Chemtrails 303

Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by CherubBaby

 

And gaul, good job on the research, didnt know some of the thing in there,mind if I save some of those sites for future reference?

Go for it - they aren't my property!

2nd

reply to post by seeker11

After poking around, I found a total of maybe 2 Barium mines in California. These mines would not account for the statewide average as the dust from these mines probably doesn't float too far away from the source. According to my search, most Barium mines are in Nevada.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

...And I don't want to breathing in any of those things either.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by TheRealMrX
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Your other point is easily dismissed. Here is Aluminum and Barium listed by the ARB as toxics www.arb.ca.gov...

Which also lists silicon as a "toxic metal".......along with iron, calcium, nickel and potassium.

Ever tried to live without potassium or calcium or iron??

I'm sure you think this page defines what is toxic and what is not, and of course my suggestion that it does not willbe sen by you as disinformation.

But to me it is just another case of a chemmie reading something on the surface and not trying to find out anything more than a headline that supports his preconceptions.

to answer your other qwuestion - it seems to me that barium was introduced to brake pads as a replacement for asbestos in the early-mid 1990's - it generally being thought that replacing asbestos with a non-carcinogen like barium sulphate was and remains a good idea.

I am going to guess that you think this timing is significant, ans it provides a cover for "spraying" barium from aircraft? If so then perhaps you should consider the illogic of making barium dust by the ton, at sea level, in highly populated areas, as a cover for "spraying" miniscule amounts of barium - so miniscule as to be undetectable - over vast swathes of barely inhabited country and the ocean from 30,000 feet with no guarantee it'll land where "they " want it to land.

think about it just a second - the brake pads are already introducing barium....so why bother spraying at all??

But, how prevalent is Barium in brake pads? Were all brake pads suddenly using Barium fillers, or is this relegated to only a small fraction of brake pads produced?

Originally posted by Uncinus

So, if we assume you are right, and these elevate levels or Barium indicate some HUGE spraying program going on in 1990, then why did nobody notice it until 1997?


And consider these figures of 520 to 1120 ug/L from the Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, 1967:


Which they say are comparable to earlier figures, dating back to 1924.

Why do you start writing about Barium, then produce numbers for Aluminum?

Originally posted by stars15k

Yes, pollution goes up from industry, construction, mining, ground transportation, and agriculture. Oh, and dusty roads. Then, when it's not being blown about by wind or other movement in the atmosphere, it comes down. It's called gravity.
And two things no one can harness and control at whim are gravity and wind.

Mighty unusual eyesight you have. When people are looking for elements, they usually have to use some type of spectrometer. You must be very special.

I don't believe that dust from brake pads OR mining operations blows very far from the source.

And, yes I have a spectrometer in my brain.

reply to post by TheRealMrX


did it include this one for sale - for $6 million, 5 million tons of "proven deposits"?

How about abandoned sites and tailing piles? The California Superfund lists one such site here

And how many brake pads are there in California?? How many oil wells using Barium in drilling mud??

And how many barite deposits that are not actually mined?

the thing with barium is that although it is a relatively low % of the earths crust, a low % of an extremely large amount is still a large amount in its own right - ther are billions of tons of het stuff in the earth, and it is esentially ubiquitous in the atmosphere because it exists everywhere as dust

Originally posted by TheRealMrX
But, how prevalent is Barium in brake pads? Were all brake pads suddenly using Barium fillers, or is this relegated to only a small fraction of brake pads produced?

dunno how much - but if you are going to say that "excess" barium is coming from somewhere you need to show that you have accounted for this and all the other sources too.

Barium DID more or less "suddenly" arrive in brake pads to replace asbestos - I'm pretty sure it was in one of the links I provided - did you read them?? One of them discusses the properties of barium compounds vs at least 1 other alternative, and notes that the barium compound has much better thermal stability so is greatly preferred.

As for brake dust not blowing far from cars - you may well be right - but since cars are ubiquitous, and the actual amounts of barium being found are small, again you need to support your claim that it has to come from somewhere else.

I would have thought you'd have researched all this stuff before making claims - at least to the point of it not beign nes to you if not in great detail??

Originally posted by TheRealMrX
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

...And I don't want to breathing in any of those things either.

Not wanting to breath them is not really relevant to how common they are tho, is it!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Here's an excerpt from this thread:

Manufacturing Industry - The REAL Chem Trail

Here is a link to the EPA's Toxics Release Inventory (TRI)
www.epa.gov...

