Survey Results: Origins and Evolution

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by BurningSpearess

 

That's also what I was thinking. Maybe also take out the responses from Guests so we can see just what ATS'ers think. BTW, I'm also in NOVA.

I am all for no guest responses.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Its scientific evidence that the earth was created 6,000 years ago in 6 24 hour days.

No, I didn't watch that as I KNOW the Earth is older than that. Hell, recorded history goes back further than that.

Exactly so like i suspected you really don't WANT to know... Because you will not look at the alternative evidence but yet your blindly believe something the mainstream secular science has to offer you.

Recorded history go's back further than that? Have you got anything to back up that claim or did you just simply make that up?

Languages - Ancient languages never back beyond c. 3000 B.C., and radiate outward from Mesopotamia

Ancient Historical Records - The oldest dates go back to about 3000 B.C.

The Oldest People - They do not go back before c. 3000 B.C., and were located in Mesopotamia

Conclusion - Man, whom the evolutionists claim to have come into existence over a million years ago, is said to have "stopped evolving" 100,000 years ago. Why then do we not have at least 100,000 years of civilizations, cities, and human remains?

If mankind has been on earth over a million years, as the evolutionists tell us, then why do the records of their activity only go back a few thousand years. The evidence agrees with the Bible account, not with the evolutionists. Evolutionary theory is a myth. God created everything; the evidence clearly points to it. Nothing else can explain the mountain of evidence.

Be my guest to keep your head in the sand though and dismiss the credible evidence presented to you without even looking at the facts.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Evolution is not science because it is not observable or testable, its a belief system and i would go as far as even calling darwnism a religion. The theory of evolution is flawed, but scientists won't admit it, there are huge gaps in the fossil record. Evolultion is a theory in crisis and is collapsing as scientists lose confidence in it many scientists are now switching to creation since it makes alot more sense, to believe in Evolution all common sense flys out the window. We all came from amoeba's? haha that crackpot theory is insane i don't understand how anyone could believe such deceptive lies.

I don't know where to start...

1) Evolution is observable and testable as it's classified as a SCIENTIFIC THEORY...which requires things to be observable and testable as a prerequisite. In short, you are WRONG!

2) A religion requires blind faith and isn't based on rationality or logic. A scientific theory is based on rationality and logic. Calling a scientific theory "religion" is just plain stupid and just shows that you don't even understand the basic definitions.

3) There will always be gaps in the fossil record because it requires very specific circumstances to lead to fossilizaiton. However, the fossil record is so expansive by now, it proves the theory beyond any reasonable doubt. And we also have other means of proving the theory...like analyzing DNA. And guess what! They all back up the theory. In short, your "missing link" statement is utter nonsense.

4) So scientists argue whether or not the theory is valid, right? Let's look at the FACTS, shall we? An overwhelming majority of scientists believes in the theory. Hell, there are more scientists called "Steve" (not Stephen, or Steven!) who believe in evolution than there are scientists believing in creationism. Look up Project Steve. If you actually bother looking at the facts, like the fact that we're actively using the theory in medicine today, you can't really objectively state the theory is wrong. Which explains why there's a positive correlation between the level of education and the acceptance of the theory of evolution. In short, a higher percentage of uneducated people believe in creationism...and as they become more educated, they start to face facts and reality and accept the theory of evolution for what it is...a sound theory based on rationality and logic.

You might want to read up on some facts before calling others "crackpots", because given the incredible lack of knowledge you display here, the irony in your posts is quite strong

reply to post by SLAYER69

An all powerful all knowing God which would have set everything in motion and knew how every cell he genetically programed would eventually [On his terms and time frame] develop into all sorts of creatures according to a plan he created from the very beginning in a split second or faster [he is infinite].

He would know where every particle [infinitely small] from the moment of creation [Big Bang] would eventually end up [Remember he is all powerful and all knowing] "infinite" So he would have had it all planned out before it ever occurred. This isn't a sign of weakness but rather a real sign of being truly omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient

You're obviously clever and thoughtful poster Slayer69, but read what you have put together in your reply and think about it for a moment longer, but from this angle...

If your belief in a god who is and always was, who is as you say truly omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient..how does that reconcile with a Great flood taken literally by the religious to be an event deliberately initiated by god, upon our planet and it's 'unworthy' inhabitants, apart from a single 'worthy' family?

A truly omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient entity would not have to perform a 'do over' because of a disappointing outcome of a first attempt surely?

None of it makes any real sense.

An entity with absolute knowledge and certainty of every action and every outcome to every event, not only on Earth, but in the entire Universe (or Multiverse) would be immune to disappointment or surprise at a given turn of event, as within a nano-second or in quantum terms *before* the creation of said Uni/Multiverse, it/he/she would already be fully aware of whatever event or events would provoke such things and use it's omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient position to correct these 'errors' before anything came into existence.

