I don't Believe Aliens Are Visiting This Planet

reply to post by Explanation


If you look at the so called "Hubble Deep Field" images and learn that the 5000+ galaxies (!) in

... The Ultra Deep Field observations, taken by the Advanced Camera for Surveys, represent a narrow, deep view of the cosmos. Peering into the Ultra Deep Field is like looking through an eight-foot-long soda straw.

In other words, this is an ultra tiny view of our sky which has THOUSANDS of galaxies in it. Each single galaxy in itself can have billions to hundreds of TRILLION stars.

Then pick one galaxy, imagine that "blob" is in fact 500 billion or so stars (with even more billions of planets) ...and then pick another galaxy in a total different area of the sky....our milky way, pick ONE star and then pick one planet, Earth.

It's ABSURD to assume that "Aliens" from all kinds of worlds would visit here simply because of those numbers and likelihoods - let alone the fact that man is a stupid race and there is no reason WHATSOEVER to come here except to "observe stupidity" on a grand scale.

If we assume (seeing all those galaxies and crazy numbers) that there are indeed many civilizations - there is a likelihood that there are many civilizations out there which would be far, far more worth visiting.

Originally posted by Lost_Mind

...Skepticism is not a box, to a true skeptic all possibilities are open whether liked or not but he will always gravitate to what is most probable until new evidence comes about to evolve the theory. By design, belief demands that you not look outside of your system for answers. It is a box. It is a tool of controlling thought. Being that this smacks of religion...

...Christianity is a box, Islam is a box, Atheism is a box, aliens everywhere is a box, no aliens at all is a box, UFOs are ET is a box as is UFO's are all terrestrial craft is a box.

I've always said that the true skeptics are MORE open minded than most people who call themselves staunch believers in alien visitation. The true and good skeptic will think outside that box in order to attempt to explain a particular UFO sighting, while many UFO believers try to fit every UFO sighting into the ET box. In that way, many UFO believers are closed-minded and constrain themselves to think inside the ET box.

Granted, some skeptics try TOO hard in trying to jam a UFO sighting into the "Earthly explanation" box. However, at the same time, if a particular UFO sighting cannot easily be explained as something Earthly, that does NOT mean that it should automatically be considered an ET. It is simply "unexplained".

"Unexplained" is neutral -- it's not necessarily an ET nor is it necessarily something Earthly.

Originally posted by flight-dynamics
I like this thread because it actually allows us to debate the facts supporting or not supporting the so called "alien theory".

Frankly, I like your post. Why? Because it contains clues to extremely important perspectives that SHOULD be paid attention to. Lets proceed.

Interestingly, a great number of scientific papers have been written by sociologists and philosophers regarding the "what if" scenario that an alien race (or races) were to come to earth and visit us.

By all accounts these scientists have concluded that IF aliens did exist, we presume too much that they come with kind hearted and warm feelings towards mankind. Our grasp for anything that might help our common situation as means towards "salvation" of mankind and his problems tends to drive people to the conclusion that as life evolves and supposedly becomes more intelligent (with higher technology) that we all get smarter and kinder towards others and other species. That hasn't been the case with our species so why do you think that if there were other species out there they would be any different?

Please read the above perspective and attempt to elucidate it's ill truths or lack of wisdom therein. I dare you. We truly are a magnificent creature/animal. Our accomplishments in relation to our technical and social facilitation are STUNNING within the extremely short time that we have been advancing at an exceptionally rapid pace. We DO NOT need/require/are deserving of, or any other new age horse #, "alien help". This poster has made something abundantly clear. We ARE intelligent life. We ARE the only means with respect to a comparison to extra(whatever) life that we ourselves can logically make. All else is speculation and we all know, or at least we should know, there is no end to speculation because speculation is nothing short of imagination run wild. It's good to exercise the mind to it's fullest potential (not possible BTW, more of that incredible stuff) so we can design aliens all day long with the best of 'em. That's what human beings are. We are instinct based, imagination facilitated, advanced intelligent life forms. There is no question however, that when you look around this fine planet, you will quickly observe that about 70% of the Earth's populous have a LOT of catching up to do. That's no bodies fault but their own and frankly, I am not one more bit compassionate concerning them than all the compassion that the aliens have shown the human race thus far, and by that which is evidenced, that accounts for big fat ZERO.