A detailed breakdown of sources can be found HERE


Here's a list I've drawn up showing the TOTAL amount (in pounds) of barium, aluminium and their alternate forms released over 10 years.

• 1997 - 41,479,841
  
• 1998 - 273,161,271
  
• 1999 - 367,405,383
  
• 2000 - 381,077,404
  
• 2001 - 300,338,671
  
• 2002 - 255,367,294
  
• 2003 - 252,116,329
  
• 2004 - 283,923,691
  
• 2005 - 286,765,468
  
• 2006 - 272,520,410
  
• TOTAL - 2,714,155,762
  

2,714,155,762 pounds or 1,231,120,344.6 Kilograms!

From just two chemicals.

These reports do not tell me how this stuff was released into the environment. These numbers are not pertinent. I assume the vast majority of it was dumped into / onto the ground or dumped into rivers and seas. The amount that gets airborne and setting off detectors is that which we are concerned. I wish the government was sampling the air for toxins since 1900!

Originally posted by TheRealMrX
reply to post by seeker11

 

After poking around, I found a total of maybe 2 Barium mines in California. These mines would not account for the statewide average as the dust from these mines probably doesn't float too far away from the source. According to my search, most Barium mines are in Nevada.

I don't see how that is relevant. The fact is barium is used in many things. Such as break pads, therefore as soon as these brake pads hit the market and are being literally driven all over the country side, so too does the barium get transferred all over the countryside.

Just because, say for instance, lead is extracted from a particular area, does not mean that the lead should be confined to that area. It will be used in many things, therefore transferring it all over the world. Not to mention just because there isn't a mine in a particular area, does not mean that the substance is still not present in the earth in other areas.

Your logic, is, well, less than logical.

Some other things that barium is used for...

Barium is used as a getter, a material that combines with and removes trace gases from vacuum tubes. Barium sulfate (BaSO4), a common barium compound, is used as a filler for rubber, plastics and resins. It can be combined with zinc oxide (ZnO) to make a white pigment known as lithophone or with sodium sulfate (Na2SO4) to make another white pigment known as blanc fixe. Stones made from impure barium sulfate glow when exposed to light and will glow in the dark for up to six years if intensely heated in the presence of charcoal. These stones, known as Bologna stones, were discovered near Bologna, Italy in the early 1500s and were thought to possess magical properties by alchemists.

Although all barium compounds are poisonous, barium sulfate can be safely ingested since it does not dissolve in water. It is also a good absorber of X-rays and, when swallowed, can be used to produce X-ray images of the intestinal tract.

Barium carbonate (BaCO3), another common barium compound, is used in the manufacture of ceramics and some types of glass. It is a component in clay slurries used in drilling oil wells. Barium carbonate is used to purify some chemical solutions and is the primary base material for the manufacture of other barium compounds.

Barium forms several other useful compounds. Barium nitrate (Ba(NO3)2) burns with a bright green color and is used in signal flares and fireworks. Barium chloride (BaCl) is used as a water softener. Barium oxide (BaO) easily absorbs moisture and is used as a desiccant. Barium peroxide (BaO2) forms hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) when it is mixed with water and is used as a bleaching agent that activates when wet. Barium titanate (BaTiO3) is used as a dielectric material in capacitors. Barium ferrite (BaO·6Fe2O3) is used to make magnets.

education.jlab.org...

Originally posted by Uncinus

OP, where are the actual sources of your figures? Post the documents, so people can see them in context.

Ok, the data may be a little difficult to find, but I find it hard that an infowarrior such as yourself, Unicus, doesn't know where this data is. I would assume that all you would need would be the web addresses pasted in the 'notes' section of the piece. Nevertheless, here is a link to the lab reports data compiled at GeoEngineeringWatch.org
www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

The ArizonaSkyWatch.com data is a little more difficult to find. Their website is weird. First you go to ArizonaSkyWatch.com Then you click on 'Enter Now' near the top of the page. This takes you to a page that has many tabs on the left. Click on the one that says 'AZ Water Charts'. On the 'Water Charts' page, scroll down to the lower half of the page to reveal my sources. I have to describe it to you this way in stead of simply pasting a link because, curiously their website lists all three pages as the same web address.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Adding aluminum or aluminum oxide to soil would not change the pH.

I'm afraid Mr. Mangles would disagree!

