"gangsta" fad

I've u2u'd as this thread is becoming an attack on the other person...

These are merely perspectives, everybody has opinions...

I still say gangsta fad is bad... bad bad bad...

listen to rap all you want, just don't mirror what you see and hear, it's not reality, well it is, it's just a criminal reality... you don't get far taking part in that, the only place youll wind up is in jail... or dead... or on the street.... or on welfare leeching off others...

Lemme talk some caribbean english now. Now tell me in front of ma face that monkeys does raise me. Tell me I a stupid fool by talking like this. Tell me it just in style to be talking like this and that it goin pass away when I grow up. Tell me I could never get a decent life and a education by talkin like this. Please tell me my english ain't good enough. This is the english I does speak with my family and people around me. This is what I be and how I raise. Tell me I stupid. Tell me I backwards and uncivilized. Please tell me.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Lemme talk some caribbean english now.

It's completely different. That's another country, another area. Accents are different than being uneducated.

Oh, and dreamlandmafia: You're pretty good at twisting people's words around.

[Edited on 23-8-2004 by Herman]

Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Lemme talk some caribbean english now.

It's completely different. That's another country, another area. Accents are different than being uneducated.
Oh, and dreamlandmafia: You're pretty good at twisting people's words around.

Yep. yep, and yup.

Accents are different... You are in another country... Slang isn't language it's street talk, you don't get a job here in America speaking street language, it just doesn't happen, accents are different, plus there is Eurpean english, American english, caribbean english, scottish english, irish english, so don't go getting your panties in a bunch...

Your not uneducated bandit don't beat yourself up :p your just speak a different type of english..

Yeah True lies, generalize all you want.

Just mirror what you see and hear in Heavy Metal - you'll become a stage bashing, suicidal, coc aine overdosing vandalising rocker...

Just mirror what you see and hear in 60's rock - you'll become a lsd using, weed smoking, constantly protesting slackin hippy

Just mirror what you see and hear in 50's rock - you'll become an uneducated bum with a leather jacket who thinks he's cool

Just mirror big band music - you'll become a cigarrette smokin', murdering gun toting mob gangster

Originally posted by dreamlandmafia

Blame Whitey?? I am White. Im just stating that all the old white folk blame rap or anything else that they dont like on just about everything wrong in this country.

Kinda hypocritical arent we?? Saying I generalize everybody into the same group. When you yourself just made a fast generalization about me.

You did just generalize.

I am old and white and couldnt give a # less if you listen to rap and wear your pants half way down your ass

To each his own

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Yeah True lies, generalize all you want.

Just mirror what you see and hear in Heavy Metal - you'll become a stage bashing, suicidal, coc aine overdosing vandalising rocker...

Just mirror what you see and hear in 60's rock - you'll become a lsd using, weed smoking, constantly protesting slackin hippy

Just mirror what you see and hear in 50's rock - you'll become an uneducated bum with a leather jacket who thinks he's cool

Just mirror big band music - you'll become a cigarrette smokin', murdering gun toting mob gangster

Anything's possible when you have an impressionable mind and want to be in the "in" crowd...

I may piss you off and obviously I have, but it's still my perspective and I appreciate your snide remarks I really do, however it's all possible, it's all been done before... anyway i'm done, i don't need to defend my position anymore then you need to defend yours, but if you had more of an objective mind i'm sure this conversation wouldn't be so shallow and immature...

[Edited on 23-8-2004 by TrueLies]

You didn't piss me off one bit. I was just applying your example to other kinds of music.

And believe me, there is not one person that's immune to having an impressionable mind... Unless the person is a master who has conscious control of his subconscious thought processes and habits...

All she was saying is that it's the youth. Our youth's minds are the MOST impressionable. While an adult, or someone that's matured may look at that and, even if they like it, might just think "That's cool" and maybe use a few of the phrases from what he thought was "cool". A youth might look at it and turn his whole life around, in effort to act like what he see's on tv.

Originally posted by Herman
It's completely different. That's another country, another area. Accents are different than being uneducated.

Oh, and dreamlandmafia: You're pretty good at twisting people's words around.

Strange, now I see this post.

I may be in another country, but don't forget how huge the United states is. People will come with dialects. Ebonics is a dialect. Languages evolve to the circumstances good or bad. I heard a Texan speak a few weeks ago. I had trouble understanding him and I even thought he was scottish in the beginning.

