The biggest religious movement you never heard of

reply to post by Misoir


Fear mongering and scaring people with Wikipedia links, I don't see why anyone responded. You make claims that are not corroborated just slandering Republicans and some made-up invention of what you think or someone thinks they think.

I have never heard Bachmann or Palin say anything like the tripe in your off site quotes. I do find it interesting that everything that is said about a God driven law is EXACTLY WHAT EVERY FOUNDING FATHER WROTE!

Funny how fast we like to slander things we don't like but are the very things that give you the Rights to feel or act as you want when religion is concerned.

T. Jefferson - "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."

John Hancock - "Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."

William Penn - "Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by Tyrants"

Ben Franklin - "Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants."

Patrick Henry - "It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."

So let's have the OP say what he means, which is he prefers servitude to tyrants than the freedom of the laws of Nature and that which came from our Creator.

Isn't it so easy to bash people today with one's own bias and BS. I have to wonder if the OP feels that our Rights come from government than he must agree that the government can take those Rights as they granted them. But in a world where GOD Given Unalienable Rights are there is freedom...

reply to post by seeker11


Yea that's messed up. Sounds like most of "gods laws" were made up by egomaniaical men.

I don't even know what to say. Example. Say there is a star wars nerd and a star trek nerd. Bo like the same thing, outer space, but will argue over dumb stuff.

Like "we go light speed, nothing can go faster" oh uea we have a hyper drive, it goes faster!! Then they argue and argue some more. Over different concepts and ideas.

So in the time men were supreme and women supressed it comes as no suprise to me that the rules favored for men (example god being a he)

So we shouldn't take this for word, the bible and all other religious texts are sexist, to the extreme. Child abuse, murder and god says its ok because men think it's ok.



So don't take the bible for anything

These are GOD's real laws. Do not worship false idols (don't worship celebrities)
Don't take gods name in vain (don't kill people in the name of your god, admit to your insanity)
Respect your parents, (you don't have to like them, just respect them they made you, say thanks for it)
Don't steal #. (unless it's bread and water to feed your family)
Don't kill (murder is wrong, control your emotions and if not submit to the police)
Don't cheat on someone you love (that's what adultery means)
Don't have desires to pork your buddies gf or wife (bf or husband)
Don't plan to take your buddies things (ei pretending to be a friend to get their stuff)
Don't lay false witness (tell the truth and only the truth, lying will get you into more lying until the web is spun and your all alone)

Finally don't over work yourself, take a break every now and then, being a workaolic takes its told on your life and family.


All of these together as the Summarians word of law. "if it hurts somebody then don't do it"


As if you people even need these rules, you should just automatiicsly know

@Seeker11

The correct answer would be to follow Christ's teachings. God created a second covenant with man by sending us Yeshua, his teachings are what you should follow. To "let him amoung you who has no sin, cast the first stone", to "love your enemies, not just your loved ones and friends". His message was one of peace and love, for YOU as a person to obey God as what petains to YOUR life, because you are not held accountable by what someone else does, only what you do. In the end he will judge yours and everyone else' actions and beliefs. Christ said "i have come, not to do away with the old law (old testament) but to fulfill it", and so he did by fulfilling 493 years worth of prophecies out of 500 (last 7 years in Revelations). In short, you should mind your own household.

Keep in mind that Yeshua was God in the flesh, and that by being so he had access to vast stores of knowledge. God knows all about science, atoms, molecules, DNA,gravity EVERYTHING. So when he would say something it was because he had a reason for it. He knew all about bloodborne pathogens and diseases, how they worked and how to protect against these things and how they spread. When you read the Bible you have to keep that in mind, that he has REASONS for telling you not to do something. Think of Him like a parent trying to teach his children right, and to keep them from doing something that would harm them. No parent ever wants to see harm come to their children and neither does He, so when he would tell you NOT to do something or TO do it, he did it for a reason. In ancient times they didnt have comdoms, and syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases ran rampant, hence his warning about adultery and promiscuous sex. He KNEW about all these things, and he warned us using the terms and technology of the ancestors times in the way that THEY could understand.

