Should Holocaust revision (NOT denial) be taken more seriously?

reply to post by Sternblut


I must say I very much admire the passion with which you speak, and the well thought out arguments you have presented. I would like very much to continue a conversation along similar lines, with like minded people. Feel free to message me.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by m1991

 

Just about the only thing is that they do focus on only the Jewish victims. But that's only because they were treated the worse, because the Nazis hated them the most.

All the data is there, and I see no reason to change the teaching of the events.

edit on 28-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

But again, why is it always about the Jews and the Jews only? There indeed were many other victims of this so-called "Holocaust," yet the Jews insist on making it only about them. What's most interesting is that whether or not one actually believes the official story of the "Holocaust", I think you would have to agree that, all said and done, it would easily be the greatest thing that has ever happened to the Jewish people. Think about it. It has benefited them tremendously.


reply to post by Sternblut

"Germanic" race.....I've heard stuff like this before. Do you honestly believe such rubbish?

reply to post by audiopackrat


There is no logical reason to justify Israel's existence based off the holocaust. That's like saying America's continued existence is because they lost millions in WW2. The two are independent clauses, and only someone mentally incapable of dividing the two would associate the two. The fact that millions of Jews died in WW2 at the hands of racist Germans is irrelevant to weather Israel should be permitted to exist. And personally, I'd favor fire blasting the holy land until it's nothing but glass. Ending it's curse for ever.

You are committing a strawman fallacy by saying that Jews in the holocaust being killed or not is in any way related to allowing Israel to exist.

Why shouldn't denial be taken more seriously? Some people deny that 6 million Jews were gassed or burnt in ovens during the holocaust. There is evidence of this, like for instance the fact that they were given a hair cut before they were gassed makes no sense, and the real reason being to prevent the spread of typhus.

reply to post by Bleak


Only if you choose to believe so. The fact that it happened and the benefits they gained are not linked but by your choosing. In reality, it is people's guilt to give them anything for surviving.

And for the record, it isn't only Israel. Again, it is you the viewer putting blinds over the entire continent of Africa that was also given Independence, along with the rest of the middle east. It is not that Jews only want it about them, its that you choose to only look at Jews talking about it, when in reality, about a billion people were freed because the European dogs that colonized decided randomly to grow some balls, get a consciousness and admit they did bad things.

In conclusion, the only thing making the entire events about WW2 focused on the Jews, is yourself.

reply to post by filosophia


And? They were still boxed away and tried to get rid of all because some maniac only wanted one group of people alive. Every hardship and evil to come to the Poles, the Jews, the gays, the everyone, was at the hands of them. And no matter how well they tried to take care of their "nonhuman" cargo, they were the ones whom took them and put them their in the first place.

If the murderer feeds you before he shoots you, the fact he fed you does not make his killing you any more or less evil.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Bleak

 

Only if you choose to believe so. The fact that it happened and the benefits they gained are not linked but by your choosing. In reality, it is people's guilt to give them anything for surviving.

And for the record, it isn't only Israel. Again, it is you the viewer putting blinds over the entire continent of Africa that was also given Independence, along with the rest of the middle east. It is not that Jews only want it about them, its that you choose to only look at Jews talking about it, when in reality, about a billion people were freed because the European dogs that colonized decided randomly to grow some balls, get a consciousness and admit they did bad things.

In conclusion, the only thing making the entire events about WW2 focused on the Jews, is yourself.

Okay, admit it: You made that all up as you went along.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by filosophia

 

And? They were still boxed away and tried to get rid of all because some maniac only wanted one group of people alive. Every hardship and evil to come to the Poles, the Jews, the gays, the everyone, was at the hands of them. And no matter how well they tried to take care of their "nonhuman" cargo, they were the ones whom took them and put them their in the first place.

If the murderer feeds you before he shoots you, the fact he fed you does not make his killing you any more or less evil.

Unfortunately the majority of the prisoners died during allied bombing which cut off food and water to the camps. Did you ever wonder why, if the Jews were gassed immediately upon arrival, were their bodies withered and emaciated?

The problem with talking about holocaust revision/denial is that the opposing side always takes the stance of "well, Hitler was bad, hated Jews, etc," which is a bit of an exaggeration as Hitler's underlings were more ruthless than Hitler. Hitler is really no different than Gadafi or Sadam, they supported him one year (Hitler received Time Man of the Year), and then the next year, he's throwing babies out of incubators. Oh wait, that was Sadam.

reply to post by Bleak


Not at all. What is the need to focus on the Jews but the continual bringing up if they died or not? All through school we never focused on the Jews beyond the pictures of the dead. Then we moved on to the Russian dead, then the American dead

reply to post by filosophia


Yea, and I suppose some other guy wrote.

The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people.

Granted a great deal of his mindless rambling is on economics that, to be honest, I agree with in some form, the man was clearly hateful for groups based off where they came from. IE, a racist.