Evidence in the scientific and natural realms actually supports what these philosophers have written about. If aliens did exist (and its still in question), they are more likely to come with aggressive or hostile intentions - NOT kind or benevolent intentions.

Absofrickinlutely! Why should or would it be any different? Whether you postulate that alien life comes from other dimensions, or planets much like our own or completely different, there is ONE THING inherent to all life above all other things. Survival and maintenance of order within a social context that supports said primary premise.

So for all of the believers in aliens visting the earth past and present, ask yourself these questions: How many of the visitiations have actually reported that aliens seen or experienced actually did something good for mankind? Did they heal anyone's cancer? Did they bring us advanced technology to solve our energy crisis? Did they tell us the merits of not spending billions of dollars on war? No.

I have been asking this question since day one. Why the mysteries like crop circles? Why the "hidden directive"? (was watching "Ancient Aliens" last night, talk about a latch ditch effort to support a weak theory! - but quite entertaining) How about a nice magic trick for all the aboriginal locals eh? ANYTHING!?

In virtually every case these so called aliens do nothing to help people - or mankind. In fact they purposely remain hidden, mysterious, and vague. If they come with all of this benevolence and kind hearted "researcher instincts", they would be smart enough to work around governments that are "hiding the truth" from people. None of these aliens ever paid your bills, purchased you a new car, got you a better job, found you a wife, etc

.

Right again. Just simple common sense here folks. Nothing high in the sky or mysterious, BUT, can you argue?

Personally I think aliens do not exist. People want them to exist because they cannot explain real paranormal events so they conclude it must be aliens visiting the earth. There is no doubt a real phenomena, but the alien conclusion is the default hypothesis fueled by speculation by people who cannot find the answer to the question.

Personally, I DO believe there are aliens "out there", but I DO NOT for second believe at least 80% of the UFO Subculture BS out there because time and time again it has been PROVED to be utter BS. My motto is: "Trust the aliens, but NEVER trust in human beings attempting to sell you books about them. They are CHARLATANS and will confuse the F*&$ out of you!" When and if the aliens come, you will KNOW it.

They are already 'on' this planet. You might say we are the visitors and not 'they'

Thank you for posting this. I've been waiting to see a good level headed post like this. I get so tired of seeing all the posts which claim a "ufo" sighting with video/pics. Then they go on and have a verbal orgy for 6 pages, all for a blurry light in a dark sky....

It's ABSURD to assume that "Aliens" from all kinds of worlds would visit here simply because of those numbers and likelihoods - let alone the fact that man is a stupid race and there is no reason WHATSOEVER to come here except to "observe stupidity" on a grand scale.

If we assume (seeing all those galaxies and crazy numbers) that there are indeed many civilizations - there is a likelihood that there are many civilizations out there which would be far, far more worth visiting.

Think of it like this instead, and perhaps you'll see why such visits would not be out of the ordinary.

The universe is expanding. The leading edge expands and develops later than suns closer to the origin of the big bang. So it stands to reason that suns that could harbor life closer to us, may indeed herald life.. but they are just on the cusp of space travel themselves. They may not be all that advanced over us, after all. If we explore, we would almost certainly explore outwards in a pattern that covers the areas closest to our planet first. It would stand to reason other races would do the same.

So it's hardly a reach to think that many species would simply explore this planet because it's in their expanding area of discovery. It may have nothing to do with ulterior motives. Would we set out for suns 10 million light years further away than closer suns that might harbor life? I don't think so.

There may well be other reasons as well, including that life in the universe is actually common as dirt, so it's not a surprise at all that some life forms find out small ball O life.

People have a tendency to think in human terms. People need to try to think a bit outside of the box.

reply to post by Explanation


You ask fair questions and I'll try to give suggestions to what their answers might be.

We, humans, actively look for extraterrestrial life. if we ever found a way to better search for extra terrestrial intelligence we would do everything possible to learn more.

TO go further, if we did, in fact, find a planet with intelligent life, we would investigate it as stealthily as possible. Gather data, living tissue samples, learn of their culture, learn if they are a threat, or if they have lessons to teach us. see if they show a window to our own history or not.

So, if there is life out there, and if it is intelligent, chances are at least some of it is actively looking for other life. I present that hypothesis with the supporting evidence that *we* are a living example of intelligent life and as such it is not unreasonable to assume another life form might try to do something similar, of all assumptions is the only one with supporting evidence.

