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Ron Paul Wins The ATS Straw Poll!
page: 17share:
Hey.. what happened to the thread that explained that anyone voting in a state with closed primaries needed to change their registration to GOP to
vote for Ron Paul in the primaries? Both my girlfriend and I filled out the papers and sent them in today to change to registered Republicans so we
can vote for him in the primaries. There was a very important thread on it and now its gone?
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
Wow, you're right...it disappeared. Must be some sort of T&C violation, but it's odd that it was front page for a while before it was removed...
Wow, you're right...it disappeared. Must be some sort of T&C violation, but it's odd that it was front page for a while before it was removed...
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
I was wondering the same thing...It also appears the OP was banned.
I was wondering the same thing...It also appears the OP was banned.
edit on 19-8-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)
There were 17,783 votes, but 12,865 were from non-members. That means less than 5,000 votes were from ATS members themselves. Yet there are over
100,000 active ATS members. The site has gained almost 40,000 new members in the last year and over 3,000 in the last thirty days.
So what happened? What always happens with a Ron Paul poll. A few Ron Paul supporters spread the word and Ron Paul supporters from throughout the Internet hopped on over here to vote in the poll. 72% of the voters weren't even ATS members! So what does that poll tell you? Nothing. Less than 5% of the active ATS members even bothered to vote.
The poll, and others like them, are totally bogus.
If you actually believe this poll is representative of the actual support Ron Paul has in the general population, you're delusional. That's not so bad unless you are baseing your actions on this false data. Put yourself in the campaign. If Ron Paul really had 83% support you would run the campaign much differently than if he had about 9% support, wouldn't you? Those two polling numbers represent two competely different sets of problems and advantages.
Now if Ron Paul loses, again, your cognitive dissonance kicks in, and you will surely blame the MSM, TPTB, the Illuminanti, NWO, and the Masons for thwarting your dreams.
On the other hand, perhaps Ron Paul will lose, again, because his fans haven't a clue about his actual base of support.
So what happened? What always happens with a Ron Paul poll. A few Ron Paul supporters spread the word and Ron Paul supporters from throughout the Internet hopped on over here to vote in the poll. 72% of the voters weren't even ATS members! So what does that poll tell you? Nothing. Less than 5% of the active ATS members even bothered to vote.
The poll, and others like them, are totally bogus.
If you actually believe this poll is representative of the actual support Ron Paul has in the general population, you're delusional. That's not so bad unless you are baseing your actions on this false data. Put yourself in the campaign. If Ron Paul really had 83% support you would run the campaign much differently than if he had about 9% support, wouldn't you? Those two polling numbers represent two competely different sets of problems and advantages.
Now if Ron Paul loses, again, your cognitive dissonance kicks in, and you will surely blame the MSM, TPTB, the Illuminanti, NWO, and the Masons for thwarting your dreams.
On the other hand, perhaps Ron Paul will lose, again, because his fans haven't a clue about his actual base of support.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
reply to post by schuyler
An interesting analysis, but draws some conclusions based upon data that is either irrelevant, or involves false conclusions, I think
We have no way of knowing how many votes were from non-members. We only know how many members were logged in when they responded to the poll.
Since members on line vs lurkers numbers can swing wildly, I'm going to blur the edges a bit but keep it within the realm of conceivably accurate.
At any given time, the members on line are about 10% - 14% of the total viewing. Based upon that, it isn't unusual at all for there to be twice as many non-logged in vs logged in actual participants in a poll.
Either way, if we have a poll that anyone can participate in, it would surprise me more if the logged in participants weren't dwarfed by total responses of those not logged in, without a need for supporters swarming in from hither and yon specifically to respond to skew the results.
I think the data is totally accurate. What's inaccurate are the conclusions one attempts to derive from it.
What we know is, people who come to ATS and choose to respond to a poll, by and large support Ron Paul for president. Take it past that, and it's pure speculation. And anyone reading the forums can't be surprised at the results. If it had been anyone other than Paul, I'd have been shocked enough to want to dig to see how that could've happened. It would almost have to involve outside chicanery, in my opinion.
It's sort of a fun thing, more than anything else. It's something members have been asking for. Everyone's conclusions about the results are their own. Officially, the site posts the results but has no commentary about what they mean.
