For Christ's sake, stop blaming Obama for everything under the sun!

Hello. I rarely post on this site anymore, because it seems to have mostly descended into nothing but partisan bickering and people who haven't the slightest clue what they're talking about throwing around facts and theories they don't understand. However, I still lurk, following the handful of members who actually make a meaningful contribution around here. No offense to you all, but before the giant membership boom, this site was a much more organized, friendly place to discuss a wide variety of topics. But no matter. I digress.

One thing I can no longer stand is the amount of Obama bashing that goes on here, and everywhere else for that matter. I am by no means some huge fan of Obama. "Yes we can!" is not my mantra. I am, in fact, a huge Ron Paul supporter (as I'm sure a ton of you are.) I'm just entirely sick of this one man being blamed for the sordid state of our nation.

I've read more smear posts and threads regarding Obama's "out-of-control spending" than I can shake a stick at. Every time, I laugh to myself, because anyone who understands a shred of political theory understands two very, very basic things -

1. It's not just the President - it's his cabinet, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the Fed, and all other government (and, these days, some non-government) entities as well.

2. Want to see the effects of a bill, law or economic action? Wait at least four years for the full trickle-down to run its course.

Want someone to blame? How about this one guy (I don't know if anyone remembers him... ya'll don't seem to, at least) named GEORGE W. BUSH? Between him, his cabinet, and Congress over the past ten years - there's your responsible parties. Let me illustrate this with a simple graphic - one I think has been shown around here a few times before -



Before anyone says 'well of course it's lower, Obama's been in office for only three years! If you follow that out... blah blah blah', note that this is a LIBERAL projection of his spending habits OVER A HYPOTHETICAL EIGHT-YEAR TERM. Also, you can't place any of the war monies on Obama's head, no matter how hard you try - he didn't start them, and he can't very well just suddenly drop two military engagements, can he? Bush started it, Bush's cabinet and Congress created the tax loopholes to cause the lending crises, Bush's cronies were the ones profiting from 9/11. When Clinton left office in '00, our economy was in fantastic shape - see below.



This amazing economic standing carried over well into Bush's second term, which is when things really started to fall hard. That's why we were able to start not one, but two wars as quickly and efficiently as we did - at the time, we didn't even have a national debt. It is Bush's decisions and his cabinet's influence we are now seeing. If the corporate tax loopholes hadn't been created in the first place, we wouldn't have had the bailouts. If responsible lending laws had been enforced, we wouldn't have had the sub-prime mortgage crisis, and therefore the absurd amount of home foreclosures we see now.

And Obamacare really shouldn't even be called so - sure, it was his idea initially. Then Congress spent upwards of a year ******* it into oblivion, and out the other end came 2400 pages of unreadable, unenforceable silliness. Anyone who reams Obamacare clearly didn't do a lot of research. Indeed, it does 'require' you (though not through threat of legal action) to have coverage. It also (tries, not at all saying it's perfect or even halfway decent) to make this coverage infinitely more affordable and fair to those who don't already have it. And while this may seem like socialism, let's consider - public education? SOCIALISM. right to vote? SOCIALISM. women's suffrage? SOCIALISM. public roads? SOCIALISM. public transportation? SOCIALISM. police? SOCIALISM (but screw them anyways). All of these things would be considered socialist by very definition, and I don't see many threads decrying the fascist horrors of your local bus stop (the police are a different story, but no matter). And last I checked, when you step out your door without heath insurance, have fun being $400,000 in debt for the rest of your life because that drunk driver destroyed both of your legs.

No, Obama isn't great. I don't plan on voting for him, as long as RP gets the GOP ticket. But Jon Stewart said it best: "Obama's slogan has been updated from 'Yes we can!' to 'I thought we could, but everyone else is an a*****e!" I feel everyone is forgetting that the prez, as one man, has very limited capabilities. So next time you want to decry someone for ruining our nation, remember - just because we have a leader, doesn't mean he actually leads. Just look at the recent mess over the debt ceiling - Obama put forward a PERFECTLY REASONABLE solution, raise the debt ceiling accompanied by just over $2 trillion in spending cuts (and oh yeah, just a FEW select tax increases, here and there, to help grease the wheels...). But NOPE. Congressional Republicans swore to NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER raise taxes EVER. So we came 48 hours away from destroying the world economy - for what? Petty rivalry? This was actually the main reason S&P downgraded our credit rating - not because we almost defaulted, but because the threat of default was tossed around as a political bargaining chip. Any rational person looking at that should be far more afraid of 535 slimy, corrupt bastards than one measly President, even if he isn't the best we've had. Again, I am not some blind Obama-loving Democrat seduced by the 'hope-and-change' rhetoric. He's certainly dodged questions, evaded answers, and generally been a politician. But (besides RP) who hasn't?

