Sovereign Citizenship... I am a sovereign Citizen... are you?

Originally posted by ELahrairah
I have heard about the sovereign movement but I considered it a myth.
You are telling me that you can get away with all those things without any repercussions
it sounds nice but I always found it a little hard to believe and if it is possible
you practically have to go to law school to understand how to free yourself.

The Sovereign movement is no myth, friend. Although TPTB would very much like you to think it is. I myself am a Sovereign Citizen. I have filed a Notice of Rights and Understanding with the County Sheriff's Office, and informed, in no uncertain terms the local cops that:
Their boss is the Chief of Police, a hired person, not an elected official, and his boss is the Mayor, and his boss is the City, which is a Corporation, so the local cops are nothing but Corporate Enforcers, and that I would not follow their rules, or their orders, and would be happy to sue if one hassled me in any way whatsoever.

I have signed my driver's license and registration with "su juris," and "UCC-207," and "signed under duress."

I have marked my van with a sigh that reads: "Not for Hire," which makes it a non "Motor Vehicle," and does make it a "Private Conveyance."

I never pay traffic tickets, I challenge the following:
The American Military Flag with it's gold fringe.
The "Criminal Courts Judge's" jurisdiction in a traffic court
The fact that I am unable to question my accuser, a machine,
and the fact that the radar device was not installed by a "Factory Tech" as prescribed by the manufacturer, nor that is was properly calibrated every 30 days, again as prescribed by the manufacturer.

Even if I lose, and I have, I have a history of mental illness, and insist that I be taken before a Judge for a 30 day commitment. The last time I did this, it cost the County over $15,000.

When stopped by a Trooper, I step out of the vehicle, hands in sight, and inform him/her I am a Sovereign Citizen, and a Freeman on the Land. 9 times out of 10 the cop wishes me a good day and that is it. I never consent to a search of myself, or my vehicle without a warrant.
Once they figure out that you know the law better than they do, and are willing to fight them and never pay a cent...they tend to leave you be. I speak from experience.

reply to post by autowrench


I'm certainly glad to see that you're getting the mental health care you clearly need. I hope the treatment is successful and that someday you will be able to rejoin society. Until then, keep thinking pretty thoughts.

I'm less glad that the county is providing your care. You take the principled stand of refusing to be bound by their laws and then, when you have lost your rather bizarre legal case, you turn around and say "Oh, Oh, you have to take care of me for thirty days, your law (which I reject) says you have to." You then take thousands of dollars from your neighbors in order to play your silly game.

I don't know what the Terms and Conditions say in this situation (by the way, do you submit to those?), but I will say that I find the behavior described in your post to be contemptible and it should earn scorn from any decent human. (But I know you must be just posting hypotheticals, so I'm only responding to the behavior, not necessarily you.

A "United States Citizen" can take steps to claim "Sovereignty". You have to file an "Act of State" with the "Secretary of State's Office".

Once you are an "American Citizen", you can even take steps to become a "Private Bank" with the ability to issue a “Bonded Promissory Note” to any Principles to pay "debts", without repayment.

Once you become an issuing and paying "Agent" you can write “Bonded Promissory Notes” to pay “debts”.


ETA: As an "American Citizen", you may also own your Corporate name, example, JOHN DOE, SSN#123456789 and "Copyright" it.

reply to post by charles1952


There is no real legal form of law. All of it means you stand under someone. Even common law can be taken too far. But its the best we have, because if you harm someone, society is going to stop you, so freedom never equates complete lack of responsibility. They do go hand in hand. I just didn't want to go into it too much as it would have been another post, but not every thing they determine is law under common law is necessarily legal either, and its a good thing to really question all authorative laws and then stand up for what's right. Ie. one could argue make an argument for drug laws based on protection of people from toxins. When no on really has that big brother right to stop anyone from accessing land, resources or the seeds of the earth. Its like saying, you can't look at the data and decide for yourself out of contradictory studies, which ones are accurate, or, for example. If they decided vitamin C is a drug, and tried to prohibit it, they could claim to do so under common law, as it could be determined by them to be harmful.

Common law is basically about harming another, and so we have to be a little careful about, not giving our power away no matter what, in that not everything that seems to be a law to protect people is good, though some of it is definitely good.

Laws implimented and signed to me, are basically crimes against humanity, with signature admissions like the nurmemberg trials in many cases.

So, they had better be reasonable, fair, non punitive, helpful and light on the control. In other words, not dictated to us, but something we agree with. ie. rape/murder.

What do you do in a case where you feel 100% that the law is a crime and most are obeying it? ie. the airport scans could be taken to an extreme of protection.

Basically, people need discernment and sometimes groups can buy into things that are fine if they want that, but they have no right to force it on others, period. They have the right to live in safety without others harming them, or robbing, raping, etc. But other things they have no right to stop people from choosing to do. For example, they may not wish someone to drive drunk and harm them, but they have no right to prohibit people's freedom to drink. The same is true with many things.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Common law is basically about harming another, and so we have to be a little careful about, not giving our power away no matter what, in that not everything that seems to be a law to protect people is good, though some of it is definitely good.

