The biggest religious movement you never heard of

reply to post by Misoir


Well op these particular nutters do gather together, like birds of a feather.

And they do like power and so they go were all powers gathers and are attracted by the power on the capital hill. So let them come, the more the merrier, come one, come all, let all the flees and flies gather, it will be easier to clean this dog and drown all the flees when there all gathered all in one place. Then when there all over the place.

Yay more religious nuts who don't have a clue what god is. If you build it, they will come it's said and sure enough they are coming.

The things is there seven mountains are just ant hills.

What op, are you surprised that those who seek power are attracted to the levers of power, and so they go to the hills of power, mainly the hill made of capital.

Here is my prediction of what will happen to them all if they dont get with the program. maybe you all heard of it from somewhere.

"And Shepherds we shall be

For thee, my Lord, for thee.

Power hath descended forth from Thy hand

Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.

So we shall flow a river forth to Thee

And teeming with souls shall it ever be."

These people are so clueless its just bizarre to watch, But since this is getting old, they so do want want to be with there god, I think we should oblige them. If they want to be sheep let them have the same end as all other sheep. The slaughter house, or the shears, it's there choice. It has been done before and if there not careful it will be done again.

Originally posted by theRhenn
When you see Christians beheading someone else for non belief today, let me know...

The point of the OP is that these people are TRYING to get into power. They WANT to go to 100% Bible Law - and in case you need to be reminded, the Bible isn't exactly all unicorns, rainbows, and candy, my friend.

Your attitude is to not be notified about something until AFTER it has occurred.

That didn't work out so well for the Jews in WW2 now, did it?

This "movement" is fringe at best. The old style Catholic goverment system co-opted parts of the protestant wing of Christendom. Its nothing "new". The seven mountains of influence is nothing new either. Actually every world view religion or group or subgroup does the exact same thing with typically equal or more sinister ends.

The fact that you have to dig to find this stuff just goes to show that the New Apostolic Reformation is about as likely to take over as the Voodoo practitioners or druids. This is also really old news and CHRISTIANS are on the forefront of this battle. They were taking care of these loons for a long time now.

Continue to blow out of proportion and pretend that only the anti-god crowd can tackle these usurpers.

Rick perry is a tool Im sure we can all agree.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Christ will return wether or not they turn the U.S. into a theocracy, but in order for THAT to happen, the Anti-Christ must hit the scene (i believe he already has), all people will love him (so he is NOT Obama, as some believe), and he shall decieve even the smartest of us.

There was only one Christ and he died on the cross. And pretty much anybody who does not follow Jesus's path to there degree is an anti Christ. And so pretty much all who came after Jesus are the anti-Christ.

What are these people looking for some sort of special and in some sort of power nutter version of themselves, because the things you look for eventually you will find them. And all prophecies are self fulfilling prophecies, it is the nature of this existence to give you what you want, but not always like you thought you wanted.

That's all this is, its some sort of weird self fulfilled prophecy, so seek and you shall find. If they want and look for this so called anti-christ they shall find him, but if they do not look. Then all they have to do is look inward and they shall still find this anti-christ.

Everybody sees what they want to see, and what they want to see to certain degrees effects there reality. So to all you religious nutters out there, you better start seeing something better.

reply to post by SiKFury

New Apostolic Reformation is about as likely to take over as the Voodoo practitioners or druids.

I agree, wouldn't waste my time worrying about them, but, we can only wait and see.

I guess one would have to believe in Biblical prophecy, and god, and that prayer has power.

hmmmmmm?

Consequently, the NAR is also openly dedicated to destroying religious and cultural groups who do not share their beliefs - even including others on the Christian Right. They openly denounce Mormonism and Roman Catholicism as demonic, but in the end all Protestant denominations are seen as impediments to creating one unified religious establishment which should in turn control all of society, entirely replacing America's secular democracy, and bringing about their own version of "one-world government".

So right after these "NARers take out Scientology, step in and take out the NARers.

Anyways great thread, I never knew the NARers were among us. I must have my head in a hole.

Maybe some of you fellow ATSers will fight by my side in the future to "Spiritual War" with these crazies in a couple of decades.

Edit to add. Will bible thumping brainwashed hoards of NARers be any different from the sterotypical discriptions from ZOMBIES and the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE ?