Have you attacked his veracity yet?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
So - not done by airliners then, not looking like a cloud, not done to modify the weather.......in short chaff is a well known radar jammer that wasn't sddenly being sprayed from airliners in teh mid 1990's, and it is big enough so that it is easily recogniseable under a microscope.

In short - nothing at all like teh chemtrails you would have us all believe in.

Another chemmie "evidence" fail!

You never cease to grossly misrepresent the situation, Mr. Gaul. You assert that ALL chemtrail aware citizens believe the chemtrails to be coming from airliners. This is not so. I do not believe the jet fuel is being spiked. Commercial passenger airplanes are not emitting these trails. Chemtrails are produced by fleets of military jumbo jets.

I never said that chemtrails are used to modify the weather. I don't know why they're doing it. The most logical conclusion (depopulation) is too dark for my good mind to comprehend.

The fact you concede that military aircraft routinely dump stuff is SUPPORT of the chemtrail hypothesis not EROSION as you suggest.

Originally posted by TheRealMrX

Originally posted by Uncinus

Adding aluminum or aluminum oxide to soil would not change the pH.

I'm afraid Mr. Mangles would disagree!

Have you attacked his veracity yet?

Yes, although it was mostly Jay Reynolds. See:
metabunk.org...

Most glaringly, he use the pH tests strips incorrectly.

More Mangels debunking here:
metabunk.org...

Originally posted by TheRealMrX

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
So - not done by airliners then, not looking like a cloud, not done to modify the weather.......in short chaff is a well known radar jammer that wasn't sddenly being sprayed from airliners in teh mid 1990's, and it is big enough so that it is easily recogniseable under a microscope.

In short - nothing at all like teh chemtrails you would have us all believe in.

Another chemmie "evidence" fail!

You never cease to grossly misrepresent the situation, Mr. Gaul. You assert that ALL chemtrail aware citizens believe the chemtrails to be coming from airliners.

where did I assert that??

But that does seem to be the most common version of the story - did you say previously in this thread that you had a different theory to most?

Edit: I just checked your OP - nothing in there at all about you believing that chemtrails only come from "military jumbo jets" so I will not apologise for addressing my comments to what is apparently the most widely held version of the hoax since you didn't actualy identify any other!

moreover one of your posts is specifically about chaff being used as a defence on CIVILIAN airliners - so I think you need to be a bit more honest with both us and youself here!

This is not so. I do not believe the jet fuel is being spiked. Commercial passenger airplanes are not emitting these trails. Chemtrails are produced by fleets of military jumbo jets.

what fleet of military jumbo jets is that then?

And why is it that so many chemmies keep railing against trails that are obviously left by civilian a/c??

Perhaps chemtail believers should try to come up with some concensus about what it is you think chemtrails actually are??

I never said that chemtrails are used to modify the weather. I don't know why they're doing it. The most logical conclusion (depopulation) is too dark for my good mind to comprehend.

and too illogical and to unsupported for me to take seriously.

The fact you concede that military aircraft routinely dump stuff is SUPPORT of the chemtrail hypothesis not EROSION as you suggest.

Where did I say anything about military aircraft routinely dumping stuff??

Edit: I've checked my statements here, and I am amazed that you have the gall (sic) to accuse me of misrepresenting something that I did not actually misrepresent at all - and then proceed to make several false statements about what it is you think I said!!

reply to post by TheRealMrX


I must say your research is explicable, but I can't and here is why.

Health effects of barium

The amount of barium that is detected in food and water usually is not high enough to become a health concern. People with the greatest risk to barium exposure with additional health effects are those that work in the barium industry. Most of the health risks that they can undergo are caused by breathing in air that contains barium sulphate or barium carbonate. Many hazardous waste sites contain certain amounts of barium. People that live near them may be exposed to harmful levels. The exposure will than be caused by breathing dust, eating soil or plants, or drinking water that is polluted with barium. Skin contact may also occur. The health effects of barium depend upon the water-solubility of the compounds. Barium compounds that dissolve in water can be harmful to human health. The uptake of very large amounts of barium that are water-soluble may cause paralyses and in some cases even death. Small amounts of water-soluble barium may cause a person to experience breathing difficulties, increased blood pressures, heart rhythm changes, stomach irritation, muscle weakness, changes in nerve reflexes, swelling of brains and liver, kidney and heart damage. Barium has not shown to cause cancer with humans. There is no proof that barium can cause infertility or birth defects.

www.lenntech.com...

Here is a little more for you.

