Sad state of affairs to be perfectly honest. Biding my time, gonna be out of here as soon as I can

reply to post by EvanB


I grew up with the SouthDowns full of sheep and cattle and fields full of crops and now... like every where else in Britain it is turned into something non functional while we import the things we have the means to produce ourselves... a sad day.. which I hope the sun will set on soon so we can rebuild this nation.

As pretty as the landscape it reminds me of those fine stately homes that have no life and no soul.. which is what I fear we will become if nothing is done to reverse the damage.

Originally posted by CanuckTruthSeeker
was it just social angst, or are people in England actually ready for a revolution?

Neither! The rioters were youth who have no sense of responsibility or loyalty to the society in which they live. They are the ones who have never had anything demanded of them. They got bored and had no moral compass to prevent them from quenching that boredom in destructive, selfish ways. They are the product of extreme 'Liberalist' ideology and Cultural Marxism - the dismantling of order and convention throughout the school system and family.

(this is the politically correct version of my analysis)

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

That's where I guess we see the world differently. I see it through the glasses of "If you get an education, get a skill, work hard, keep out of trouble, don't do drugs or become an alcoholic, save, invest, things will be okay. Let me fail or succeed on MY merit, not by the hand of a government who gives to me in one hand and takes from me in the other."

I think everyone has opportunity to succeed, if they want it bad enough.

edit on 31-8-2011 by navy_vet_stg3 because: Edited to fix a fat finger....

But there are those that did get an education, got more than just one skill, even served in the army, didn't do drugs, saved and invested who STILL have ended up on their arse.
What skills are we supposed to have now?
What was ripped from beneath our feet was our destiny's to become Miners, potters, steel workers, workers of the land etc. Pure unadulterated hands on skills. Now our skills are no longer required, our industry taken elsewhere and bulldozed to make way for outpriced paper thin houses for the commuter who can afford the train fare everyday to work, of course they wouldn't dream of spending their cash within their new community either.

Moving isn't an option for some of us for many reasons, some even as simple as having a deep love and connection of our area and our roots that leaving would feel like betrayal.

Originally posted by CanuckTruthSeeker
I have to say European political news doesn't make a lot of headlines in Western Canada, but as a Self appointed political analyst I always try to keep up with this stuff. I never got a lot about those riots last month, was it just social angst, or are people in England actually ready for a revolution?

A lot of it was just thuggery and opportunist thieves.
However there is an underlying anger in the people I speak to at least and no-one can deny the rich are getting richer and the poorer are footing the bill for this banking crisis and nobody can deny that social issues do create the people.
The poorer have no prospects or even opportunity to help themselves, they have nothing to lose so the frustration boils over so the riots became a small way to "stick it to the man"

I in no way condone the riots that just happened.

People are angry but not to the point of revolution, not yet.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Which is all fine and dandy if you're from a position to afford an education, healthcare etc etc..

Last time I checked, every child in England gets an education up to 16 for free, and if they want to take their "A Level's" they can stay on until 18. This is the same as in the U.S. going through their senior year. My formal education stopped after high school. I joined the military and furthered my education there. Once out, I worked my way up, and I'm now a senior engineer at a large software company. Healthcare can always be purchased through an employer. If not, most hospitals will settle for less, and there are plenty of charity organizations to help.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
What of those people who can't afford an education? With the fees going up another £9000 recently.

Student loans. Or, maybe mommy and daddy should save. My son is going to a community college, because that's what we can afford. He'll do 2 years, then transfer to a University. There are ways, if people want to go. It's not the working stiff's responsibility to pay for someone else to go to college/university.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Or if you learn a skill... say like working in steel, or ship building or mining say... and then having them sold to private companies and you lose your job, can't afford to pay your bills let alone send your kids to university.

Are you saying that private companies don't employ anyone? I'm not following your logic here. Surely, the steel company employed someone. It has to produce steel, does it not?

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
And it's not even the case of staying out of trouble, if you can't afford to live you get a criminal record for non payment.

We haven't had that problem over here. Debtors prisons are outlawed in most state Constitutions. Not the U.S. Constitutions, but the states.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Not everything is black and white... not everyone in poverty is there by choice... I wish you knew how much this makes my blood boil. Do you think people choose to be in poverty living hand to mouth? Seriously? and a lot of them are there through corporate or governmental greed. Sure there are the lazy but not everyone claiming benefit wants to and are not lazy.

No, I don't think that. In fact, I grew up dirt poor. My dad didn't work due to a spinal problem, and my mom worked 2nd shift soldering PC boards for just over minimum wage. We managed, didn't have much, but took advantage of every opportunity we did have. We didn't make excuses, or blame someone else. It was the hand we were dealt and we made the most of it. My sister managed to get a Bachelor's Degree and I did what I did. I understand that some people are poor because life just sucks sometimes. But, it's still not an excuse to be bitter or blame someone else. I agree that corporations and governments don't generally give a damn. A corporation is responsible to its share holders. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. Governments just bleed a country dry. Trickle up poverty is the goal.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Then you get those who say "well move to where the work is".... so how do you do that if you can't even afford to live in the house you live now?

I understand. Why not think of something else. Maybe try and start a business. Maybe try to better yourself in some way, and make yourself more marketable to an employer. I don't have a magic answer to this, but crying about it won't fix it. That's a guarantee.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Yeah, I'm alright Jack, screw everyone else, to hell with a social conscience, I guess all this talk of national pride is nonsense.. after all, a nation is it's people and if you don't care for the people you can't care for the nation.