Whether or not there is life vising us is a good question with a lot of circumstantial evidence to support (imho) further investigation. But the question of *why* would they visit us answers itself with one word: Curiosity. We would do it to them if we could.

As far as methods of finding us, we have been doing a lot of things to turn this planet into a beacon. Besides radio transmission, we have been changing the rate at which the planet actively accumulates heat, we have detonated nuclear weapons, we have most definitely sent out our share of photons and alpha particles out there, not to mention other forms of radiated information we may not yet know about (gravity waves?) so they have to just listen to find us, if they have some curiosity and the means.

Besides that we live in the conditions that create life, obviously, so if they exist in conditions anywhere similar, and they set out to search for life like themselves (and thus like us) they would be doing the same we do with our search for extra solar planets, limit to those planets not too far, not too close, to stars not too big, not too small, etc. and to have a successful finding of life supporting solar systems it is a matter of time and the process accelerates. Imagine us humans 100 years from now, chances are we will at least know of some other life out there that we cannot even visit. Give us another 10000 years and all bets are off on what we might be able to do. Now imagine another civilization with an extra 1000 000 years of experience, what could they do?

-rrr

reply to post by flexy123


I disagree with the view that you share about our stupidity and how aliens "would be too smart to come here"

If we begin with an open mind we have no idea how smart aliens are, or how smart they would have been at a comparable stage in history as us. The only reason they would "not come here because we are stupid" is if they had already studied us long enough to reach some conclusion. So the argument of "we are too stupid for aliens to care" is nonsensical.

-rrr

Originally posted by EmVeeFF
reply to post by bsalert

 

This doesn't mean they are aliens, it just proves that people saw something they cannot explain.

There are ancient reports of dragons, this doesn't make them real.

I have a problem with people taking the word "UFO" literally. To be honest I find it pedantic. I think we need two different words: We need:

UFO, as is, Unidentified, Flying Object and we need another one:

EUFOSNN as in Extraordinary Unidentify Flying Object Seemingly Not Natural.

This would be a sighting of some machine in the sky that defies all known means by which humans build machines and that is definitely neither biological nor weather.

The difference between the two is that the UFO can be a blurry dot on a movie that moves slowly.... and the EUFOSNN is really # in your pants something that makes no sense but is very close and very real looking and definitely "intelligent" and "mechanical"

We HAVE lots of testimony for both, and I will readily dismiss all UFO testimony if it does not go beyond that. But the EUFOSNN as I call it is not to be ignored.

I think we have to stop the pedantic "Well, duh, it is unidentified" because often we are talking about more than unidentified, we are really talking about "can't tell what it is, but surely it is not any of the above and it is "machine like" and behaving in a way that surpises performance characteristics of any known flying machine, such as submersion at supersonic speeds, etc.

-rrr

reply to post by Explanation


May I ask what God this is that you believe in? Could it be the one who descended upon Mount Sinai in his chariot upon fire and flame to the sound of trumpets, and allegedly handed Moses the commandments?

H mm, that sounds like something else was happening, doesn't it?

Anyway, what I am pleased about though is such an ardent skeptic such as yourself has, like seemingly many others as we enter the second decade of the 21st century, at least passed the first hurdle of acceptance; alien life is most definitely out there, yet you disagree on ET visitations.

It seems only a few years ago the staple skeptic refused to even believe this much.


With regard to why any potential super-intelligence transversing the cosmos would ever take any interest in the menial happenings on Terra, I submit that even they will have their own fair share of curios scientific minds, who'd love to take their time studying our civilisations and enjoy the tough challenge of deciphering the weak, dispersed, disembodied voices of our radio transmissions.

If they don't exist, how does that explain the many UFO and alien sightings. Even I have seen things that would prove they exist, I'm not the type of person to believe some random information until I see it. I've seen UFOs move in ways no man-made technology could ever work, I've seen a UFO only about 500ft above and I've spoken to abductees. True, this may all be the governments doing, but why would the government be sticking metal inside our necks?

About all I want to say is: IMO your wrong...... and so they don't say anything about a one liner I didn't write that to be smart....your just simply incorrect.

Originally posted by rickyrrr
I have a problem with people taking the word "UFO" literally. To be honest I find it pedantic. I think we need two different words: We need:

UFO, as is, Unidentified, Flying Object and we need another one:

That's absolutely right... This has been a major issue in the subject for decades. Way too many people equate "UFO" to automatically mean; alien space ship. It does not... It means exactly what it stands for... Unidentified Flying Object. That is basically anything you see flying that you cannot identify for certain. That can be anything.