Environmental effects of barium \

Some barium compounds that are released during industrial processes dissolve easily in water and are found in lakes, rivers, and streams. Because of their water-solubility these barium compounds can spread over great distances. When fish and other aquatic organisms absorb the barium compounds, barium will accumulate in their bodies. Because it forms insoluble salts with other common components of the environment, such as carbonate and sulphate, barium is not mobile and poses little risk. Barium compounds that are persistent www.lenntech.com...usually remain in soil surfaces, or in the sediment of water soils. Barium is found in most land soils at low levels. These levels may be higher at hazardous waste sites.

www.lenntech.com...

enjoy the reading.

Now for all you out there in chemtrail land may want to read this about the so called chemtrail guru Mr Carnicom and what was shown about his spectroscopic air analysis over Santa Fe.

Carnicom's Barium Conclusion Found in Error

By Jay Reynolds
link

This article discusses the recent reports at the website of Clifford Carnicom that describes the result of his spectroscopic analysis of the atmosphere over Santa Fe, New Mexico. In these reports, titled "BARIUM AFFIRMED BY SPECTROSCOPY", and "BARIUM IDENTIFICATION FURTHER CONFIRMED", Carnicom says that he has confirmed through visual light spectroscopy that barium is detected in the air at his location. My review of his results, when compared to the known signature of barium, shows that he is mistaken, and that his analysis conclusively shows that barium is in fact NOT indicated. Below I will show the facts that lead me to this conclusion, which can be confirmed by anyone knowledgeable in the field, and through examining the facts I present.

goodsky.homestead.com...

This is just a little of the article,so visit the link for the rest.

reply to post by TheRealMrX


They include all sources, air, landfill, water, etc etc.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Dear Mr Real X,

Might I be a little late to coin my 2cents worth..... - but still, hope that adding to this thread at such a late stage will reach at least some readers.

Have read some of the posts on this topic and would like to challenge all government trolls'(love that expression for them!) to forget about the barium, aluminium, breaks, etc analysis and answer me this one little question USING YOUR OWN MIND:

If you are older than 30, please think back to when you were a child. Did you see the planes making these long lines in the sky when you were but a kid? Where there long lines in the sky then? Think back a little......
No. There were none.
Me thinx not, me harties.

We lived in Italy, Treviso 2008 till Jan 2010. Not going to go into detail of how I never ever got flue in my life, and never had a temparature. Not even as a child. (maybe I am an allien...!) When I arrived in Italy from South AFrica 2008, I got the worst case of flue within 2 weeks. Not the 'usual flue' people get, the worst headache ever, nausia, terrible coughing, aching limbs... the works. It took me about 6 months to find out about these long lines in the sky, cause in South Africa we have never seen anything like it. My friends from SA would not believe me, not even in concept. I sent them photos and they were amazed. At first we all thought it is because the air is so much colder in Europe. But wait..... bare with me. Hear me out.

Then end 2009 we were approached by a company in SA that wanted to employ my hubby in 2010. There was light at the end of the chemtrail! We were going back to SA and I could once again look forward to seeing the wonderfull blue sky, the extrodanary Cumulus clouds and will be freed of this horror! So, we moved.

For the first 9 months I had to concentrate while driving cause my eyes would glue to the beautiful sky. Clouds! Real clouds! Beautiful deep blue sky! Fluffy moving growing clouds! It felt like manna from heaven. Heaven-heaven!

Then..... April 2011.....

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....

..... the children came running into the classroom shouting with the exitment that only children can: "Mam! Mam! come and see! there is a rocket in the sky making long lines!!! Is it an aeroplane, Mam, or is it a rocket?"

OH My G! The horror of it. They started spraying here.

So how is it, dear chemtrail sceptices, government trolls, that planes that made no lines here in SA, never ever in the history of South African aviation, are now making lines??? Did the sky change??? Did our eyesight change??? NO!!!

Think a little more on your own life, and you will remember a time when there were no lines in the sky. When the sky was blue. Not a soup of yak. OK, well, not talking about all you youngsters under 20.

By the way, I went to India in 2009 and even there they are spraying. Very clear very thick lines. But the disappating effect was very different from Italy.

I have always loved the sky, even as a child. Johnny Clegg, (Juluka, Savuka) our own SA white Zulu, sings about :"African Sky Blue, will you see me through? " (old song, but so applicable.) Me luvs old Juluka and have always loved the sky. I have been painting sky since..... since I could paint.

They want to limit my sky. HOW DARE THEY!!!!