Its not up to us to say if God's laws are "just" or "unjust". He is the maker, its not for us to ask him why he commands this or that. It may be an answer that doesnt satisfy you, but its the way it is. We are to trust in him that he knows best, because he does. He even tells us "its rains on the just and unjust alike". It is true that these words do not come from his mouth, but written by men INSPIRED by him, which in those days was given as a vision or a dream from him where he spoke to them in their vision or dream. This is where faith comes into play.

reply to post by Misoir


As an atheist and anti-theist I've seen the signs of this for a while though I'd never viewed it as this serious or this deep of a conspiracy. As much as I try not to read too much into things there definitely seem to be plenty of religious influences creeping deeper and deeper into bed with our government. It's no wonder why every time the Separation of Church and State is brought up many Republicans deny that such a thing even exists as though the lack of that exact phrase in the Constitution somehow means it's okay for religion and government to ally themselves.

And in the meantime atheist organizations waste themselves on frivolous fights like this instead of helping defend the real enemies of our constitution: Atheist Group Files Lawsuit I posted Fox News because I know they like to bash atheists, but in this case this atheist group DESERVES bashing.

Originally posted by Misoir
All of the first 3 replies to my thread are completely irrelevant to the discussion. One says ##snip## another is talking about how the Taliban is not religious movement and the third says "when christians behead someone let me know".

Did any of you even bother to read my OP?

edit on Sat Aug 6 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: edit, quote from post removed by staff

You edited some of your original post. I should have quoted you, but I guess I fell short of that mark.

reply to post by theRhenn


Of course he did, so many do and pretend they didn't.

"no I didn't edit, I don't make errors dur, everyone listen because I know the....(wait for it)....TRUTH!!!!!"


Like everyone else

reply to post by Misoir


Read it - very interesting. I had heard of this movement back around the time of the 2008 election, I believe, or shortly thereafter. I remember this video:

As to the third poster, I would say "be careful what you wish for". There is no doubt in my mind that it would be just as easy to justify beheadings through one good bock over another.

The problem with faith-based reasoning is that you cannot argue against it. It doesn't have to be religious, false ideologies, pseudo-science, theocracy, propaganda....it doesn't matter. Once a person is swept up, it is hard to show them facts, even if you have a list a mile long, that contradict their belief system - they will still believe it. I think with religious movements it is especially difficult, because most of the time they base their authority on something that can be neither proven nor disproven - essentially, becoming groupthink or collective subjectivity. I know I'm right because I believe it to be so (would be the mantra here).

reply to post by theindependentjournal


I think that's a bit of a stretch. I don't think the founding fathers were the kind of Christians within these evangelical movements - no where near to it. Also, they were not exactly flawless Christians either (drinking, adultery, etc.).

But that is besides the point. The context driving their religious speech is not the same as what we see today. They were talking "liberation theology"...God (the creator, the universe, etc.) gave us the freedom of nature, the freedom of a living being - and while freedom bestows "happiness" upon you, the idea of happiness is not a latte, an iPhone, a nice car or other worldly possessions. Happiness is balance. As such, it also means that you have to accept the bad when the bad happens.

I don't see the modern evangelical movement being rational, because rather than finding their peace and joy with God (in the universe, in creation), they are fear-mongering end-timers, all is doom and gloom.

In fact, in that way, they are actually the antithesis of those that see happiness (through empire's trappings: ie, iphones, hummers and frappuccinos) only and do not consider the suffering caused around the globe by it. The evangelicals see the suffering and the pornography and the drugs and the crime and "know" that the end is near.

Neither way of looking at the world is correct, because both are out of balance.

The world is not on some linear path. The end may be near for humans (or not) but it is not near for the universe as a whole. The evangelicals are egocentric: humanity in God's creation is the epitome.

Oddly enough, in the video the preacher likened Buddhism to witchcraft when Buddhism is about taking the good with the bad. I think Christianity is, too. But for whatever reason its modern form has taken a negative, apocalyptic worldview.

reply to post by Misoir


I am very much concerned over the NAR, and have been following their movements for quite some time. If you all will remember, this is the exact way the roman catholic church started up.... and we all know how well the dark ages turned out!

Christians have no business mingling in the affairs of the world. That is what got Billy Graham so screwed up, and now he is nothing more than a liberal apostate.

Christians are to be in the world, not of the world.

