This is the single most important issue in the history of the world

im not sure what you are talking about, sir.

You know the"grid" may go down( transmission lines /distribution transformers and switchgear from emp) but seems to me a nuclear POWERplant creates electricity from steam right there onsite the reaction actually needs no power ( besides cooling pumps and control power.)
Why in the world ( facepalm!) doesn't some engineer add a small specially(ISOLATED FROM OUTSIDE LINES) shielded turbine/generator in the existing steam plumbing just for such emergency power?

D'OH!!!!???

reply to post by 2Unknown


This is something I have considered for a long time.

I brought this up to a guy I met at a BBQ a few weeks ago, he was one of those people you know you can talk to because within 5 minutes of meeting him he was talking about conspiracy theories.

Anyway, yeah... None of the nuke plants are hardened against EMP. I don't think there has ever been any official conversation about it either. I've long thought this was the ultimate problem for humanity, and all other life on Earth. I wonder if this question was asked of a nuclear regulator what their response would be. Perhaps an email is in order...

reply to post by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
As for your hunch, maybe you should do some independent thinkng. You know, the kind of thinking that's not spoon-fed to you by TV?

Cause a troll like you knows I get all my information from the TV (am I the only who noticed I'm on an alternative news site?)

As for Independent thinking, looks like I had some, it didn't flow with your thinking (you know, the kind that's forcefully shoved down your throat as truth with nothing to corroborate your claims)

And really? You're going to compare tsunami damage to CME damage? Apples and Oranges!

I pity you, it must suck not being able to sleep at night thinking the boogey man is gonna getchya if you close your eyes for a minute.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Single most important issue in the history of the world.

Urm right yeh .


Slight exaggeration their my friend. Have you worked at a nuclear
Power plant or first hand knowledge of how an undamaged reactor core can
Be sealed minutes after such an event.

Why didn't you entitle your thread . The biggest most important massive galactic issue ever to face anything ever created.

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

Please not again...How many times does it have to be repeated on this site that this solar cycle is WEAKEST in over a CENTURY.
The only thing Nasa is saying is that we are moving towards a solar max which means solar flare activity will increase and so will the likelyhood of power outages and such. The chances of this happening is still lower than during previous solar maximums when nothing overly bad happened...

I agree that we need to do something about the nuclear plants though, but this hysteria around sun is really just bull.
If this was a normal solar cycle we would have had a average sunspot number well over 100 sunspots at all times and sun would look like this: link instead of this: link

edit on 12-8-2011 by juleol because: (no reason given)

You are correct it is a very weak cycle. Lots of people jumped on the propaganda train with this report.

And there in lies the problem. The amount of electromagnetic energy stored under the surface of the sun is not going to get enough sunspots to anchor the fields and allow it to release in a normal manner.

This cycle matches the carrington cycle exactly. Its a carbon copy. However the minimum that occurred for an extended length of time before this cycle started is the issue. As the stored energy anchors to the cooler spots it will attempt to release the excess energy causing larger and larger flares through 2014. Flares and CME energy are two completely different things. Combustion in your motor can increase pressure incredibly, but its the leaky valves that allow fuel into the exhaust system to cause a backfire.

To better explain, research all of the instruments that are on the newest sun orbiting sats. The answer to the question is not what they make freely available for viewing on the net. Its the other instruments, they don't discuss. That is where you will find your missing puzzle pieces. There is much that no one is told and those other instruments are the key.


On topic, its not so much that the reactor controls are not shielded as they are on the newer plants. Its the loss of the modern communication network that is the greatest risk. Getting help if there is a serious problem.

Maybe the comet is causing the extra flares > and what comes with it too is more dangerous for us and the nuke plants than just cme s .
Global catasrophes come more often than we think ; like every few hundred or thousand years, not millions, as the ptb would prefer us to think. The seas have been in and over the lands lots more times than they care to recognise and hence we are not supposed to know. A global earthquake accompanying pole shift/reversal is also potential complete disaster for nuke plants , and us.

While it could be seen as a lunatic fringe idea to say this , maybe we have got more friends in the universe than we actually know. And they are possibly more powerful than we can comprehend . They may be able, somehow, to neutralise radiation, while it may be used to power their craft .