Personally, I think it's interesting to see results based upon what others frequenting the site think, but in a Big Picture way, I agree it's fairly irrelevant. Sort of like a poll on the streets of Green Bay, Wisconsin, asking who's going to the Super Bowl.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by schuyler
Of note, I wasn't a Ron Paul supporter in the last election. I voted for Obama, I wanted change. It's become more clear than ever since then that both Establishment parties do not represent the people, and there was no change. Ron Paul's base is growing, and everybody I educate on his true positions, becomes a supporter. And the MSM is the reason many see him as unelectable, because they're owned by the same people that own the Establishment politicians. To deny that, is nothing more than lying. They do not want their gravy train to come to a halt. They do not care about the people, in any way. They don't care if we all lose everything, because they've transferred all of our money to their accounts, once we're sucked dry they'll move onto another host.
Ron Paul's support base is growing. Go over to his many facebook pages, see the diversity of his supporters. Funny now how the mainstream media is starting to attack social media, huh? Blaming it for flash mobs, and criminal activity, among other things. They see they don't completely control the message anymore, and that's why Ron Paul's base is growing. Social media.
Of note, I wasn't a Ron Paul supporter in the last election. I voted for Obama, I wanted change. It's become more clear than ever since then that both Establishment parties do not represent the people, and there was no change. Ron Paul's base is growing, and everybody I educate on his true positions, becomes a supporter. And the MSM is the reason many see him as unelectable, because they're owned by the same people that own the Establishment politicians. To deny that, is nothing more than lying. They do not want their gravy train to come to a halt. They do not care about the people, in any way. They don't care if we all lose everything, because they've transferred all of our money to their accounts, once we're sucked dry they'll move onto another host.
Ron Paul's support base is growing. Go over to his many facebook pages, see the diversity of his supporters. Funny now how the mainstream media is starting to attack social media, huh? Blaming it for flash mobs, and criminal activity, among other things. They see they don't completely control the message anymore, and that's why Ron Paul's base is growing. Social media.
Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by schuyler
Ron Paul's support base is growing. Go over to his many facebook pages, see the diversity of his supporters. Funny now how the mainstream media is starting to attack social media, huh? Blaming it for flash mobs, and criminal activity, among other things. They see they don't completely control the message anymore, and that's why Ron Paul's base is growing. Social media.
I hope you are right and I absolutely agree that the social media issue is what will change things. The problem is that if people believe these polls as gospel, they are going to make wrong decisions. If Paul's support was really 83%, as this poll suggests, the campaign would be run much differently than if it were 9%, which is where he is really at.
I think all campaigns do this, but Paul's does it especially, and that is the supporters look inward at themselves and see their wishes fulfilled in others saying the same thing. It gives a false sense of perspective. I was involved in a blogger group last campaign for McCain. Our blog roll grew exponentially during the course of the campaign. Many thousands, if not millions of words were written. In the final analysis I suspect the entire effort did not add a single vote for McCain. Not one. In other words, it was a wasted effort.
I am quite convinced that this poll was spammed by outsiders. You tell me to be careful of statistics. Well, I will say the same thing. The number of "lurkers" here is misstated and nowhere near the number enumerated. This site is run on Linux. I've seen this elsewhere. Linux gives you a false sense of connections. Many lurkers are 'zombies' and not really there at all. In any case, when people get all excites about numbers like this I worry that the elation is misplaced and the resulting energy misused. these polls are so bad that others running them, like The Right Stuff or The Other McCain, regularly drop Ron Paul from them precisely because the spamming skews the results so badly.
I wish I could treat these polls as just some lighthearted fun, but I've come to believe they are destructive to the cause of Ron Paul himself.
reply to post by schuyler
Well then the solution:
Redo the poll and only allow logged in members to vote.
Hope they do, cause then the results will be 90%
But really they should make it so the number of polls is known in advance. REP, DEM, and IND. Then tell all members they have only one poll, and one candidate they can vote on. No lurkers, members only, and only one candidate.
That would be a bit more realistic imo. Also, the coding criteria should be by screename/member account- so that dynamic IP's and multiple votes aren't an issue. 1 screename, 1 vote, 1 poll.
Well then the solution:
Redo the poll and only allow logged in members to vote.
Hope they do, cause then the results will be 90%
But really they should make it so the number of polls is known in advance. REP, DEM, and IND. Then tell all members they have only one poll, and one candidate they can vote on. No lurkers, members only, and only one candidate.