What really caught my eye about this post is that the ceremony these people wanted to do took place in a town -Olney, Texas - that is literally 25 minutes from me! It really shocked me that this type of element is close to me because I consider my self a spiritual person who does not interfere on another persons beliefs. I hope I never run into any of these people they don't sound like they have anybody's best interest at heart.

reply to post by Misoir

So... What do you suggest?

As someone who is a Christian, without a religious sect, I already knew controversial groups existed.

Would it help if Christians wore armbands? Something that will warn everyone that they were Christian?

Would that help?

Maybe we can repeat history. We all know what happened then.

Even though your post is a general warning, the reality is that you are a hundred plus years too late. Many of these controversial groups get busted, and then they fade away with the passing of time.

You are not showing us anything in which we did not know.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Once we arrive at that point, I fear that it shall be too late.

Hmmm... How about you? What do you suggest?

Do you want to see what happens when people discriminate against religious groups?

Very Graphic: Click Here For Your Answer

What do you say to those innocent Jewish people?

Do you folks suggest that the government should do the same thing to Christians just in case they attack?

Outside of trying to warn everyone about a controversial group infiltrating Christianity, which has been done a billion times, what are you folks actually proposing?

Regardless about what religion this topic is about, the main reason why its open is to inject fear, anger, and hate. I don't care if this topic was about Christians, Jewish, Buddhists, or Islams.

Stop spreading fear, and start spreading tolerance!

(I know this post may be deleted, but I will take the consequences that may follow. I am sick and tired of all the intolerance.)

I will never understand how the Republicans don't want Big Government.
But they are prepared to bring about Big Religion.
Kinda doesn't make sense to me.
And yes i am a Christian.

Thanks for posting this Misoir. People very much need to hear about these issues.

Originally posted by shtf2012
I will never understand how the Republicans don't want Big Government.
But they are prepared to bring about Big Religion.
Kinda doesn't make sense to me.
And yes i am a Christian.

edit on 7-8-2011 by shtf2012 because: edit bug

Don't forget big-business too.

To all those attacking me for my OP

How do you come to the conclusion that I am against Republicans or am anti-Christian in some way? It is my Christian beliefs that drove me to post this! These people are not Christian, anyone can call themselves Christian or Muslim or Jewish, that does not make them one. What the people at NAR and the ones who are begging for their support are doing is against the Christian doctrines. Nowhere does it order man to go out and fight demons wherever they lay, it clearly stated that is for our Lord to do so what does NAR do? They take it upon themselves to be God, which is unacceptable.

False prophets they are and that is a key point of me making this thread, they worry me much more than the “Moral Majority” and the Jerry Falwell types for the simple fact that they are advocating actions which would make them God. There is crazy Christian fundamentalist and there is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, which is what these people are. I worry because false prophets hijacking our country are not going to benefit the religious or the secular.

So you can stop with the attacks against me like I am putting down religion because I am not. In fact it is the opposite.

Originally posted by Misoir
To all those attacking me for my OP

How do you come to the conclusion that I am against Republicans or am anti-Christian in some way? It is my Christian beliefs that drove me to post this! These people are not Christian, anyone can call themselves Christian or Muslim or Jewish, that does not make them one. What the people at NAR and the ones who are begging for their support are doing is against the Christian doctrines. Nowhere does it order man to go out and fight demons wherever they lay, it clearly stated that is for our Lord to do so what does NAR do? They take it upon themselves to be God, which is unacceptable.

False prophets they are and that is a key point of me making this thread, they worry me much more than the “Moral Majority” and the Jerry Falwell types for the simple fact that they are advocating actions which would make them God. There is crazy Christian fundamentalist and there is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, which is what these people are. I worry because false prophets hijacking our country are not going to benefit the religious or the secular.

So you can stop with the attacks against me like I am putting down religion because I am not. In fact it is the opposite.

Misoir, remember:


"You can tell people the truth, but they'll never believe you until the event. Until it's too late. In the meantime, the truth will just piss them off and get you in a lot of trouble."
- Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Misoir

 

Fear mongering and scaring people with Wikipedia links, I don't see why anyone responded. You make claims that are not corroborated just slandering Republicans and some made-up invention of what you think or someone thinks they think.