One more thing , while I'll stay looking on the bright side > if they can render nuke plants safe, they can ID and destroy the PTB , by name and face. The incoming comet may provide a perfect opportunity for a fresh start. All hail then , and I will keep beleiving in God , too.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


quite the sensational headline, i was intrigued enough to stop and read. to have an effect on your concern it will take an incredible amount of people joining up with established anti-nuclear power groups to provide support and funding for their specific cause. i can't imagine how many lawyers and professionals will be required to do legal battle against the immensely wealthy corporate interests that run those plants for profit. one would also need to address those corporations friends in government as well as provide the alternative answer to providing power for the existing customer base. the alternative power source will not only need to be proven, it will require the financial backing to make a dream into reality.

i'm all for it. mankind should well realize by now of the incredible dangers we are not able to contain that may be a side effect of using nuclear power plants. we've had too many incredible catastrophes in the usa and abroad.

weeks ago i read online that germany is going to cease using nuclear power. less than a week later i read president obama is loosening regulations of these plants in america. this in the recent wake of fukushima, the long shadow of chernobyl, and dozens of situations that have occurred in america.

this is one more topic where i doubt the realistic and justified fears and concerns of american citizens will be addressed by government and industry beyond the level of smoke & mirrors lip service. in this young country we seem to have a history of short-range thinking with emphasis on immediate gratification and corporate profit. mankind is destined to suffer greatly for the incredible damage we wreak upon the earth. we do need to address our energy needs and concerns; this is greatly overdue. i feel bad knowing there have been concerned citizens addressing this subject since before the fist nuclear plant went online.

i'm willing to lend my support to your concerns. looking forward to reading more.

While I feel the problem of solar flares killing the power and thusly causing nuclear doom is not an issue, I do feel that we will be seeing a harsher envoirnment in the future and things such as hurricanes, earthquakes, etc will be a risk these plants will have to endure. Naturally, a great suggestion would be to find alternate sources of power -- but we all know that is not going to happen with TPTB. If anything, the situation is a dice roll, and the dice has more faces than I care to count.

There are more important natural things coming our way that we should be immediately preparing for however just like this, the vast majority choose not to. I think the fear comes from the fact that while you can hide in a bunker from the tornado / hurricane, radiation is hard to avoid for the average person.

I will do a little homework on how a plant would react to this and post again later as I do not know what kind of safety measures they have - but I would imagine something such as a power outage for a power plant is something they should be able to handle.

Ugh...

The short-sighted naivety of normalcy bias is sickening in this thread.

Do you people not get it ?

There are 101 different potential disasters that could happen... and then there are another 101 potential disasters that we haven't even thought of yet as an "electricity on demand" fully dependant society.

Anything could wipe out the power grid for thousands of square miles all around with no hope of getting it back up and running for days, weeks, months, and even years. And a pissant little backup power generator designed for only temporary power interruptions will NOT suffice in such a large scale event.

Yes, that's right... temporary backup systems designed for temporary power interruptions only... do your homework on nuclear power plants around the world people. If an entire section of a country were to lose its flow of electricity, good luck in acquiring the components and manpower required to get it back up and running within just a few days.

The minute a nuclear power plant is built and turned on, pandora's box has been opened with no way to put the damn lid back down on it. Manmade nuclear fission (chemical reactions) continues on its own and we have NO control of stopping it. Cooling systems do not stop the fission process, they only control the rate at which it happens... lose that temperature control for more than a couple of hours, half a day, a whole day, a few days, a week, a month... and kiss it all goodbye.

Oh and by the way: Those cooling systems must now be in continuous operation for thousands of years keeping the temperatures at bay until those non-stop chemical reactions finally exhaust themselves out.

Wake the hell up.

And here's another wakeup call for all you "asleep-at-the-wheel spoonfed deniers of ugly truths": A friggin "terrorist" could fly a damn airplane (sound familiar ?!) into a nuclear reactor surrounded by a highly populated area and within hours/days thousands upon thousands of square miles all around would be obliterated of all life. DO NOT mistake this type of scenario with a gradual meltdown scenario like that of Fukishima.

These damn things are ticking time bombs. Nuclear ticking time bombs.

There are hundreds of disasters that could take place that could easily wipe out our ability to keep temperature control of the fission process in the dire timeline limitations that we have with this particular science.

This IS one of the most important issues hanging over our heads in today's society and just because there are those that prefer to put their heads in the sand about it, does not make it non-existent.

The only control we have at this point is to slowly phase out this killer non-sustainable technology... admit our mistakes by taking corrective actions... and hope to hell we can do so before the inevitable happens.

Carrington style event CME ?
Pfft, please... one of many inevitable scenarios we're guaranteed to see one day.

This is not fearmongering.
This is fact.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

Did not know that and I will look up the dates and see what happened there.

Astronomy is not really my area of study so always glad to increase my knowledge on that subject.