The Netherlands is a small country about -100 by 300km- Yet they speak different dialects in different parts of the country. Much of the population doesn't understand the language they speak in the northern part of the country, which is Frisian.
In certain parts of Spain they speak Basque. In Italy they have different dialects and some Italians can't understand each other. I'm sure that in France there are populations with their own dialect. In Belgium they speak French in one part of the country and Flemish in another part. In Switzerland it's either German, French or Italian. All of these in the same countries which are much smaller than the U.S. and have a much smaller population than the U.S. And in these countries you can bet your socks that these people would rather speak their own dialect than speak the national language, even though some of their own countrymen will call them stupid or raised by monkeys (sound familiar?) because of their dialect.

So I would understand 100% if African Americans developed their own dialect, especially when there was a sort of apartheid in the first half of the 20th century. Ebonics has existed for decades already. It's not only just a passing fad.


1000 years from now (if we reach that far) I am sure that proper English will be something totally different than what we speak right now. If a timetraveler came from 1000 years in the future and spoke only his English, we would have lots of trouble understanding him.


No language stays the same. Languages evolve... Deal with it.

[Edited on 24-8-2004 by TheBandit795]

No, once again: There's languages, accents...then there's just being uneducated. I'm not saying all black people speak like this, or that everyone who speaks like this is black! Yes, African American's do have their own way of speaking, but that's not what we're referring to. We're referring to the "gangsta" thing. "Fo shizzle" is not a dialect. "Sup Dawg" is not an accent. "Ima popa cap in dat biotch" is NOT an accent or a dialect. See, if it was a dialect, it would be confined to an area, because that's how they all grew up speaking. It's different.

It is a dialect. But it has been made mainstream. That's all. Valley girl talk was another dialect that was made mainstream. Jamaican English is spoken and imitated in different countries (Ali G helped popularize it, even though what he speaks in his shows is terrible ) but it's still a dialect. In some parts of England it's "so cool" now to speak Caribbean English just like Ebonics in the U.S.. But that doesn't take away that it's a dialect.

Well, this thread is about the gangsta rap fad in America, so other countries' dialects and such don't really matter for the purpose of this particular discussion.

The bottom line here is that if you want to be successful and get a decent job here in the U.S., you have to conform to the mainstream. Rap slang isn't mainstream. It's barely the english language. And though it's a fad that may pass, it's affecting young people drastically before it can go away or they can outgrow it. My ex's nephews are early 20's and still "go git der boyz" to go beat people down that they "gotta beef wit". They're unemployed because they go to fast food places and such with their whole posse and try to get a job, which of course they don't. A boss doesn't want to hire someone who shows up with 15 people to apply for a job. Doesn't want to hire someone who can barely speak proper english and is more interested in looking cool and bored than in really trying to get the job. Then he comes home and when his mother jumps him about not working, he says he tried to get a job, but "dese mufukkas ain't down widdit". It's not all whites doing the hiring anymore, either. A black manager doesn't want to be saddled with Snoop Jr. when he/she has had to work hard and present themselves in a professional manner to get where they are. Same goes for hispanic managers. They want a good crew, reliable and able to deal with the customers. They don't want anybody's posse hanging around the place waiting for their homeboy to get off work or slide them free stuff. And these guys will NEVER get a decent office job or anything above the bluest of blue collar. It's a shame. This fad is not passing quickly enough for them to salvage anything of their lives from it.

As far as it being a dangerous fad, I completely agree. Not just because of the regressive nature of the male/female roles in society being shown, but because many of the lethal crimes taking place now are being done by young people who place almost no value on human life. I listened to Metallica and Zeppelin growing up. I didn't get a bunch of friends together and beat anyone to death for the rims on their car. Didn't kill or shoot people almost every day (watch Washington D.C. news, the start of the school year is not a joyous event) over petty things and issues. They're going to jail for murder and other serious felonies before they even really have a chance at life, and it's because it's a lifestyle. Not all rap. Not all hip-hop. But the gangsta rap which makes these activities the basis for gaining respect. That's the problem. Being a fad doesn't make it any less dangerous.

I worked with a woman who had Jamaican family, was from New York and was very talented at imitating a variety of accents. She would speak the dialect on the phone with her family, then put them on hold to take a customer call and immediately slip into her "professional phone person" voice, then back to her family's dialect again, seamlessly. The problem isn't with people being able to change back and forth to conform to any situation. It's with people not being able to. Only knowing the incorrect way to speak and present themselves. Those who can't see it for what it is and fall prey to a false "lifestyle" are going to be the adult burdens on society later on. Not fair to them, not fair to everyone else.

[Edited on 24-8-2004 by torque]

Thanks, this is the best post I've seen in this thread although I don't agree with it 100%. Maybe 70-80%.

Let me set some things straight....I took plenty of courses on linguistics in college to forumlate my own opinion based on scientifc fact that Ebonics is no more different a form of English than that of what someone from Maryland may sound like to a person from Alabma....every country has these variations in dialects

Another form of dialectacal variation is called diglossia. This is when different forms of the same language are broken down by not only dialects, but also socio-econmic levels....in many cases, although not all, ebonics falls into this category...