Yes, what is this theory that involves a conspiracy doing on a cospiracy theory website anyhow?!

oh..wait...


Actually, which part are you having issue with?

reply to post by Misoir


M.
Becoming aware of dominion ism opens up a whole new world of understanding in our comprehension of world affairs doesn't it? These folk have been around for quite a while now and one thing is for sure, they ain't your grandma's Christians.

If you are interested, and no one else has turned you on to this aspect of the picture, try this book The Family by Jeff Sharlet

Here is a short bit on it.

“The Family’s long-term
project of a worldwide government under
God is more ambitious than Al Qaeda’s
dream of a Sunni empire” (57).
American piety’s most important roots
are in Jonathan Edwards [1703-1758],
“the author of the Great Awakening,” in
which Christ is “a feeling, a conviction, a
sentimental commitment to manifest
destiny on a personal level, with national
implications” (59; 60; 58-61). “[T]he
Family began [in 1935] as a
businessmen’s antilabor alliance in
Seattle,” but its origins ultimately lie in
“the dream of a Christian nation”

This group is located in DC and serves as a spearhead for domionist political action influencing Repubs and Dems alike. Should you want to increase your understanding of the breadth of this movement, this book would prove worthy of your time.

AND leave us not forget the Moonies, The Unification Church of South Korean Sun Myung Moon. This "messiah" has a hidden kingdom all over the world and promotes and funds conservative movements all around. His relationship with the Bush family is not one to be ignored. Nor is his ownership of the" Washington Times" and other newspapers around the world. Here is a website which only shows the tip of the iceberg

Originally posted by Misoir
To all those attacking me for my OP

How do you come to the conclusion that I am against Republicans or am anti-Christian in some way?

Surely you know the 11th commandment that was made popular by Reagen..
"Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."

Basically, any republican is not allowed to say anything negative about any republican..and since you did speak bad about some, even though it may be true, it doesn't matter.

For a better understanding of the 11th commandment, see the catholic church and sex abuse...even a pope will not turn in a priest for touching kids...because it puts a stain on the institution...its not about being a good organization, its about being a unified organization.

Now, if you are a republican, then just shut up and lets usher in the extreme right wing theocracy...I mean, who cares about native american artifacts anyhow, Jesus will be coming back in Cleveland!

Originally posted by Misoir
To all those attacking me for my OP

How do you come to the conclusion that I am against Republicans or am anti-Christian in some way? It is my Christian beliefs that drove me to post this! These people are not Christian, anyone can call themselves Christian or Muslim or Jewish, that does not make them one. What the people at NAR and the ones who are begging for their support are doing is against the Christian doctrines. Nowhere does it order man to go out and fight demons wherever they lay, it clearly stated that is for our Lord to do so what does NAR do? They take it upon themselves to be God, which is unacceptable.

False prophets they are and that is a key point of me making this thread, they worry me much more than the “Moral Majority” and the Jerry Falwell types for the simple fact that they are advocating actions which would make them God. There is crazy Christian fundamentalist and there is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, which is what these people are. I worry because false prophets hijacking our country are not going to benefit the religious or the secular.

So you can stop with the attacks against me like I am putting down religion because I am not. In fact it is the opposite.

After going back over the entire first page, you never once said you were a Christian.

Click for My Response

Sorry for slightly repeating my original response, but you might be misunderstanding what I posted.

You are not showing us anything, which we do not already know. Throughout Christianity's entire longevity, the religion has been continuously under attack. Christianity's greatest enemy has always been fake Christians. Its not a new concept. Many of these fake Christians want wealth, influence, and other forms of power. Jim Jones and The Jonestown Massacre, Hitler, Benny Hinn, etc... As a result of the Catholic Church's split in the 14th and 15th century, unaffiliated subgroups have been spawning up everywhere. Actions taken by Martin Luther and Catholicism are both to blame for the division. Since that period in the Church's history, the unregulated subgroups have been eating each other for power. Many of these smaller groups exploit their flock, so they can build a bigger pot to thieve from.

If you are a Christian as you say you are, you would have know about your own faith's history. Your thread begs me to question... Since 'you know' this site has a massive atheist and anti-religious following, what was your real intent for opening this thread?

What is your agenda? To get more people mad at Christianity?