As to allied bombing, as I said. Had they never chosen to clear out anything not German, they wouldn't have to have worried about it. Had they left the Jews where they were, they would never have been in any problem. Get rid of Hitler's hatred of others, and you get a pretty damn good military-industrial-political network. But he was hateful, and for that, every dead German and every bomb was worth their extermination.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by filosophia

 

Yea, and I suppose some other guy wrote.

The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people.

Granted a great deal of his mindless rambling is on economics that, to be honest, I agree with in some form, the man was clearly hateful for groups based off where they came from. IE, a racist.

As to allied bombing, as I said. Had they never chosen to clear out anything not German, they wouldn't have to have worried about it. Had they left the Jews where they were, they would never have been in any problem. Get rid of Hitler's hatred of others, and you get a pretty damn good military-industrial-political network. But he was hateful, and for that, every dead German and every bomb was worth their extermination.

But that's the problem with the holocaust myth, it justifies never ending war against Hitler-esq dictators (case in point: Gadafi). You see, there's always some dictator throwing babies out of incubators or bombing civilians, and so the U.S. always needs to intervene and take out the dictators they were financing just years before, is Hitler and Nazi Germany any different?

Hitler is seen as an almost mythical portrayal of evil, and it distorts what we know about history. Have you ever wondered why people are obsessed with world war 2 but know hardly anything about world war 1? Which is what led to the collapse of Germany and the rise of a fascist dictator in the first place.

The U.S. looks as though they are the good guys fighting the bad guys, but the propaganda is ripe on both sides. Hitler blamed all problems on the Jews, and the Allies blamed all problems on Nazism. They are both painted as Satanic, so there's not too much objectivity going on here, just a lot of name calling and insults. Oh, and lots of war. World war 2 had something like 50 million deaths, but the 6 million Holocaust deaths seem to overshadow this. It does this because of the brutality of the deaths (gassings), but when you start to research it and realize this is all a sham, then it becomes just another "babies out of incubator" stories that are meant to distract the real deaths: 60-80 million people from both WW 1 and WW 2. And history repeats itself, while they are building up this whole war on terrorism, the actual number of people the terrorists kill will be far less than the number of people the U.S. kills.

Iraq war:

3000 Americans killed on 9/11 by Arabs (I don't believe this but we'll give them that number)
4000 American soldiers killed in Iraq
1.5 million Iraqis killed by America, for retaliation against 9/11 which had nothing to do with Iraq.

So, can you spot the real holocaust?

reply to post by filosophia


I think you missed where I said I don't really care how many die in a war. War is to be fought until the last man woman and child of a way of thinking are turned to dust. I think we should have waited another year before D-day and Nuked a few German Cities. I certainly don't see as many Japanese saying their genocides didn't happen versus Germans. Maybe a few Nukes on Berlin and other cities would have pounded some sense into the scrapings that survived.

Furthermore, I actually do know a thing or two about ww1. America was fighting for German equality. And yes, had it gotten it, it never would have gone down as it did. But here's the funny thing. We actually keep this policy for the nations we attack today. We don't punish those we defeat. We reorganize their government and military, give them our best weapons and equipment, and then give them a means to provide for themselves. After all, a good 40%-60% of oil in Iraq goes to Asia. (forget which is the most recent)

And of course, most importantly, nothing you said justifies saying the holocaust was a myth. As to continued war? Necessary sacrifice. The tree of liberty demands the blood of tyrants. And we the people do doth declare a yearly sacrifice in the form of human flesh.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by filosophia

 

I think you missed where I said I don't really care how many die in a war. War is to be fought until the last man woman and child of a way of thinking are turned to dust. I think we should have waited another year before D-day and Nuked a few German Cities. I certainly don't see as many Japanese saying their genocides didn't happen versus Germans. Maybe a few Nukes on Berlin and other cities would have pounded some sense into the scrapings that survived.

Furthermore, I actually do know a thing or two about ww1. America was fighting for German equality. And yes, had it gotten it, it never would have gone down as it did. But here's the funny thing. We actually keep this policy for the nations we attack today. We don't punish those we defeat. We reorganize their government and military, give them our best weapons and equipment, and then give them a means to provide for themselves. After all, a good 40%-60% of oil in Iraq goes to Asia. (forget which is the most recent)

And of course, most importantly, nothing you said justifies saying the holocaust was a myth. As to continued war? Necessary sacrifice. The tree of liberty demands the blood of tyrants. And we the people do doth declare a yearly sacrifice i the form of human flesh.

edit on 28-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Well I'll pass on the human flesh, thanks. I wasn't trying to provide facts to prove the holocaust is a myth. I've done that before. I don't try and change people's opinions, I know it is a major hurdle for most people. I just say what's on my mind. If you want to know the facts, go here

www.holocaustdenialvideos.com

Since you're on a holocaust thread and all I'll assume you are at least slightly interested in the topic. But I must say I am a bit offended by your view of necessary sacrifices in the form of human flesh. And I can't help but notice you have a Ron Paul picture below your name. I don't think Ron Paul enjoys sacrificing human flesh.

reply to post by filosophia


Read between the lines. Ron Paul is all for defending the home land, but he rules only by the constitution. If anyone ever came over to America to invade, he would unleash just the same kind of hell I am describing.