Again, I see this mentioned in these types of threads often, but it is totally at odds with what Common law is.

It seems some believe Common Law to only deal with offences against another person and use it as a defence for traffic violations or tax charges (the ones most often trotted out as examples of this "working") because as there is no person "harmed", there cannot be a crime.

This is false. Common law is merely case law, as set by precedent and court decisions. It doesn't deal with or even care if there is a person "harmed".

Also, your whole "roman law" thing makes no sense. You will find most countries in the world use Civil Law, which is in part based on the principles of Roman law, in so far as the Law is a codified "document" as opposed to be decided by Judges a dn precedent in a Common Law system.

That said, you will never find a system which is totlally "Common Law" either.

In the UK, Parliament sets out the legislation which can be seen as a civil law/legislative system, which is then defined in practice by a Common law system where Judges interpret the Law as set out by the legislators, therefore setting precedent.

www.adl.org...
Idiot Legal Arguments: A Casebook for Dealing with Extremist Legal Arguments
cases covering sovereign citizens, gold fringe on the flag, taxes and other crackpot arguments

reply to post by Pauligirl


Haha, quality.

Now, that is Common Law. Cases decided by Judges within the Laws of the Land, setting precedent.

Got to love the irony of this whole thing being blown out of the water by actual Common law in action, not some silly notion that Common Law is some law of a bygone age of freedom.

I just can't believe how everyone here is against this. Kid, don't worry. Forgive them not, for they know what they do. Or something.

I am just a crazy person. Of course, I am out of the country now, and therefore immune. I am American, I am 46 years old, and I have NEVER paid taxes. Ok, well, once I had a desk job with all the withholding and FICA and all that bs. But I never filed a tax RETURN. Why did I need to return anything to them who were stealing it from me? I somehow understood this as a teenager, with the first jobs I had in high school, as a waiter or whatever. I NEVER paid taxes. Back then, you didn't have to declare your tips. In fact, I remember when they started pushing that bs, back in the eighties.

You all are completely indoctrinated, and don't even understand why you are whaling on this kid. The kid is RIGHT. You are all WRONG. There is no reason to submit to this illegal govt and all that it entails. You don't realize you are operating under Maritime Law.

Oh, wait, I forgot to mention that I am licensed Merchant Marine officer, and have been since I was 19. Whoops. So I have always been under Maritime Law, and knew it. Therefore I studied up on it a bit. You are ALL operating under Maritime Law, or the UCC as it is now known. All you have to do is beat them at their own game.

Now I didn't realize this right away, yet I always somehow knew that I shouldn't pay taxes. It just seemed like a huge ripoff. I didn't approve of ANY of the bs they were spending the money on, so WTF should I have to pay it? I was told in my younger years many times, even by my peers, that I would somehow get in big trouble if I didn't file these tax returns. However, I never did, and nothing ever happened.

Now, there are certain bizarre laws on the books, because back in the day, the seamen were getting screwed real bad. These laws are still on the books. In fact, if I had a vengeful wife wanting to take me for everything in a divorce, she would get NOTHING. It's impossible, due to certain loopholes in the Maritime Law regarding seamen. Yes, that's right, I am a seaman. Yes, I said seaman, heh heh. But that's neither here nor there.

I used to run boats from Miami. Thinking back on it now, this one guy I worked for knew all of this stuff for sure back then. We were running one or two week charters to the Bahamas. The "owner" made me have everyone sign some bizarre paperwork. I thought nothing of it at the time, my top priority was to get laid by the passengers, so making them sign weird waivers was part of it, right?

He was not the owner. The actual owner on paper was some female in Arkansas or somewhere that I never met, in the three years I worked for "her". Well, cause I didn't work for her. Or for anyone, on paper.

This guy obviously knew all this stuff, back in the eighties, when I was merely a callow youth, full of myself and thinking I knew everything, much like all of you are here. The 'maritime law' rule state that the "owner or owner's agent" can not be on board. Aaah, it's complicated to explain to morons how it worked. Suffice to say that there were NO TAXES being paid in any way, and this was a long time ago, and there was NO HEAT coming down. And this guy had NO "family connections" in any way, just BRAIN power. In fact, this guy one time got WASHINGTON DC HEAT to come down on MIAMI USCG to leave us alone, when they were trying to give us a hard time. Bear in mind, Miami is probably the busiest port in terms of drug smuggling, and drug busts for that matter. It's probably the biggest USCG station in the country. And he got heat from DC coming down on them, Think about it. While paying NO TAXES.

Anyway, dont give this kid such a hard time. In fact, I want to hear how you did it, dude. I'm with you, though no one else is, apparently. Thought this was ATS.......