The Linguistic Society of America has this to say:

a. The variety known as "Ebonics," "African American Vernacular English" (AAVE), and "Vernacular Black English" and by other names is systematic and rule-governed like all natural speech varieties. In fact, all human linguistic systems--spoken, signed, and written -- are fundamentally regular. The systematic and expressive nature of the grammar and pronunciation patterns of the African American vernacular has been established by numerous scientific studies over the past thirty years. Characterizations of Ebonics as "slang," "mutant," " lazy," "defective," "ungrammatical," or "broken English" are incorrect and demeaning.

b. The distinction between "languages" and "dialects" is usually made more on social and political grounds than on purely linguistic ones. For example, different varieties of Chinese are popularly regarded as "dialects," though their speakers cannot understand each other, but speakers of Swedish and Norwegian, which are regarded as separate "languages," generally understand each other. What is important from a linguistic and educational point of view is not whether AAVE is called a "language" or a "dialect" but rather that its systematicity be recognized.

c. As affirmed in the LSA Statement of Language Rights (June l996), there are individual and group benefits to maintaining vernacular speech varieties and there are scientific and human advantages to linguistic diversity. For those living in the United States there are also benefits in acquiring Standard English and resources should be made available to all who aspire to mastery of Standard English. The Oakland School Board's commitment to helping students master Standard English is commendable.

d. There is evidence from Sweden, the US, and other countries that speakers of other varieties can be aided in their learning of the standard variety by pedagogical approaches which recognize the legitimacy of the other varieties of a language. From this perspective, the Oakland School Board's decision to recognize the vernacular of African American students in teaching them Standard English is linguistically and pedagogically sound.

Rap spreads slang...not ebonics...Ebonics was created during slavery - of course one can argue that alot of the hostility in the "gangsta" music can be directly corresponded to repressed anger of pre-civil rights. Most African Americans simply see it as black-on-black crime, and those that understand that premise can safely listen to the music without endagering or annoying others....

I listen to rap occasionally - To dismiss it as not being music is the same as those people from the 50s and 60s who called rock the spawn of the devil - it's just people who don't understand the culture and point fingers to solver their problems....

If you don't like it, it's not that hard to ignore it - If you enjoy it, then good for you - but why in the hell do people have to continuley blame one thing for another? Grow up....and learn that what happens in life is not the result of one, two, or three things, but many multi-faciated layers of cause and effect.....

There we go. To straight good posts... :up :up

This thread was about the "gangsta" fad. It's about how it's annoying that people will PURPOSEFULLY take the way they speak, and turn it around, using bad grammar and mis-pronouncing words in order to sound cool. Like I said, I'm not talking about the accent that African American's generally have; that's a dialect. Things like "Fo-shizzle" and such are just purposefully speaking that way to try to sound cool. It's not a dialect or an accent. I'm not racist. I have minority friends, I don't care if they're minorities. I have friends from other countries, they have accents. I think it's fair, and definately not racist to be annoyed by the way people speak in order to sound like a "Gangsta". Like I said, it's not just black people. White people do it to. It's equally annoying no matter what race you are.

Originally posted by Herman
Things like "Fo-shizzle" and such are just purposefully speaking that way to try to sound cool. It's not a dialect or an accent.

Try and tell that to a linguist!

I cannot tell you how many times I busted out laughing in class b/c the teacher was actually phonetically breaking down words like "whack" and "phat" - just hearing a guy with a PhD saying them aloud in class with a serious look on his face is hilarious....

It's a word...someone created it and its put into circulation by millions of people who use it jokingly or purposefully....but in that culture, "fo-shizzle" serves a purpose....if we are to study a culture from an outside perspective, learning the language and vocabulary is one of the most important things to do - there are many lost languages and dialects, and while you may not think it's worth preserving, 250 years from now there are going to be many "mutations" in English and without considering Ebonics as a form of English and studying it, the word's origins would be lost after several generations.....

Ok, when rap declares it's-self a different language, or a different culture...then yeah, I'll accept it as part of the English language. But, for now, it's just mindless dribble.

Originally posted by Herman
Ok, when rap declares it's-self a different language, or a different culture...then yeah, I'll accept it as part of the English language. But, for now, it's just mindless dribble.

Three cheers for Herman .....
It is what it is, many organizations don't know what they aer talking about, I understand the principles of linguistics but it gets ridiculous when they start putting "bling-bling" in the dictionary......

Remind me not to buy whoever makes that book btw, I don't want to be an enabler...