Originally posted by Misoir
By this point I realized this group’s ideas had already gone beyond that of the ordinary Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christianity many of us have known for decades now. They want “spiritual warfare” for control over the institutions which govern society? That sounds theocratic in nature.

You should check out the book The Family. It's a book that discusses how a large group of conservatives and some liberals belong to a semi-secret religious order that is a front for pro-state sponsored church policy-making and fundraising. They believe that Jesus' teachings were not infact about helping the poor, sick, etc., but rather how to dominate them. It's an "open" conspiracy.

It sounds like it laid the foundation for this "religion" you speak of.

reply to post by Misoir


One more piece of the puzzle comes into view.

Religion has always been an affective method of motivating and justifing the wrong kinds of people.

So I'm not really surprised this is happening.

We'll soon see the real enemy's face in broad day light. Just wait.

reply to post by Misoir


Great research again.

IMO John McCain probably had no real understanding of the fundamentalist religious movement that his political party had taken into its tent decades before, in order to help grow its dwindling base. McCain represents not the new religious-political politician but the old fashioned, intellectually honest, pragmatic politician; he is the ghost of GOP past.

I believe having NAR Hagee as his "spiritual director" was ok, until it wasn't in the mind of voters; so he cast him aside for political expediency. And I bet he was told that Palin would make a great pick because she would appeal to the GOP base, and he believed it, again for political expediency.

From personal observation over the years...

The impact of electing Catholic Democrat JFK was similar to electing biracial Obama. But a 1960s Catholic church was in an age of ecumenism. To consolidate around a conservative base by the late 1970s, for a 1980 GOP victory, a conservative religious/cultural leg was added to the stool, but this meant alignment with Southern conservative churches and conservative Catholics.

When Reagan conducted his "low intensity conflicts" in Central America, it became very handy to have the charismatic conservative missions there to support the efforts. Likewise, in Africa, Asia, Middle Eat and South America, conservative old time religion would rally the populace to align with conservative military or diplomatic intentions in those areas. And political patronage would later be paid with George W. Bush's faith based policies.

(I can remember seeing on tv around early 2006, End Times specialist Dr. Michael D. Evans, who was being promoted as a Middle East specialist, to help rally the populace to stay with the Iraq war efforts. Remember Condi Rice and the 2003 talking point, the road to Jerusalem runs through Baghdad? Now, if that wasn't red meat to the religious base!)

What is interesting is the support some NAR leaders are giving to Glenn Beck and the Tea Party movement...

The open schmoozing between the Tea Party and the New Apostolic Reformation "apostles" and "prophets" has continued unabated throughout the summer. But things have escalated with the entry of Glenn Beck, an influential Mormon, into the eclectic Tea Party/NAR mixture, especially with his "Divine Destiny" event tonight and his "Restore Honor" event tomorrow at the Lincoln Memorial. Everything suddenly seemed to switch gears from a purely Tea Party political event to a NAR-styled spiritual event. Note Beck's description:

I think this is an opportunity to gather God's people together and wake people up. And I just have this feeling that this is the beginning of something gigantic in this country, that it is spiritual awakening....

source

A family member who attended a Beck 4th of July rally this summer, came away captivated by and captive of his speech. From what she said, it sounded like a patriotic, political rally from a church pulpit. If he told her to vote a certain way to save the country, no doubt she would.

Rick Warren also is ecumenical with the NAR.

On Sunday, April 17, 2005 Speaking before 30,000 at Angel Stadium in Anaheim, Rick Warren announced his plan: “The bottom line is that we intend to reinvent mission strategy in the 21st century. As I stated, this will be a new Reformation. The First Reformation returned us to the message of the original church. It was a reformation of doctrine – what the church BELIEVES. This Second Reformation will return us to the mission of the original church. It will be a reformation of PURPOSE – what the church DOES in the world."

“Our goal will be to enlist one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God, who will permanently change the face of international missions to take on these five ‘global giants’ for which the church can become the ultimate distribution and change agent to overcome Spiritual emptiness, Self-serving Leadership, Poverty, disease and ignorance (or illiteracy).”

source

What is interesting in the recent decades tent revivalism is the blend of religion speech with business (ex. downline, global giants, distribution, agent) and military (soldiers).

And how 'bout the Moonies teaming up with NAR...