Originally posted by CaptChaos

Oh, wait, I forgot to mention that I am licensed Merchant Marine officer, and have been since I was 19. Whoops. So I have always been under Maritime Law, and knew it. Therefore I studied up on it a bit. You are ALL operating under Maritime Law, or the UCC as it is now known. All you have to do is beat them at their own game.

Maritime Law and the Uniform Commercial Code are two different things.
The Uniform Commercial Code has to do with commercial transactions
www.law.cornell.edu...-103

lawbrain.com...

Admiralty and Maritime Law

A field of law relating to, and arising from, the practice of the admiralty courts (tribunals that exercise jurisdiction over all contracts, torts, offenses, or injuries within maritime law) that regulates and settles special problems associated with sea navigation and commerce.

They may overlap on the shipping/commerce end.

reply to post by reptiliannogmar

Please, need more info. Where can I find out more about this ?
Thanks,

I'm willing to stick it out if others are, but is this thread still worthwhile? Case cites, conviction histories, and simple logic can all be presented, but if the response is "None of that matters, I heard that someone got away with it once. I'd like my chance to defraud the system." then what's the sense of going on?

60 Minutes' exposes the 'sovereign citizens' as the nation's most serious domestic-terrorism threat

60 Minutes' Byron Pitt had a superb segment last night on the sovereign citizens movement, springboarding from the tragic case of Jerry and Joe Kane, two sovereign citizens who mowed down a couple of West Memphis, Arkansas, police officers before themselves being killed.

The incident was yet another reminder that one of the most significant ongoing threats to law enforcement officers in this country comes from right-wing extremists of the Patriot/"sovereign citizen" variety -- people who take Republicans' government-bashing rhetoric to its illogical extreme and declare themselves free of federal laws and functionally laws unto themselves.

An excellent video...
crooksandliars.com...

Roots in Nazism and Montana Freemen.
Average sovereign citizen today is 30 -35 and in economic dire straits.
Probably lost their job, probably lost the wife.
Paranoid? Many are.
Conspiracy theorists? Most are.

Terry Nichols (Oklahoma City Bomber) and
Wesley Snipes

reply to post by CaptChaos


Aren't all the people fall under the maritime law once they receive their birth certificate with the stock number on it once they are born?

reply to post by CaptChaos


is this truth?
www.youtube.com...

yes it is. But for the first few minutes of you life you are a sovereign citizen until that birth certificate is signed by the doctor

reply to post by CaptChaos


Are the steps the op posted the correct procedure to go about doing this?

Damn... does that mean they can throw this guy in Gitmo ?

Originally posted by reptiliannogmar

You decide. I no longer live by public local state or government laws. But English Common Law.

English common law practiced in America is still decided in an American court of law. You lose, genius.

The American way is believing in The Constitution

You obviously have zero clue what the Constitution is or does since below you proudly proclaim:

I protect myself from The bankers stealing my money.

It means although I still pay, that I dont have to pay my mortgage and no body can do # about it.

A mortgage is a contract. The Constitution protects the right of contract, on both sides. If you decide not to pay your mortgage, then someone most certainly will do something about it. Much to your dismay.

It means I dont have to pay traffic tickets or be documented as a cocky mamy bull# licensed driver.

It means that you cant sue me, the government cant sue me.

This is beyond laughable, into the realm of pathetic. If you do someone harm via disobeying traffic laws, or by disobeying any other laws, they most certainly can, and will, successfully sue you for damages.

It means that THE BANKERS AND TPTB HAVE PAYED OFF MY DEBTS by means of debt bonds.

It means that I can walk into any bank I want and ask for these bonds and refusal means that that bank would have do deal with stacks of paperwork and the American court system.

See re: contracts above.

It means that no one man or court can decide my fate.

Then why bother your family that's chock full of lawyers?

It means that I can smoke my mary jane and big brother cant do # about it.

It means that I can grow my mary jane and big brother cant do # about it.

While I agree that you should be able to, currently you are not, and they most certainly can, and will, do something about it.

It means that I truly I have my civil liberties I have my civil rights given to me by my birth as a human not as an American.

IT MEANS THAT I AM A REAL AMERICAN AND HAVE THE RIGHTS OF LIFE AND LIBERTY FREEDOM HAPPINESS AND THE TRUE AMERICAN WAY AS IT IS DESCRIBED IN THE CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN AMENDMENT RIGHTS THAT WERE GIVEN TO ME AS A BIRTH RIGHT. Even if I am no longer an American citizen I am more free than probably everyone on this damn site.

iT MEANS THAT YOU DONT AND THAT YOU ARE NO AMERICAN CITIZEN BUT RATHER AND AMERICAN CAPTIVE.

Living in this country means living responsibly within the rules set forth by the supreme law of the land, which you have no clue how to do. Citizens have just as much responsibility as the government to live within the law. Just because the government can't do it, doesn't mean you get to shirk your responsibilities as a citizen.

Nuff said... DONE.

Promise?

/TOA