So, start asking questions and stop making stupid, ignorant comments. Not the first thread today....

reply to post by Visiting ESB


local generators, of course.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


I've done a lot of telecommunications and web hosting facility work. You would not believe the levels of redundancy. There are failsafe measures (and failsafes on the failsafes) to make sure things stay running in even the most horrific of accidents. I've read that they have these measures and more in place at nuclear facilities as well. The problem at Fukushima is that the systems were in a poor state and the company turned the other cheek rather than address the problems, and they got caught with their pants down by the "perfect storm". Can a huge solar storm knock out power? Yes, that's possible. Will our nuclear reactors melt down because of it? No. Now maybe if a combination of disasters hit at once, like an earthquake disrupted the supply of cooling water while at the same time a solar storm knocked out the power grid. The possibilities of that are so remote that I don't lose any sleep over it. But then again, I don't live near a reactor either

Originally posted by SavedOne
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

I've done a lot of telecommunications and web hosting facility work. You would not believe the levels of redundancy. There are failsafe measures (and failsafes on the failsafes) to make sure things stay running in even the most horrific of accidents. I've read that they have these measures and more in place at nuclear facilities as well. The problem at Fukushima is that the systems were in a poor state and the company turned the other cheek rather than address the problems, and they got caught with their pants down by the "perfect storm". Can a huge solar storm knock out power? Yes, that's possible. Will our nuclear reactors melt down because of it? No. Now maybe if a combination of disasters hit at once, like an earthquake disrupted the supply of cooling water while at the same time a solar storm knocked out the power grid. The possibilities of that are so remote that I don't lose any sleep over it. But then again, I don't live near a reactor either

Is this why they built so many reactors in earthquake and flood prone areas? Yup, they would definately cover every angle to protect us. Greedy, ignorant idiots are the issue as usual.

edit on 12-8-2011 by colbyforce because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-8-2011 by colbyforce because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Anything could wipe out the power grid for thousands of square miles all around with no hope of getting it back up and running for days, weeks, months, and even years. And a pissant little backup power generator designed for only temporary power interruptions will NOT suffice in such a large scale event.

Generators are intended to bridge the gap between outages rather than maintain systems for a long period of time, but nevertheless, they CAN maintain systems indefinitely as long as they are kept fueled. And as far as your "pissant little backup power generator" comment, I laughed out loud at that one You should see some of the generator jobs my office has done. They're staggering in size and scope. We did a web hosting facility that had a bank of 20 1 megawatt gensets housed in acoustical housings. Each one is around 30' long and 12' wide. We're not talking about a rickety little Home Depot 5 hp generator that you fill up like a lawnmower, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
And here's another wakeup call for all you "asleep-at-the-wheel spoonfed deniers of ugly truths": A friggin "terrorist" could fly a damn airplane (sound familiar ?!) into a nuclear reactor surrounded by a highly populated area and within hours/days thousands upon thousands of square miles all around would be obliterated of all life.

Sure, and a meteor could hit the earth and wipe everything out, or the sun could go supernova and boil us alive, or a new ice age could freeze us to death or ________ (fill in the blank with the fearmongering scenario of your choice). One thing I've learned in my over 50 years on planet earth is the things that we worry about never happen while the terrible things that happen are the ones we never anticipated.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Ugh...

The short-sighted naivety of normalcy bias is sickening in this thread.

Do you people not get it ?

There are 101 different potential disasters that could happen... and then there are another 101 potential disasters that we haven't even thought of yet as an "electricity on demand" fully dependant society.

Anything could wipe out the power grid for thousands of square miles all around with no hope of getting it back up and running for days, weeks, months, and even years. And a pissant little backup power generator designed for only temporary power interruptions will NOT suffice in such a large scale event.

Yes, that's right... temporary backup systems designed for temporary power interruptions only... do your homework on nuclear power plants around the world people. If an entire section of a country were to lose its flow of electricity, good luck in acquiring the components and manpower required to get it back up and running within just a few days.

The minute a nuclear power plant is built and turned on, pandora's box has been opened with no way to put the damn lid back down on it. Manmade nuclear fission (chemical reactions) continues on its own and we have NO control of stopping it. Cooling systems do not stop the fission process, they only control the rate at which it happens... lose that temperature control for more than a couple of hours, half a day, a whole day, a few days, a week, a month... and kiss it all goodbye.

Oh and by the way: Those cooling systems must now be in continuous operation for thousands of years keeping the temperatures at bay until those non-stop chemical reactions finally exhaust themselves out.

Wake the hell up.

And here's another wakeup call for all you "asleep-at-the-wheel spoonfed deniers of ugly truths": A friggin "terrorist" could fly a damn airplane (sound familiar ?!) into a nuclear reactor surrounded by a highly populated area and within hours/days thousands upon thousands of square miles all around would be obliterated of all life. DO NOT mistake this type of scenario with a gradual meltdown scenario like that of Fukishima.

These damn things are ticking time bombs. Nuclear ticking time bombs.