Now, I'm not like most self-professed politicos on here - my mind can be changed. And if any of my points here are incorrect, please - POLITELY - correct me, with sources. I have read considerable amounts on these topics, and this is my best understanding of the situation. If you can somehow prove to me - with irrefutable sources and math - that Obama has single-handedly done anything to cause the current situation, please do. I have plenty of evidence supporting my beliefs stated here. However, please don't just accuse me of being stupid and/or wrong with no basis, as I will not respond. I am intending this to let out my personal opinion, as well as hopefully spark some constructive conversation as to what Obama, Bush and Congress may or may not have done since the year 2000 to get us to the point we're at now. Ultimately, I truly hope it comes down to Ron Paul vs Obama in 2012 - to me, that's a 'fantastic' vs 'at least decent', which is better than anything we've seen in a long, long time.

Thoughts?

You might not have the right to blame him for what he inherited


but you can blame him for playing into the same cards and making the siutation worse


he has the spotlight on him to make a differnce

but he goes the opposite way


he is as guility as if he caused what he inherited

For Christ's sake, stop blaming Obama for everything under the sun!

No.

Fair enough point. But how do you think he played into it? From my perspective, he's just been trying to do what he thinks is right and best for the country. At least he's been kind of trying to get corporate taxes raised, fewer causeless tax breaks, etc., but he encounters so much resistance from the GOP House that he simply can't. Examples?

Wow, when I saw your headline I actually thought for a minute there I had authored my first thread. I'm actually one of the few Obama supporters on here (I think). and believe it or not I have a pretty good habit of saying / typing "for Christ's sake". anyway ........... I agree with your sentiments and I'm glad I got to post before all the bashers come out of the woodwork. that rabbit with the teary eye will be along soon enough I imagine. anyway, thanks for the smile........ maybe I'll wait and author my first thread when Obama wins re-election.

we keep saying, a few of us on here.

it doesnt matter what face it has, the puppet only plays the games his master wants

I can relate to your issue with the current trend of bickering on here. I can also agree up to a point on some of which you said. You are right in that Obama [I hate to say this] is not totally to blame.
Take the budget fiasco We can blame the last sessions of congress. When was the last time a budget was passed? [ I live in NY and I've seen the first on time state budget in YEARS] That ball was dropped back when Nancy Pelosi was majority leader. Since the "obamacare" was passed in the period of time that I mentioned I will not accept the "republican filibuster" argument. A budget would be way easier to negotiate than a health care bill. I also think that your assertion that we only need to go back four years is wrong, we may need to back further. A lot of affects are delayed for years after the implementation. Elected officials come and go but some appointees linger on for decades! Obama may not be deserving of all the blame but he does deserve some of it.
I must thank you though for a good old school ATS discussion and hope this thread doesn't garner the usual bickering from political threads!!

Why?,
he blames everyone else for his mistakes.

The blaming of Obama is impossible to take seriously from anyone who supported Bush.

I too am a huge fan of Ron Paul's and would strongly consider voting for him if given the chance.

Oh, brother, really? He might think he's doing the best for the country but maybe he's not.

The man can get a once in a lifetime healthcare package passed in which most would rather opt out, but the man cannot due one iota for the betterment of this economy
And you are defending this
Simply amazing

Owe and the current Potus is not to blame either, yes, the Congress could be put in that same lump of sh## as our current President

reply to post by alexbassguy


REALLY? Stop expecting the most responsibility from the man with the most power, and indeed, the most accountability, in the world?
I'm sorry, but when you have the most important job on the planet, and you do the worst job in history (I'd say he's surpassed even Wubya now) you deserve nothing but ridicule and scorn in the very least. I'd say he needs to be tried for treason just like his predecessor.

He deserve's it. All he ever says is "This isn't my fault blah blah blah...." He has no stones or character. He is not a leader or a man of action.

reply to post by alexbassguy


S&F, I agree with you wholeheartedly except for the fact that I don't believe that Ron Paul can secure the GOP nomination and I probably wouldn't vote for him anyway.