That would be a bit more realistic imo. Also, the coding criteria should be by screename/member account- so that dynamic IP's and multiple votes aren't an issue. 1 screename, 1 vote, 1 poll.
edit on Fri Aug 19th 2011 by TrueAmerican because: (no reason given)
reply to post by schuyler
Well, in all honesty the ATS poll hasn't affected my enthusiasm one way or the other. I don't put much in the online poll basket...it's the social media sites and such that have me optimistic. Given the current situation in this country, and the peoples' overall disgust with the Establishment, conditions are much better for RP this time around than last time. And every time a smug yellow journalist decides to tell us who we're gonna elect, it just pushes us harder to spread the word, and actually get out and vote. As Palin supporters were quick to point out, the media said Reagan was unelectable too.
Well, in all honesty the ATS poll hasn't affected my enthusiasm one way or the other. I don't put much in the online poll basket...it's the social media sites and such that have me optimistic. Given the current situation in this country, and the peoples' overall disgust with the Establishment, conditions are much better for RP this time around than last time. And every time a smug yellow journalist decides to tell us who we're gonna elect, it just pushes us harder to spread the word, and actually get out and vote. As Palin supporters were quick to point out, the media said Reagan was unelectable too.
reply to post by schuyler
Actually the numbers of voters in the recent few ATS polls have also had majority of voters who were NON ATS members.
When trying to make a point like the one you made, you can't pick one poll and ignore the others.
I'm a pretty big Ron Paul supporter but I've never said he had a HUGE following, and I do believe most people here have been saying that he has a GROWING base (which is true, his support has at least quadrupled since the 08 campaign). Please don't confuse a growing and a already large support base.
You really give little credit to Ron Paul's grassroots supporters though, he has the most hardcore volunteers and the most organized grassroots of the GOP candidates.
In my opinion, if you want actual change, Ron Paul is probably the last person that can offer this. Since you claim to be so on par with reality, look at what is happening in America and look at the candidates for president. Who can realistically and consistently provide the most change? His voting record tells the whole story.
Actually the numbers of voters in the recent few ATS polls have also had majority of voters who were NON ATS members.
When trying to make a point like the one you made, you can't pick one poll and ignore the others.
I'm a pretty big Ron Paul supporter but I've never said he had a HUGE following, and I do believe most people here have been saying that he has a GROWING base (which is true, his support has at least quadrupled since the 08 campaign). Please don't confuse a growing and a already large support base.
You really give little credit to Ron Paul's grassroots supporters though, he has the most hardcore volunteers and the most organized grassroots of the GOP candidates.
In my opinion, if you want actual change, Ron Paul is probably the last person that can offer this. Since you claim to be so on par with reality, look at what is happening in America and look at the candidates for president. Who can realistically and consistently provide the most change? His voting record tells the whole story.
Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by schuyler
Funny now how the mainstream media is starting to attack social media, huh? Blaming it for flash mobs, and criminal activity, among other things. They see they don't completely control the message anymore, and that's why Ron Paul's base is growing. Social media.
You just cut your own throat.
You equated criminal activity with Ron Paul Base supporters.
If you can do it so can the professionals which you can bet they will do. Hahahaha
So now we can add to the list.
1) Apathetic Base with zero confidence
2) Racist Newsletter bombshells ready to sink ship at any moment
3) Base are sympathetic to and/or made up from social media criminals
4)He wants to take away your govt checks and force you to beg at the doorstep of religion and wealthy charity orgs where rich people such as George Soros dump cash into for tax breaks.
Grovel at the feet of religion and the wealthy elite like the dogs you are. Hahahaha what a message.
A nice counter to your canned talking point propaganda intended to paint Ron Paul as all rosey rainbows in an amateurly transparent attempt to brainwash the masses.
edit on 20-8-2011 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)
reply to post by TinfoilTP
Um, what?
I was pointing how all of the sudden social media is the enemy of the mainstream media, not sure how that ties Ron Paul supporters with criminal activity. But whatever you say. And you were proven wrong in regards to the "racist letters" as well. It's more than obvious you're just playing games, for whatever reason.
Um, what?
I was pointing how all of the sudden social media is the enemy of the mainstream media, not sure how that ties Ron Paul supporters with criminal activity. But whatever you say. And you were proven wrong in regards to the "racist letters" as well. It's more than obvious you're just playing games, for whatever reason.
Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by TinfoilTP
Um, what?
I was pointing how all of the sudden social media is the enemy of the mainstream media, not sure how that ties Ron Paul supporters with criminal activity. But whatever you say. And you were proven wrong in regards to the "racist letters" as well. It's more than obvious you're just playing games, for whatever reason.
It's a Newsletter Publication, not some "letters", as you very well know. Nice try to downplay them and no they have never been proven wrong. Ron Paul denied them then in a Congressional run tried to justify writing them based on statistical facts, then he attributed them to a ghost writer saying he lied when he admitted to them earlier. This is never going away, it was just put on the shelf for if he ever becomes a big time player.