Comment from ETPW moderator:

The ‘Moonies’ allegedly have many more outlets and fronts than are at first apparent, and are involved a lot with the Christian ‘religious right’ and political lobby groups focusing on family values. Moon also owns ‘The Washington Post’ newspaper.

There are also some proven links between long-term Moon supporters (disguised as ‘Christians’ and denying their Moon connections) teaming up with some in the New Apostolic Reformation, which is VERY telling.

I can’t comment on all Unificationists and their ethics and behaviour, and I also cannot say if the following behaviour has been sanctioned by their ‘church’ either. Or by ‘higher up’ in the NAR. But there are some Unificationists and some NARzies whose behaviour has been particularly abhorrent (not to mention hypocritical and criminal) – they have been lying, smearing and harassing incessantly their opposers – Miriam being one of them. One former Moonie alleges that these are typical tactics that he was taught and then employed against Moon opposers while he was working within the group – constant harassment and smear. Many more ex Moonies (and also alleged Moonie victims) feel they cannot talk openly given how (allegedly) dirty and dangerous it gets for them and any others drawn into it.

So there are some known Moonie associations with the NARzies. And also more overt associations between the NARzies and Roman Catholic church and also with the emergent stream. All together, does that make one big happy one world family? Or does this ungodly lot just combine resources to silence, harass and discredit their critics? How ‘spiritual’, if so!

Revd. Moon, you’re not the Messiah. You’re just a very naughty boy!

source

Note to correct error in above quote ....should read Washington Times not Post

Originally posted by Partygirl
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Good post, thanks. Have you studied pre-tribulation versus post-tribulation rapture ideas? Because there are compelling biblical arguments for both and I've never been able to "pick" correctly. These days I am leaning to post-trib rapture tho.

I don't think God will let believers escape the tribulation, not the first part of it, because Revelations says "They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads". Meaning unless you were saved, these locusts "They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man" Rev. 9:5. and "The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces". So, in effect believers will still be here, it will not be until God begins to exact his final wrath on mankind that the "Rapture" will happen, even though there is no mention of the word "Rapture", rapture means to "be caught up" or "called up" as it were.

Alot of believers have the misconception that they will escape the tribulation, this is a false assumption. Christ will not even return until after the tribulation, and true believers will be rounded up and tortured and tormented, and martyred for refusing to take the Beast's mark. So in effect, christians will be murdered as an example of what happens to those who refuse to obey him. It wont be until the eve of armageddon in which believers will be reclaimed by Yeshua, those who died go first, following those still living, who will be transformed, and then the armies of God with Yeshua (Jesus) at the head will destroy the Beast and the enemies of God, and Satan/Shai'tan (who was Lucifer) will be thrown into the abyss for 1,000 years.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Rick Perry is a nutcase. It's so disturbing that these people rather gather around each other and "pray" to a mythological being instead of actually doing something productive to change their country if they dislike it so much.

Well, I don't know about you, but the less "productive" these folks stay, the better, as far as I am concerned.

I don't particularly care what they do as long as they aren't meddling in the wider reality.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Rick Perry is a nutcase. It's so disturbing that these people rather gather around each other and "pray" to a mythological being instead of actually doing something productive to change their country if they dislike it so much.

Perry can go f himself all I care, and so can his insane followers.

'

You are entitled to your opinion. There is no proof God doesn't exist. When you get down to the meat of the issue, there will always be those who do not believe and those who do. The difference between those who DO believe and those who do not is WE have HOPE. Those who have no hope, live for nothing except themselves and thats why our nation has taken the turn that it has. You can live your life in a shell of disbelief, serving only yourself and your own ambitions. In the end on your deathbed, facing the unkown you will cry out to God in fear of the oblivion and non existance you think awaits you. I have seen MANY an atheist quail in fear and beg God to save them before they take their last breath and die.

What harm can come of believing and having hope in Yeshua? It is better to have hope and live to serve and love others, than it is to serve your own selfish ends. Do you think all those people with their billions and trillions of dollars in their bank accounts that own the whole world are happy? I can assure you they are not. Yeshua said "what gain is there in a man who owns the world but loses his immortal soul?" (paraphrase).