Learn the concept of relativity. What I speak of is relative to the fact that we were in WW2.

You should know something about me and my thoughts on war. I have no rules. I am always civil in peace. Respectful, helpful, overall good. But if I were ever a general in war, I take the Patton approach. Exterminate everything. Leave nothing alive. This is the only way to be feared in war, loved in peace, and respected in competition.

If you feel offended, look at yourself. You claim those photos of the dead are merely diseased people, failing to notice that had they Germans not have moved them to begin with, they would never have been in that position.

If I was a general in WW2, I would honestly have waited until we had nukes, and then begin an absolute genocide of the German race, ending when they surrendered. I have mercy always in war, but no compassion.

Hi,

My side of the story,
My grandma from my fathers side has been on a train to a concentration camp in Poland, she was smart enough and had the courage to escape at a transfer station. From my mothers side my grandma talked her way out of goig to the camps by offering to clean German officesrs quarters, after kissing his boots. My familly is not Jewish.
However, they had the smarts to do something about it, no matter how brave or how degrading it was.

Please dont forget that alot of Jewish people have condemned other Jews to death to save there own lives.

My spin on this- if you not willing to fight for your life perhaps you don't deserv it - just like your freedoms.

reply to post by Gorman91


Prior to WWII the Zionists were lobbying to have a 'jewish homeland' in Palestine, were they not? (see the Balfour Declaration to Rothschild) After WWII they got their wish. So, yes, the holocaust hoax helped (and still helps) the existence of Israel. Israel was created under the guise of a 'jewish homeland', but the real reason was so the international bankers could have their foot in the door in the Middle East to eventually take over the resources of the entire region and submit everyone contained therein to their usury-based monetary system. That is exactly what is happening right now. ...and they are using the same playbook; install a puppet dictator, spread internal conflict, fund both sides, send in the troops to 'liberate' and 'spread democracy', and eliminate the 'evil-doers'. Result? More slaves to the system, and another notch for the NWO.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by filosophia

 

Read between the lines. Ron Paul is all for defending the home land, but he rules only by the constitution. If anyone ever came over to America to invade, he would unleash just the same kind of hell I am describing.

Learn the concept of relativity. What I speak of is relative to the fact that we were in WW2.

You should know something about me and my thoughts on war. I have no rules. I am always civil in peace. Respectful, helpful, overall good. But if I were ever a general in war, I take the Patton approach. Exterminate everything. Leave nothing alive. This is the only way to be feared in war, loved in peace, and respected in competition.

If you feel offended, look at yourself. You claim those photos of the dead are merely diseased people, failing to notice that had they Germans not have moved them to begin with, they would never have been in that position.

If I was a general in WW2, I would honestly have waited until we had nukes, and then begin an absolute genocide of the German race, ending when they surrendered. I have mercy always in war, but no compassion.

edit on 28-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: le spelling

America was not defending the homeland when it came to world war 2. They failed to defend the homeland when pearl harbor was bombed, which gave them an excuse to go in other homelands and wage war.

I never said it was a good thing that Germans had prisoner camps, just as it is also not a good thing for America to have Japanese prison camps, just as it is also not a good thing to have FEMA camps if they exist now.

You are perhaps not realizing that you are becoming what you most hate. You are angry that the Germans tried to exterminate the Jews, yet you said you would "have waited until we had nukes, and then begin an absolute genocide of the German race."

Are you fully aware of what you are saying? To stop the German genocide, we must have a genocide of the Germans? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

reply to post by filosophia


Yes I am aware. I believe Hitler himself, or perhaps someone else said it, "the only way to beat me, is to become me".

The only victors in war are those that allow evil to fully consume them, destroy their enemy, and then also manage to fully destroy the evil they themselves have become within. Such things are not hard, and back when I was in High school, in order to beat 3 bullies, I would organize 5 and give absolute hell. hell beyond words, until they surrender, and knew well enough to not do it again. Peace comes with soft words and a big stick.

Furthermore, that's what you do when someone comes to your house, burns down your things, and messes up your stuff. You do tenfold worse to them until they get the point and run away. This is evil, and this is not Christian. And that's why such anger is to be restrained until someone physically harms you. I will give my enemy my own bed in peace. But should they try to kill me at night, I will do far worse to them. That also is not very Christian, and I am not endorsing it. But it is what I would do should the person persist in their aggression.

reply to post by audiopackrat


So was practically every other nation that the English and French and Belgium had control over. Are you ignoring the cries of freedom of a billion people for the sake of your hatred of a few million?

Then you use words like Zionist to try and hide your hatred of Judaism, failing to recognize that the religion itself clearly states that the Holy Land is theirs. There is no such thing as a nonzionist Jews. There are Jews who know their religion, and Jews who do not.

The fact they got their wish after the war does not make the holocaust a lie. However, the fact you are ignoring the liberation of a whole continent and a half along with Israel, gives serious consideration that you are lying.

I don't see the point in argueing over the insanity that was going on during the NAzi movement and World War 2.Probably will happen again eventually anyways.