Originally posted by TinfoilTP
4)He wants to take away your govt checks and force you to beg at the doorstep of religion and wealthy charity orgs where rich people such as George Soros dump cash into for tax breaks.
Grovel at the feet of religion and the wealthy elite like the dogs you are. Hahahaha what a message.
That is definitely something that you can make stick. Although even he wouldn't be able to achieve that as President in one term, if he and his supporters have their way both in the Congress and the Presidency for something like 12 years, you can definitely expect the winding up of social programmes.
I am not sure how many receive "their government cheques" or would expect to do so if only Ron Paul and like don't control the Congress and Presidency, but Dr. Paul can sure forget getting their votes. I can also bet Dr. Paul is not counting on getting their votes either. However, those not depending on "their government cheques", but believe helping the needy is their obligation, most definitely needn't find Dr. Paul a problem, because he is certainly not going to be preventing from doing so. And on other policies Dr. Paul may be closer to their agenda than the traditional "left-wing" politicans who received their support.
Anyway, if something interesting happens before November 2012, as I suspect it will, and Obama himself fails to deliver them "their government cheques", that may simply become a non-issue
Originally posted by TinfoilTP
It's a Newsletter Publication, not some "letters", as you very well know. Nice try to downplay them and no they have never been proven wrong. Ron Paul denied them then in a Congressional run tried to justify writing them based on statistical facts, then he attributed them to a ghost writer saying he lied when he admitted to them earlier. This is never going away, it was just put on the shelf for if he ever becomes a big time player.
Unless timed properly, it could work to his advantage. There is not enough in it to turn normal voters away from him, but the White Supremacists (who I have been told are growing in numbers) may find a hero in him
reply to post by TinfoilTP
I love how because you can't dig up any dirt on him you have to pull this 'racism card' again. He didn't write it, it was apart of Ron Paul Newsletters in which he would submit the occasional piece. He didn't even know what was written in the article until 10 years later when he ran for congress and the media brought it up to attack him. Right now you're just making things up with no proof trying to discredit Ron Paul like you've always been.
Here is Nelson Linder, NAACP District leader in Austin Texas in an interview backing Ron Paul that he is NOT a racist.
www.youtube.com...
Ron Paul himself on this particular subject, not like you'd believe it since you're trolling.
www.youtube.com...
You'd think of 30 years being in the public light a true racist would show himself. One incident taken completely out of context proves you're a racist? lol you're foolin yourself boy.
TinFoilTP quit trolling and look for facts, not pre-made clipped videos put together for conveniently attacking those you already don't like.
I love how because you can't dig up any dirt on him you have to pull this 'racism card' again. He didn't write it, it was apart of Ron Paul Newsletters in which he would submit the occasional piece. He didn't even know what was written in the article until 10 years later when he ran for congress and the media brought it up to attack him. Right now you're just making things up with no proof trying to discredit Ron Paul like you've always been.
Here is Nelson Linder, NAACP District leader in Austin Texas in an interview backing Ron Paul that he is NOT a racist.
www.youtube.com...
Ron Paul himself on this particular subject, not like you'd believe it since you're trolling.
www.youtube.com...
You'd think of 30 years being in the public light a true racist would show himself. One incident taken completely out of context proves you're a racist? lol you're foolin yourself boy.
TinFoilTP quit trolling and look for facts, not pre-made clipped videos put together for conveniently attacking those you already don't like.
edit on 20-8-2011 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by schuyler
There were 17,783 votes, but 12,865 were from non-members. That means less than 5,000 votes were from ATS members themselves. Yet there are over 100,000 active ATS members. The site has gained almost 40,000 new members in the last year and over 3,000 in the last thirty days.
So what happened? What always happens with a Ron Paul poll. A few Ron Paul supporters spread the word and Ron Paul supporters from throughout the Internet hopped on over here to vote in the poll. 72% of the voters weren't even ATS members! So what does that poll tell you? Nothing. Less than 5% of the active ATS members even bothered to vote.
I wasn't logged in when I voted. But I voted for Ron Paul. So for what it's worth, maybe others were like me and we're too lazy to log in before they voted.
Ron Paul: Florida, 8-19-2011
edit on 20-8-2011 by me because: asdf
edit on 20-8-2011 by mE because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-8-2011 by
ME because: asdf
edit on 20-8-2011 by w4HoO because: asdf
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