A true Christian would not jockey for power, that was never Yeshua's way. He had all the power of the universe at his command, could've called 12 legions of angels to free him from the cross and destroy all of mankind in the process, yet he did not. THAT is the power of love, that he could carry your sin and restore your link to God, that had been severed up until he drew his last breath.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Those who have no hope, live for nothing except themselves and thats why our nation has taken the turn that it has. You can live your life in a shell of disbelief, serving only yourself and your own ambitions. In the end on your deathbed, facing the unkown you will cry out to God in fear of the oblivion and non existance you think awaits you. I have seen MANY an atheist quail in fear and beg God to save them before they take their last breath and die.

So because I don't believe in Jesus then I automatically I am a selfish and destructive person living to serve my own ambitions? Please open your eyes! This is NOT true, and a very grave misconception of the rest of your fellow human beings who do not believe what you do. All this type of thinking does is serve to separate and divide an already hurting race of people who need to be united in their desire for the betterment of all of mankind. This type of silly judgement is simply counter productive to the greater good.

As for crying out in fear on my deathbed to a god I think might exist, no, I take responsibility, I face my fears, and I choose not to bow down to some god I've never met and cower in fear JUST IN CASE hell might be real. Because, let's face it, if the threat of hell fire wasn't hanging over our heads, I doubt many christians would be christians at all.

What harm can come of believing and having hope in Yeshua? It is better to have hope and live to serve and love others, than it is to serve your own selfish ends.

Once again, I can have hope and live to serve others without believing in Jesus. Much harm can come from such blind faith, especially when it's attached to the kind of judgements and preconceptions you're throwing around about non believers.

reply to post by Misoir


Do you even bother to notice how much hate there is in that message? I assume it was not directly applied by you but to say Muslims and buddists are witchcraft then wtf is Christianity? PAGANISM. worshipping a damn moon god, who's practicing witchcraft? Billions of people and they don't even know it.

Religions are just retarded.

reply to post by seeker11


That's what I mean!! To say anyone who isn't Christian is evil, is like saying hitler is a Jew but he's allowed to kill his people cause they are Jews to. That makes itm okay (mockery)

So wtf you paganist, if god is infinite he can be a he or a she. Have many names and many forms of contact. To say there is only one path is just as logical as saying "schizophrenia isn't bad, it's a superpower" that's how logical this thread is at the moment.

The fact you delete anyone else's comment that don't directly agree with yours, says you are narrow minded.
The fact I didn't read the entire post, says I'm inpatient. I skimmed through it pretty quick though.

Jesus is Allah, Allah is Vishnu, Vishnu is Yahweh. As the Hindus say their god can take many forms, and all everyone fights about is the name of their god"your god has a different name you must die"

Like serious wtf?

This is why I'm not religious too much bs. They are medieval tools of indoctrination, used by old and modern government to influence it's people to do their bidding. When any holy war was made, the soldiers didn't benefit only their leaders.

Originally posted by theRhenn
When you see Christians beheading someone else for non belief today, let me know...

Because it has to get that bad before you respond to the attempts of the Christian right to steal our liberties?

Oh ok...

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
This is some dangerous mixing of religion and politics, very much like the old Moral Majority and Pat Robertsons' Christian Coalition and Heritage Foundation (which has become a fixture for neocon political incubation). The whole movement (Dominionist) has been around well over 30 years now and frankly, Im not real worried about them. They're playing to a very small audience with what they preach and it could never be mainstreamed unless the world goes absolutely insane, then anything goes - especially religion. It's what we turn to besides Smith and Wesson when the SHTF.

It is nice to read that point of view. The OP was very well done as well.

I am not much on conspiracy theories, but in this case I smell a rat. I do not mix politics with religion; but most seem to.

I had moved to a new city and was trying to find a non-political Church during the mid-term elections. About two minutes into a sermon at one Church, I quietly stood up, slipped out the pew and out the door. It was a wholly political message. I got in my car and drove to another nearby Church and slipped in just as that sermon was beginning. It was, word-for-word, the exact same "sermon." WORD-FOR-WORD.

I was outraged. Obviously it was a major political party behind the "message." In that case, that part was the Democrat party. But wait!

I went to a third Church the following Sunday. It was a mega-Church, and sat there trying to reconcile what the preacher was saying with the faith I had been steeped in since my youth-- studied at a graduate level and teach. It was irreconcilable. Obviously politically oriented, and this time, obviously Republican, it was about God gracing hard work and rewarding the faithful with wealth and power. It was also about God punishing the slothful. I thought, "It is easier for a camel to enter through the eye of a needle than rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." I thought, "Blessed are the poor."