The flood is just one example, of instances where god has recognised a requirement to 'make a change' to a supposed plan for creation.

The Bible is full of instances of 'God's anger', 'God's wrath', 'God's sadness', 'God's coming judgement and punishment' and so on and on....this would be impossible for such a truly omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient entity for reasons already mentioned. To be disappointed one has to be surprised at a conclusion, an entity that knows everything, everywhere could not be disappointed, and it could never be surprised by unknown events.

Also any summery 'Judgement' by such an entity on a species or an individual would have surely have already been decided upon in advance of the creation of the Uni/Multiverse, by such an entity and makes the whole concept of 'free will' a totally moot point, as we on an individual and species wide level would already have been seen to be good, bad, worthy, unworthy, moral, immoral, saved or condemned long before not only any of us had existed, but before the whole of 'creation' had existed too!

Think about it.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Why then do we not have at least 100,000 years of civilizations, cities, and human remains?

But we do have human remains. Cities go only as far back in time as agriculture (aka neolithic revolution)..

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


i take the approach that homo sapiens are new to the planet, vs. the planet's age, but before we were here, the reptilians and amphibians were here and clearly some of them were bipedal and upright, capable of communicating, otherwise, how does a serpent lose legs he never had.

I'd say I'm deeply religious and this is maybe one of the reasons I didn't care much such survey. Atheists on the other side obviously had once again strong compulsion to fight against their creator and demonstrate their rebelion

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Your short snarky comments will get you no where in a debate like this, nore will linking to Darwinism websites which prove nothing more that your secular indoctrination from society has a hold on you.

Your correct on one account.
Actually, nothing will get me anywhere in a "debate" like this...because its not a debate, it is a demand for ignorance on its highest order. You will dismiss anything that refutes your fantasy book simply with it being against your belief, so its invalid.
Meaning, there is no discussion about the merits of each study, etc. The bible speaks of a mountain you can climb up and see all the kingdoms of the earth from a single vantage point. This means it is a flat earth. I assume you do not buy into this nonsense science of it being a sphere then, right...or is that just too much even for you.

Yes, your correct...there is nothing a powerful deity could not do...be it allow a human to live inside the belly of a big fish (said fish, not whale..a whale is a mammal, not a fish, and since the bible is perfect, we are talking this thing was a grouper or something, not even a whale).
You would think though that with a limitless deity, he could have done a better job at creating a more focused race of slaves...you know, dull down the reward center of our brain a bit so we aren't consumed by desires and able to focus in on the more spiritual stuff...clearly a design flaw, dontcha think?
no, of course you don't.
Enjoy your mountain..

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


You are soooo wrong...yet continue to pretend you're correct. PLEASE start reading up on facts before continuing to preach nonsense!

Recorded history go's back further than that? Have you got anything to back up that claim or did you just simply make that up?

I can back it up...and so could you if you actually bothered to research stuff before making hogwash claims that aren't based in reality.

Languages - Ancient languages never back beyond c. 3000 B.C., and radiate outward from Mesopotamia

Ancient Historical Records - The oldest dates go back to about 3000 B.C.

The Oldest People - They do not go back before c. 3000 B.C., and were located in Mesopotamia

Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in Africa in the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago. By the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic period (50,000 BP [Before Present]), full behavioral modernity, including language, music and other cultural universals had developed.

Source

If mankind has been on earth over a million years, as the evolutionists tell us...

But they don't tell you that...PLEASE read up on the theory, because you don't seem to understand the actual content of it

Be my guest to keep your head in the sand though and dismiss the credible evidence presented to you without even looking at the facts.

Right back at you! Your claims are DEMONSTRABLY incorrect. I've posted the evidence for that above. So unless you refute those, all you're doing is the very thing you accuse others of...keeping your head in the sand.

Don't be ignorant towards FACTS!

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac

 

Actually the Gospals of the new testament haven't changed at all.

And when were they compiled? Let's just go with the obvious ones, the KJV and the Catholic Douay.

OK, I'll do the footwork.

The Douay–Rheims Bible (pronounced /ˌduːeɪ/ or /ˌdaʊeɪ ˈriːmz/[1]) (also known as the Rheims–Douai Bible or Douai Bible, and abbreviated as D–R and DV) is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English made by members of the English College, Douai, in the service of the Catholic Church. The New Testament portion was published in Reims, France, in 1582, in one volume with extensive commentary and notes.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Authorized Version, commonly known as the King James Version, the King James Bible or simply the KJV, is an English translation by the Church of England of the Christian Bible begun in 1604 and completed in 1611.

en.wikipedia.org...