There are hundreds of disasters that could take place that could easily wipe out our ability to keep temperature control of the fission process in the dire timeline limitations that we have with this particular science.

This IS one of the most important issues hanging over our heads in today's society and just because there are those that prefer to put their heads in the sand about it, does not make it non-existent.

The only control we have at this point is to slowly phase out this killer non-sustainable technology... admit our mistakes by taking corrective actions... and hope to hell we can do so before the inevitable happens.

Carrington style event CME ?
Pfft, please... one of many inevitable scenarios we're guaranteed to see one day.

This is not fearmongering.




This is fact.

This is all true, people. So many self appointed nuclear experts around today... Frustrating. I sense ignorant internet trolls and shills with little knowledge making alot of assumptions.

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Ugh...

The short-sighted naivety of normalcy bias is sickening in this thread.

Do you people not get it ?

There are 101 different potential disasters that could happen... and then there are another 101 potential disasters that we haven't even thought of yet as an "electricity on demand" fully dependant society.

Anything could wipe out the power grid for thousands of square miles all around with no hope of getting it back up and running for days, weeks, months, and even years. And a pissant little backup power generator designed for only temporary power interruptions will NOT suffice in such a large scale event.

Yes, that's right... temporary backup systems designed for temporary power interruptions only... do your homework on nuclear power plants around the world people. If an entire section of a country were to lose its flow of electricity, good luck in acquiring the components and manpower required to get it back up and running within just a few days.

The minute a nuclear power plant is built and turned on, pandora's box has been opened with no way to put the damn lid back down on it. Manmade nuclear fission (chemical reactions) continues on its own and we have NO control of stopping it. Cooling systems do not stop the fission process, they only control the rate at which it happens... lose that temperature control for more than a couple of hours, half a day, a whole day, a few days, a week, a month... and kiss it all goodbye.

Oh and by the way: Those cooling systems must now be in continuous operation for thousands of years keeping the temperatures at bay until those non-stop chemical reactions finally exhaust themselves out.

Wake the hell up.

And here's another wakeup call for all you "asleep-at-the-wheel spoonfed deniers of ugly truths": A friggin "terrorist" could fly a damn airplane (sound familiar ?!) into a nuclear reactor surrounded by a highly populated area and within hours/days thousands upon thousands of square miles all around would be obliterated of all life. DO NOT mistake this type of scenario with a gradual meltdown scenario like that of Fukishima.

These damn things are ticking time bombs. Nuclear ticking time bombs.

There are hundreds of disasters that could take place that could easily wipe out our ability to keep temperature control of the fission process in the dire timeline limitations that we have with this particular science.

This IS one of the most important issues hanging over our heads in today's society and just because there are those that prefer to put their heads in the sand about it, does not make it non-existent.

The only control we have at this point is to slowly phase out this killer non-sustainable technology... admit our mistakes by taking corrective actions... and hope to hell we can do so before the inevitable happens.

Carrington style event CME ?
Pfft, please... one of many inevitable scenarios we're guaranteed to see one day.

This is not fearmongering.




This is fact.

This is all true, people. So many self appointed nuclear experts around today... Frustrating. I sense ignorant internet trolls and shills with little knowledge making alot of assumptions.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Military would be fully shielded in the same way they are from EMP and by the same stuff, to my understanding, but no one else is. Not a calamity..until the Nuclear Plant issue comes into it. Yikes!

Actually, the weapon systems I worked with are NOT EM shielded at all, the M109A6 self-propelled howitzer I worked with would not even start if it got EMPed, it's hard enough to keep these things running WITHOUT EMP's.

Military equipment is very crude but still rely on an electronic starter.

I guess we might have to invest in some horses and carriages....It probably wouldn't hurt to put electronics in a EM protected case somewhere so we can preserve data since most of it will be lost.

If we survive the nuclear wasteland ofcourse.

Good point OP, I sincerely hope NASA is wrong.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
you mean spend money to possibly save lives???

they would never...

Yeah, God forbid they lose a buck in the name of humanity. On another note, The Japanese disaster is the biggest modern day cover up in mankind. An almost complete media blackout. It's unbelievable. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by colbyforce
Is this why they built so many reactors in earthquake and flood prone areas?

I'm an architect, have been for 26 years. I couldn't begin to explain to you the regulatory hoops we have to jump through to get a project approved, but rest assured it would make your head spin. The seismic zones in the US range from 0 to 4. There are few 0 areas and few 4 areas, most are inbetween. In other words, it's nearly impossible to build anything in this country without it being in a zone of seismic activity. There are many precautions taken when building in seismic zones, we have arguably the best seismic codes in the world and believe me, those codes are heavily enforced. Your concerns are misplaced.