What punishment is sufficient for the ones acting in the riots in the UK?

It's a difficult question but whatever happens we must use the laws we already have available to us. We must NOT allow new, potentially Draconian legislation to be passed on the back of people's fears. The government could very well take advantage of this situation to strip us of even more of our liberty purely as a result of the thirst for blood of some of those I would describe as, "less enlightened."

One must look at the punishment options realistically. The vast majority of the looters are men in their mid to late teens. Hence, these individuals will end up in Young Offender's Institutions (YOI). The average cost of holding a young offender has been estimated at between £50,000 - £140,000 per year. Right now, as we watch a 4th night of violence the capacity for young offenders is running at 94%, the safe limit is 93%. There is capacity for 300 (yes three HUNDRED) young offenders at this time. If we pander to the Daily Mail brigade and "bang em' all up" in prison then how do they propose we pay for that? How do they propose we make the spaces available?

It is difficult to ascertain an exact figure for the number of arrests and potential number of charges. Current figures are 768 arrests and 167 charged in London alone but as soon as I post this the number will go up. As I'm sure everyone will agree, that figure will increase substantially.

So, what to do with them all? Well, despite the protestations of some of the more extreme elements of UK society calling for hanging, shooting, birching, the stocks, insert your choice of archaic punishment here, the options are simply not there. We simply cannot afford to build more prisons or create spaces out of thin air. So we must let the punishment fit the crime.

The most serious crimes we have seen in these riots is Reckless Arson and for these people, the sentences required are justifiably long. The aggravating factors are numerous, intentional/reckless, motivation, use of accelerants, extent of damage, risk of fire spreading, dwelling attacked. Sentencing Guidelines maximum penalty, life in prison. Placing myself in the shoes of a sentencing Judge, I would be minded to hand down a life sentence with a minimum tariff of 20 years.

For the rest, it will depend on how the Crown Prosecution Service intends to deal with them. There are two options open with the same maximum penalties. Charge them under the Public Order Act for rioting with a maximum penalty of 10 years or charge the looters with burglary from a buidling other than a dwelling with a maximum penalty of 10 years. The difference is that the sentencing range is different for the pair and the theft/burgalry charge would be more likely to attract a suspended sentence with ancillary community orders.

Be under no illusions, the punishments must be harsh. These were not politically motivated protesters, they were a bunch of thugs completely devoid of any respect for the rule of civility and respect for others. Even though that was bad enough the looters pale in comparison to the individuals that should be the target of our utter contempt and demands for harsh penalties... the arsonists.

Finally, please note I have not delved into the potential causes or motivations for these people, I'm not interested into getting into a socio-economic debate. And tattooing them!? Utterly preposterous! I recall another organisation that tattooed a group of people in the 1940's, let's not even discuss that road.

reply to post by Diyainoue
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8 years in prison for the instigators and make the rest of the little C##T's clean up the mess. By clean up the mess I mean clearing the streets and then fixing up all the ruined businness'. If they are not willing to do so then off to prison it is. That's the punishment for theft and smashing the place up, all those who commited crimes against people and the arsonists should be locked up indefinitely.

london used to have public hangings

bring that back.

or public beatings

or just send them to america

actually send them to america, let them run free.

be free troublemakers be free

This i dumb, yea tattoo them so that they have something to show of about! They would be loving that to show of to their mates! Also then 100% of these people would be unable to get a job giving them yet another excuse to not work when they finally get old enough that they might finally take the plunge, I say get them all together and make them work 12 hours a day like many people do as labourers to re-build the damage, to normal people who have suffered they must help them as free labour in their businesses and face prison if they dont put the effort in. Benefits will be stopped if they refuse.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I agree, bootcamp would fit the bill nicely. A large number of the rioters were young teenagers apparently 15, 16+. so a term in bootcamp ought to have a good effect, still cost us though. And add a tattoo.

Originally posted by clintdelicious
This i dumb, yea tattoo them so that they have something to show of about! They would be loving that to show of to their mates! Also then 100% of these people would be unable to get a job giving them yet another excuse to not work when they finally get old enough that they might finally take the plunge, I say get them all together and make them work 12 hours a day like many people do as labourers to re-build the damage, to normal people who have suffered they must help them as free labour in their businesses and face prison if they dont put the effort in. Benefits will be stopped if they refuse.

Ah, a voice of reason and practical achievable sentences, well done. Restorative Community Justice will be high in the minds of the probation service for those convicted of lesser crimes such as criminal damage, theft, common assault etc. They will make up the bulk of the offenders. Inevitably (and deservedly) a minority of these people will go to prison, some of them for considerable lengths of time.

Watching the riots I recall one young lady in the thick of it saying to the cameras (I'm paraphrasing), "We want respect, you respect us and we'll respect you." Well young lady, that's not how respect works. What you are actually achieving is not respect, but fear. With respect comes one of the greatest gifts one can bestow on another, trust. Fear brings mistrust. It also became obvious by the chosen targets for looting that image is high on the list of priorities for these oiks. So further to that may I be so bold as to add some additional conditions to your well thought out sentencing proposal? Since image seems to be so important let's strip them of that image while working. Bright yellow overalls and steel toe boots with laces completely done up, yellow hard-hats with "CRJ" emblazoned across them. If the public are to feel justice has been done then it must be seen.

reply to post by PW229


I agree. I think a big problem though is people are taking what they are aying seriously, when in fact they are only saying this as a loose justification to steal and rob and get away with it. They dont really believe its for respect or anything like that at all, they just want to seem that they have a just reason because they know that they really are just selfish idiots who want something for nothing.