That's an interesting read. LOADED with politics. OK, let's talk politics. I think it takes more faith to believe that the Gospel is the same as originally written than it is to believe in a Supreme Being.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Gorman91

 

I already answered it, and the fact you believe something to be truthful that's not even written in scripture yet claim to be a Christian is absurd. Using the argument "North america is not written in scripture" so why you believe in it is a pathetic argument that has no merit. Personally ive never been there so i idk 100% it exists only from what ive been told. Genesis tells us of our origins and evolution is clearly not included, so believing it to be an absolute truth would be a grave mistake on your part. Continue believing the lies nenothtu tells you him and others can pm you all day about me for all i care, the very fact you take notice of what they say show's where your true intentions lay.

Lies?

I KNOW I didn't hear that right.

YOU accuse ME of telling lies?

Lemme clue you in about something - I live in North America. I know for a fact that it exists!

Lemme clue you in to something else - I'm an Indian. We aren't mentioned in the Table of Nations in Genesis, which clearly, and in great detail, tells how every people on Earth came about from the sons of Noah. By your logic, therefore I DO NOT EXIST. Yet I somehow manage to mash these keys and cause you all manner of consternation... even though I don't exist.

There comes a time when one is instructed to give over false teachers to their reprobate mind for processing by the Almighty, and that time is getting perilously close for you.

I'm gonna step back and do a gut-check, and you probably ought to take a minute to do a soul-check.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


What about the fact that small-scale agriculture dates back to 7000 BC in Egypt. Or the fact that the dog has been domesticated for 15,000 years. Also, proto-writing dates back far beyond Sumer. We have evidence of symbols that were used continuously for 20,000 years. And there's the Vinca signs that from the 7th to 6th millennium show a distinct evolution culminating in the Tartaria Tablets of 5300 BC that give the distinct impression of text. The Dispilio Tablet of the 6th millennium BC is much the same.

Originally posted by snarfbot
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

yea im somewhat familiar with it, as a branch of string theory. again, it doesnt disprove the existence of god, its just a means of describing the peculiar physical laws that apply on a quantum scale.

Nothing will ever disprove a deity, or a unicorn, or anything else supernatural that in its very form is immeasurable. It is by its very nature unproveable, but also unable to dismiss if you want to insist on it.

Here is the thing...God is not disproven...neither are 4000 Gods. Why do you just pray to one...can you disprove 3999 others? You can't, so therefore they must be real, right?

the problem with most of these theories is that they cannot be proven empirically, they might make some mathematical models work better, but again thats just another abstraction. it may not, and probably doesnt accurately reflect reality, which is why i think people should have an open mind in regards to the existence of god, agnosticism am i right.

Of course, but an open mind means you must remain open...the second you start giving absolute answers is when your mind shut down
God = a shut mind. I don't know how it happened, therefore I know how it happened..God magicked it.

Religion/Deitys is the sign of a mind no longer open...they simple assign a general answer to any mystery still out there out of laziness perhaps, or just a old habit when we assigned deitys to weather and animal attacks, etc...it allows us to pretend to understand the universe and no longer worry about seeking truth.

I am agnostic atheist...I also do want to know the truth about stuff. the agnostic bit means I do not know...the atheist bit means I do not believe in deitys. I have no special knowledge therefore I won't believe in a deity until a time where proof comes.

atheism on the other hand, rejects the possibility of a god, and then turns around and ascribes their beliefs to science, which does not in fact support them.

No, Atheists do not reject the possibility of a god, an atheist only asks for proof that can be validated, same with unicorns, bigfoot, aliens, etc...proof -may- indeed come one day, but until that day, no need to make saddles for the great unicorn rides we will all have one day.

reply to post by SaturnFX


you just brought up something pertinent to this debate.
can you please indicate which verse you refer to, specifically, because if it's the one i think it is,
that mountain ain't on the planet, but above it. floating. holy mountains were floating flying thingies, that could land or hover or float or zoom off.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
My post about bitterness was not directed at you but towards another member...

I understand. However, I felt a level-headed perspective might help.

and stand up to defend the atheistic faith

Atheism is a choice of no faith, and it's never been any secret that I'm an atheist.

i wouldn't be surprised if you start to remove religion altogether

As a rabid defender of free expression, doing so would go against my core ideals. I staunchly support the rights of anyone to believe whatever they like, and express their beliefs freely.

If "Truth" is discovered through a persons individual journey then that means there is no "absolute truth"?

Certainly. It's found through study, testing, and science.

so there has to be an absolute truth, and we find this in the bible.

I appreciate your veracity regarding your faith, but there are other faiths, and other highly-regarded leaders of many faiths who understand that spiritual truth may not be limited to one sacred text.

There for your "personal truth" is not a truth at all

There's no way you can know that.

we are simply aware that they are wrong, and are heading for eternal damnation unless they accept Jesus as there lord and savoir, which many men are unable to do because they are unable to swallow their pride and put someone else above them.