I never once said "screw everyone else". I'm merely saying that a hand up is much better than a hand out. People who become dependent on government will destroy the society. People need to WANT to better themselves. You'll never get rich by cashing a government check.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
Just a personal rant lol but that's the problem with the world today, those without a social conscience rise to power because they could care less about the people.

I have a social conscience. I believe that empowering people is a more powerful tool than simply feeding them. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for life.

reply to post by Mister_Bit

Which is all fine and dandy if you're from a position to afford an education, healthcare etc etc... What of those people who can't afford an education? With the fees going up another £9000 recently. Or if you learn a skill... say like working in steel, or ship building or mining say... and then having them sold to private companies and you lose your job, can't afford to pay your bills let alone send your kids to university.

All education and healthcare is free in the UK.
If you decide to go to Uni, you will have to pay. Not upfront but you are given loans.
I do agree that degree courses should be free in the areas of Mathematics and the Sciences which will benefit our Country in the long run.

Those taking worthless degrees (which there are many) hopefully students will think twice about taking them. Btw student bars are thriving, what does that mean?

You can't keep an industry there just because it employs people with skills. It's all about supply and demand with import and export taken into consideration.

reply to post by DBCooper71


really than since I am upper-middle class I cannot wait ... sorry wait does this line of thought apply to the US as well...? Maybe I should move to the UK before the revolution...or towards the tail end of it...

dont start to hate the middle-class, I work 60hr weeks and have alot of bills, stress and problems the same as the rest of you "working class" as you put it... I am smart enough to have enough saved to survive a year or so unemployed, but I had to work my arse off saving this money...no new iphone for me...

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by CanuckTruthSeeker
was it just social angst, or are people in England actually ready for a revolution?

Neither! The rioters were youth who have no sense of responsibility or loyalty to the society in which they live. They are the ones who have never had anything demanded of them. They got bored and had no moral compass to prevent them from quenching that boredom in destructive, selfish ways. They are the product of extreme 'Liberalist' ideology and Cultural Marxism - the dismantling of order and convention throughout the school system and family.

(this is the politically correct version of my analysis)

What you actually mean is the failure of immigrant families to integrate into our social norms, causing a lack of discipline amongst the offspring (which explains the large number of Ethnic-on-Ethnic murders in our major cities), compounded by a police force so restricted by politically correct policies that they feared to start throwing around truncheons just incase someone cries racism and discrimination. Add on a bunch of thick as sh*t white kids thinking they are the same, and you have a bunch of feral scum causing damage for their own gain.

Star for you OP!

Where to start with this country?

Ok, well, let's look.

This country can be summed in one sentence!

Too many people taking out, not enough putting in!

As far right as this sounds but actually if this country was left to it's own people, there wouldn't be a problem. Uncontrolled immigration has created overpopulation, has further increased the welfare bill to over 150 billion a year! Has added further pressure on to the public services. The Police report that areas where there is a significant percentage of immigrants, there is a signifcant rise in crime. The NHS is snowed under! Maternity services are overstretched from the increase by non-British nationals who are having kids like no tomorrow. Then there is social housing, every council that I have ever had contact with has very openly stated that the points system in favourable towards the perceived most vulnerable, non-British nationals are classed as most vulnerable! Schools are giving places to these kids, while local kids have to travel miles to get a school place!

However, I don't blame immigrants!

This country has a benefit system like no other, totally open to abuse. The governments of the last three decades, but especially the last decade, has allowed generations of demotivated Brits to grow lazy and idle and prosper from the work of others and yet have more benefit money than what working actually pays! It pays to have kids, quite literally! The real reason of the benefit system I have explained time and time again. It is the same as the real reason behind mass immigration and increase and introduction of numerous taxes.

It is to simply erode the wealth of the Middle and Working class and raise the lower class so that in years to come there will be simply two classes. Rich and Poor. The increase in immigration is to lower wages and pay structures, this is evident not just from workers around the country saying this, but who are the first people to speak against any cap on immigration? The heads and representatives of business! The benefit system is to create reliability on the state, the threat of taking away housing and/or benefits will be greatly implemented. Already we are seeing threats to evict rioters families, I agree with this in part, but I've been telling my unemployed friends for too long. The government have you in their hand and they won't continue to give you something for nothing for much longer! It is all linked, which is why the main argument for immigration is that our own won't do the jobs, but nobody questions why and how this has happened!

This country is now the laughing stock of the world. It's identity and culture is a mix and match of everything simply to erode national identity. History is being rewritten to support the lie! Education is pathetic, these kids get fancy academic qualifications, yet cannot even string a sentence together! Our Police and Courts are too interested in PR than law and order! We create nothing, we build nothing, we produce nothing. We are governed in another country, we are treated like dirt, we are rinsed for what others can get. The most oppressed people in this country are the working class British families! England is only a name in football, England was pretty much made illegal to use by the Labour government! The English people are actually stateless! Forget the Palestinians! Who is fighting for the English? Oh wait, that's racist! English is just what you speak, not a people, that creates national identity and that is the very thing that TPTB wish to totally destroy!

A revolution? This country needs to be wiped out! We like to get involved in other country's affairs, well I ask the UN now. The English people have been oppressed for years, where are your bombs? Where are your troops to take back our land?

This country is totally finished and I mean there is no way of getting back from this. British/English people have been totally brain washed and beaten to accept this rubbish! There is no fight left! I said ten years ago that this country would become third world within 30 years and I stand by that! The best thing you can all do is get out! Canada, Australia, New Zealand, fantastic English speaking countries (for the most part) that look after their own! When you go there, you accept them and live as they do, not like over here where many people come here, spit at us and do as they please while claiming the benefits that we give them!

The only thing great about Great Britain is history, literally!

Will the last Englishman to leave England, switch off the light!