It has to be restorative justice. These kids need to meet the people who's lives they have wrecked in their own communities. They need to be put to work in their communities, clearing up and repairing the damage they created. . Though the ones who have committed the worst acts of arson and assault need to face the full force of the Law and tough prison sentences. The rest need to be put to work on the streets of London repaying their debt to society.

you peeps do not get it, the protests started over a just cause and were peaceful. Later they spread and became violent. Look at were the protests kicked off, they are the poor areas. The areas were peeps have nothing. Little education, no job prospects, no future and in many cases constant harasment from the police.
If you mix rich and poor peeps together and you have this level of disparity in wealth this is going to happen.
They are kids,kids with little future they can see for themselves.
If you really cared you would do something about it. Become a mentor, or a youth worker. You dont know what this kids go through until you walk a mile in their shoes. Or else we can call them looters and criminals because in doing so we dont have to address these issues...
You dont have a clue... Where were you bought up

And in come the water cannons. Seems like the PM wants to "fight back".

Oh how ignorant of an idiot the UK PM is.

Give them the same punishment that all the mps got when their hands were in the till.

Sadly, I think that the system will hit them harder for a bit of theft and wrecking than if they'd have been caught sharing pics of naked kids.

Looting is a shoot on the spot offence so they should be shot.....dead.

reply to post by purplemer


Sorry but you dont get it, this thread has nothing to do with the protest, its to do with the looting and rioting which has NOTHING to do with the protest except that it hijacked it to take advantage of the situation in order to pillage

Originally posted by Zamini
And in come the water cannons. Seems like the PM wants to "fight back".

Oh how ignorant of an idiot the UK PM is.

"Call Me Dave" is mistaking the public's disgust as support for him and his cronies and he is now riding that wave. Surprised he didn't try to take credit for the Twitter arranged London clean-up.

Rubber bullets and water cannon indeed. The youngest person arrested so far was 11 years old. Rubber bullets are designed for adults, you pop a kid with one of them and you run a completely unacceptable risk of killing them. Imagine the public's response to the Met killing an 11 year old with a rubber bullet?

As for those of you calling for looters to be "shot on sight." Surely there is a Schwarzenegger film you lot could be watching. Perhaps you could stand and beat your chests every time there is an on-screen explosion? Savages.

reply to post by purplemer


I dont like this argument, with hard work alone you can still achieve great things with no qualifications. Also a lot of these areas bring in more money than I survive on, the housing benefit that people recieve alone is outrageouslt#y high in many cases. But because I have a job on £7 an hour I get nothing and a month to waitfor your first pay cheque is a long time! Many of these people on disabilty in these areas who mug of the system and milk it dry get more money than I do for doing literally nothing. But if my gf got pregnant would I get any money for my children? Erm no I wouldnt because I work! These people arnt all as poor as you think they are a % of them are yes but a lot of them are just normal working class people who CAN have a future but they just want to get some free stuff n have a laugh for now.

reply to post by Viking9019


That's exactly why racists such as yourself will NEVER hold any important positions of authority in the future.

You're advocating shooting people(murder). Why? Because the majority of them are not Caucasians.

But no problem mod, just let YET ANOTHER comment soaked in racist ideology stand. It's what you do best.

reply to post by clintdelicious

Sorry but you dont get it, this thread has nothing to do with the protest, its to do with the looting and rioting which has NOTHING to do with the protest except that it hijacked it to take advantage of the situation in order to pillage

The looting and rioting is part of the protest. You are not understanding this nor is it being reported correctly. This is the voice of socially disassociated youth. It is their moment of political empoverment, their moment to be the centre of attention..
A couple of months ago 2000 blacks marched to downing street. It never even made the news, If this is what it takes to be heard, this is what is takes....

Originally posted by clintdelicious
reply to post by purplemer

 

I dont like this argument, with hard work alone you can still achieve great things with no qualifications. Also a lot of these areas bring in more money than I survive on, the housing benefit that people recieve alone is outrageouslt#y high in many cases. But because I have a job on £7 an hour I get nothing and a month to waitfor your first pay cheque is a long time! Many of these people on disabilty in these areas who mug of the system and milk it dry get more money than I do for doing literally nothing. But if my gf got pregnant would I get any money for my children? Erm no I wouldnt because I work! These people arnt all as poor as you think they are a % of them are yes but a lot of them are just normal working class people who CAN have a future but they just want to get some free stuff n have a laugh for now.

say you that can sit here and construct a paragraph in perfect English. I have lived in some of the areas affected. I have been in the schools and seen a lot of kids that cant even construct a sentence. When the walk out the doors and out onto the street the get constant harrasment for the colour of their skin..
Opinion is cheap> As i said if you care do something about it, dont form high and mighty opinions from what you see on tv...

Originally posted by JustinSee
I haven't been here in a bit, but are you people here blaming the people for the riots? Nobody should be punished as it is a response to rule.

Rubbish..

These riots are simply a response to one of their own being caught in possesion with a gun and not having the good sense to put it down when challenged by CO19.
Then they getb their knickers in a twist over it, make some BS claims about Police brutality and then burn down their neighbourhood looking for "free stuff".

When interviewed, these rioters haven't got a clue who is in charge of the country, why they are so upset, why it is the "rich folks" fault (the reasoning behing targetting the local businessness) and have barely enough brain power to assemble a full sentence without the word "blood" or "sick" in it.

In short, these are the bottom end of society upset about the fact that because everything isn't being handed to them or that they aren't all pop stars, then they have the right to go and take it and act as they please.

These aren't protests, just massive criminality.

Originally posted by Viking9019
Looting is a shoot on the spot offence so they should be shot.....dead.

Does that also include the bankers that have looted the countries of trillions, or the politicans that have aided them...
Do you really value property above human life and tell me if you have such a harsh punishment for looters what would you do with murdered.. ie the police officer that shot dead a man who was not threat that kick started the protests..