There are many reasons to reject the God of Abraham (via both Judaism and Islam) or his son Jesus (via Christianity), that have nothing to do with pride.

Lets be honest, the only hateful messages i see on these forums are from atheists.

Telling me I'm damned, a sinner, and headed for eternal strife if I don't believe as you is inherently hateful and downright mean. It's difficult for Christians to understand that, but drop-dead obvious for non-Christians.

Its not in a Christians nature to want to write hateful or derogatory things about others...

You just did about me.

i would not be surprised if your apart of the masonic order or another secret society

Funny. Even if I were to feel compelled, I could not stomach their beliefs, nor would they want me.

Like i said just because you fell from grace...

There you go again tossing around the derogatory insults you claim not to do.

and got deceived into believing the evolution hoax and brought into secular science doesn't disprove the bible or the story of Genesis.

I never, ever, claimed the science of biological evolution disproved the Bible.

However, your choice of words are interesting. The creationists often attempt to dismiss evolution because it's "just a theory." Perhaps secularists dismiss the Biblical creation because "it's just a story." Semantics can be a difficult game.

All it means is your yet another person who has fallen for the grand deception evil forces have brought to this world.

More derogation. That's, what, three times within a post where you claim never to have done it?


I hope some day you find within yourself the capacity for understanding, tolerance, and acceptance.

reply to post by undo

Oh cool! Flying mountains! This book is legit for sure! Are there also unicorns and elves?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

you just brought up something pertinent to this debate.
can you please indicate which verse you refer to, specifically, because if it's the one i think it is,
that mountain ain't on the planet, but above it. floating. holy mountains were floating flying thingies, that could land or hover or float or zoom off.

It doesn't speak about it moving..its a mountain, not a spaceship
And even if it was a spaceship, there is still no vantage point you can get where you see all the kingdoms at once

Still, I don't reject that idea..its cool.
Anyhow, its Matthew 4:8 (where the devil and jesus were having lunch and discussing politics)

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by undo

 

Oh cool! Flying mountains! This book is legit for sure! Are there also unicorns and elves?

edit on 30-8-2011 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

yep, cause a holy mountain is a space ship, for lack of anything else to compare it to
now that you done giggled at me (hehe), i'm gonna give you the 1-2 undo puncharoo. (egads this happy happy joy joy is getting difficult).

read this carefully:

1. And I proceeded to where things were chaotic. 2. And I saw there something horrible: I saw neither a heaven above nor a firmly founded earth, but a place chaotic and horrible. 3. And there I saw seven stars of the heaven bound together in it, like great mountains and burning with fire. 4. Then I said: 'For what sin are they bound, and on what account have they been cast in hither?' 5. Then said Uriel, one of the holy angels, who was with me, and was chief over them, and said: 'Enoch, why dost thou ask, and why art thou eager for the truth? 6. These are of the number of the stars ⌈of heaven⌉, which have transgressed the commandment of the

Lord, and are bound here till ten thousand years, the time entailed by their sins, are consummated.' 7. And from thence I went to another place, which was still more horrible than the former, and I saw a horrible thing: a great fire there which burnt and blazed, and the place was cleft as far as the abyss, being full of great descending columns of fire: neither its extent or magnitude could I see, nor could I conjecture. 8. Then I said: 'How fearful is the place and how terrible to look upon!' 9. Then Uriel answered me, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: 'Enoch, why hast thou such fear and affright?' And I answered: 'Because of this fearful place, and because of the spectacle of the pain.' 10. And he said ⌈⌈unto me⌉⌉: 'This place is the prison of the angels, and here they will be imprisoned for ever.'

. 11. And I saw a deep abyss, with columns ⌈⌈of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns⌉⌉ of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards the height and towards the depth. 12. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. 13. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains, and to me, when I inquired regarding them, 14. The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. 15. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. 16. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) ⌈for ten thousand years⌉.'

did ya read it?

now watch this

Google Video Link

^THAT is what Enoch saw. A descending and ascending pillar of energy flowing out of a super massive black hole in an active galaxy. How the sam hill did he witness that if science only came into being 300 years ago? and not only that, how'd he get to an active galaxy if ours hasn't been active for millions of years? the dude was in another GALAXY. where else in the universe are stars caught in the gravity well of a burning fiery abyss with jets of fire coming out of it beyond sight above and below it? YEHAA. i rest my case your honor.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Actually The Greek word translated “whale” is ketos(pronounced kay-tos), and it means “a huge fish (as gaping for prey).”

The Bible was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek... not in English. And both “whale” and “great fish” are English translations of the original words.

Good attempt at trying to disprove the story of Jonah though, better luck next time.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Are there also unicorns and elves?

Actually

King James Version:
Num. 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.


So, yeah.
Believe!
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