As much as I agree with many of his viewpoints, I just can't bring myself to vote for someone who admittedly, would not have voted in favor of the Civil Rights Act and who believes that private businesses should be allowed to discriminate. I also heard him say that he believes that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are all unconstitutional and I can't go there either. Some of his views are just a little too extreme for me.

So I'll probably vote to re-elect Obama and to un-elect some of the obstructionist nut jobs in congress.

Anyway, good luck getting them to stop blaming Obama for all their ills. You do know that "Blaming" is their speciality don't you? I heard a comedian the other day who suggested that they adopt a new campaign slogan of; "Yes We Hate."

"For Christ's sake, stop blaming Obama for everything under the sun!"

Yeah, I am going to have to go with a big fat NO on this one.

Let's say that you are a manager at KFC. Let's say that many of your employees are under-trained and they screw up orders, fail heath inspections, misplace money and so on and so on......all of this comes together and results in one horrible place to eat. The franchise owners take notice, and do you know who they go to? They go to the manager, the person they trusted enough to hire to take care of their business.

The business relationship between the franchise owners and the managers is quite similar to the relationship between the citizens and the president. The president works for US, NOT the other way around. When things go wrong, we look at him. He took on the job as a LEADER, the person who is solely responsible for the continuation and progression of domestic policies that are designed to make the people happy. That is his job.

So when these things do not get done, we want ONE person to turn to, not a whole mess of agencies, departments, special interest groups, etc.

Yeah, I pretty much ran out of gas there. I hope you got my point.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


I got say the POTUS is not all powerful If we want to look at this on a larger scale, we could actually say this is the fault of the two party system. Negotiations have not been a hallmark of the past few years! "Yes we will jam healthcare down everybodies throats, but you gotta compromise with us when we can't get what we want"!

I agree with almost every single point you brought forward..

Dupery, the american way of doing politics.

Whoa, whoa, folks. I never said he's doing the best job for our country, nor did I say he's not to blame for certain things. If you think he's doing the worst job in history, even (and I don't see how anyone can reasonably think this) GWB... WHY??? Examples, people! Specific bills, issues, laws, vetoes, quotes, anything. Just 'he's terrible' don't cut it, sorry. I appreciate all of your opinions, but some factuals would be nice. Need I remind anyone, before we say he's doing worse than Bush, that Bush successfully got the dollar value of a HUMAN LIFE lowered by over a million dollars, so insurance companies could spread their backing funds more effectively? You really think that a healthcare bill is worse than THAT!?

And to Obama supporters on here, good on ya, stand up for your opinion! I don't necessarily agree with you, but hooah for sticking to your guns.

Is this a joke?
They all screwed up...how is that so hard to understand? I mean crap I blame them all and the people of this nation. But you!
You are a straight out of the text democrat supporter. Why try and hide it with a bogus thread?
You voted for Obama and are now upset that his numbers are falling.
Then presented us with bogus information...
Then with a cherry on top...have tried to take my RIGHTS of freedom of speech...

WHY????
Do you not understand that majority of this nation have defaulted on their loans. Which in turn caused the last 6 presidents maybe more to PRINT more money. You can't place the blame on just one but you can place the blame on all of them for not doing anything right. Naming Obama to be the king because now he isn't going to be known as the first "black" president but the first president to get us downgraded. He screwed up...he promised so much but delivered very little and screwed up a lot more than what he did. We ALL knew about that one day the economy would take a fall and what was congress and OBAMA doing? Trying to pass the crappiest healthcare bill...going on vacations...trying to get reelected...doing really nothing.

Do you realize that the president is supposed to be for the PEOPLE???????
The first thing the president should be doing is NOT taking vacations...why? Because they're people who haven't takin' vacations in 10+ years. He should be 100% trying to increase the jobs and save the economy so these people CAN go on vacations but we get this 3 1/2 years later. Its too late!!!!! Its going to all be about he next term and how he can get elected. Bull#!!!! I work from the start of the shift to the end of the shift. The president should be working on this nation from the start of his presidency to the end of his presidency. Convince the people that the government isn't trying to rape us and trying to save us. Thats how you get elected for a 2nd term...maybe even a 3rd term. Just for #s and giggles.

People wake up and realize until we get a president that can deliver what I just stated...they are all to BLAME!

I'm convinced president are put in place to be the scapegoat. Obama knew all along that he was going to take blows form the public.

It doesn't matter who sit in the presidents chair. The results are not only the same, but are essentially helping along the real agenda at hand here...we all know what I'm talking about