So when someone says "Hey, I saw a UFO"... That is not 'proof' that aliens are here. It just means somebody saw something that they couldn't identify. And when a document says "UFO", that does not mean it's proof that the government is hiding aliens being here... It means that they are referring to an Unidentified Flying Object... Once again, that could be anything.

So saying... "Look at all the UFO reports". OK, that doesn't prove ONE particular thing or another. It just proves there's reports of people seeing things they could not identify... ie: a UFO. It's like saying that all reports of people seeing animals in the woods, proves there's a Bigfoot. That's way to broad of an assumption.

Originally posted by Explanation

I'll be honest I do believe in God

Stopped reading there.

reply to post by Adon115


Welcome To ATS. For one dont let your first post be a trollish or a smartass one. Enjoy your stay here.

I definately disagree. I believe ET's exist.

I see indicators of their existence everywhere.

1. I see it in how fast we allegedly advanced. In a few hundred thousand years, we supposedly went from a primitive ape to the homo sapien.
2. And then when one looks at our DNA structure, specifically the HAR 1 gene, we see that an ape is closer to a earth worm than and ape is to a homo sapian.
3. I see evidence in our ancient religions, to me one of the most compelling, but also maybe the most foolish
I repeatedly see similar characters with similar events in religions and cultures seperated by thousands of miles of land and water.
4. Constantly I read about out of place artifacts. Artifacts either depicated or requiring technology or knowledge of the universe that would match our own. Stonehedge, Mayan Temple complexes, the pyramids, monoliths. The list goes on and on.

There is more, and I will admit modern accounts of UFO's and Alien sightings/abductions are compelling, but I am more interested in the ancient accounts.

But I am willing to accept there are other explanations.
For instance #1 could just be an example of hyper evolution. It does happen, its rare, and usually only happens under certain circumstances, but maybe we are an exception.
As for #3, maybe most religions are tied somehow. And maybe it has something to do with #4.
#4 could just be a case of technology lost. Maybe these civilizations had advanced technologies but lost them. It could be foolish to assume that advanced technology = aliens.

I believe in aliens I admit, because I want to believe in them. I want to believe there is a reason why we are so screwed up. In a way its easier for to accept we are the emancipated slave race they created, than to accept that evolution caused us to be as greedy, violent, selfish and stupid/ignorant as we are.

I am a pessimist I will admit.

reply to post by FreezingVoid


We advanced quickly "from a primitive ape to the homo sapien" compared to what baseline? How do you know our advancement and evolution was unnaturally fast? Maybe it was completely normal; maybe it was actually slow compared to other intelligent beings.

...and, yes, I think other intelligent ETs exist elsewhere in the universe, but I'm not sure that they have ever visited the Earth.

Interesting... was just looking up the time table for human evolution and it appears different from the last time I saw it...

The last I saw I swear I saw a time table that basically said we went from a Australopithecus like species to the modern homo sapien in 500,000 years, which seemed ridiculous when we are taught it takes millions of years for evolution to occur.

The time table I see now says the same change occurred in about a 3-4 million year time table. Which actually seems quite reasonable.

Mmmm... Where did I see that time table before? Was it a legit time table but a little out dated? Or was it either an outdated or altered time table used to try to try to fool people into believing in aliens.

Originally posted by FreezingVoid
...The time table I see now says the same change occurred in about a 3-4 million year time table. Which actually seems quite reasonable...

Again, "reasonable" compared to what? What would be an "unreasonable" time frame of human evolution, and WHY would you say that time frame is unreasonable?

To what time frame are you comparing human evolution?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I am not a biologist, all I know is 500 thousand years would a bit unreasonable for a species to go from Australopithecus to Modern Homo Sapien, when one compares it to other species that basically have remained very much unchanged over that period of time.
It would a indicator of non-normal evolution. Whether that means hyper evolution, alien intervention or unknown.

However if that same process it is stretched over a 3-4 million year time period it better matches that of other species. It seems less likely any form of non-normal evolution had to take place.

I will admit I have very little knowledge on the subject. I am more or less a person trying to understand the origins of the human species with limited knowledge and vast ignorance on the subject. Forgive me if some things don't make 100% logical sense.

Edit: Possibly non-normal is the wrong word. Maybe non-typical would be better.