The next week, as I fixed my morning coffee, I turned on the TV and flipped through several televised sermons. I believe it was five sermons-- all about wealth as a sign of God's favor. Democrat or Republican, the politicized version of Christianity in North America is about wealth, therefore about economics, and therefore about politics. In theological circles, it is known as the "Prosperity Gospel." A few decades ago, there was outrage among theologians of the "Liberation Gospel" pushed by missionaries in Central and South America.

But we should not miss the legal mechanism at play. For those who claim "we cannot legislate morality" I ask if there is anything that we do legislate that is not based on morality? Redistribution of wealth (taxation), protecting the environment, same-sex marriage, are all from a moral stance. The Muslim political stance is to lead the very much oppressed and impoverished people when the wealthy ruling classes have done nothing to help their state. It is easy-- find some to blame it on-- the Shaw of Iran (guilty as he could be), the wealthy US (guilty), the wealthy Israeli state (guilty), their own rulers (guilty), but yet they support other wealthy (Saddam, Bin Laden)-- as long as those leaders claim to be on their side. The US is very much in that danger with Christianity.

The difference is, that the new Christianity mixed with politics is one of religion for prosperity. The conservative "tea-party" is largely supported by impoverished white southerners, yet the party does nothing for them. The typical "liberal agenda" is also of driven by marginalized persons, by a party which claims to be on their side, but does nothing for them-- the rulers of both party are the wealthy and ruling class.

Obama's pastor became an issue three years ago, and Rick Perry's "Dominion" is the issue now-- yet American's will fail to see this as political as long as they are told it is a religious movement-- that works because Americans know little about either-- except what their leaders tell them. That the Dominion theology is untenable will be known by few. That Democrats and Republicans care about their constituents only as much as is needed to gain their vote will only be noticed by a few-- in each case, too few to stop what they do.

-----

This notion of "building the Kingdom of God" has been growing louder for the past few decades-- particularly in "non-denominational" Churches which typically have no theological doctrinal oversight. There was a hint about this a year or two ago and if I recall what I read then, the Dallas Baptist Seminary is something a think-tank for this sort of politics. There was a very insightful blog article I stumbled upon about two years ago which gave a very good history of how the movement began and the direction it intends. It is not good.

(I have tried to locate that article for several days)

What drives people to get up early in a Sunday morning, put in their best clothes and drive to a Church?

The obvious answer is to be spiritual fed and to worship. Try that. Go see if the pastors on TV or in the Churches are feeding their flocks spiritually or of it is something else. The real answer seems to be to be told that they can become wealthy and powerful if they throw-in with the leadership. I live in the most liberal area of Texas and that is exactly how I view the Churches here.

Iconic for me: A wealthy leader in the Church I attended in North Texas, a physician living in a mansion. He said, "Doesn't it really boil down to that all Republican's are going to Hell because they are greedy, and all Democrats are saved because they care?" I answered, "You make ten times what I make, yet I give ten times as much to the Church as you. You told me you are withholding your pledge because you think the minister makes too much money. Is that not greed?"

John Prine sang, "Your flag decal won't get you into Heaven any more..."
(all together now?)

No Christian organization or church should ever worry about taking power and trying to control a nation. That is not Yeshua's way. Yeshua said "give to Caeser what belongs to Caesar, give to God what belongs to God", he was refering to the Romans taxing the jews, but the message goes beyond taxes to invlolve anything. The principle is the same. It is not Christ's way to jockey for power. We are to obey God's law, AND obey Man's law, until Man's law comes into conflict with God's law, when that happens we default to God's law because HE comes first in all things. Who else knows better than your creator? Who else knows better than the being that saw each and every molecule in the universe, saw each and every molecule in your unborn body and manipulated them according to his will?

I am not saying i condone these people for making a grab at power, what i AM saying is they are misguided and are going about this the wrong way. People should be allowed to live the way they wish, it is a christians job to witness and testify the glory of the Lord, but we are not to brow beat people or force them into submission of God's will. They have the free will covenant and may serve whatever god or god's they wish, it is their choice. What they do in life is between them and God, and he will deal with it accordingly.

reply to post by Frira


These are churches in rebellion, who have strayed away from Christ's teachings. They are co-opting the Bible for their own agenda. Sure some messages have a politcal annotation, like being anti-abortion or anti-homosexual. You can be against something in a peaceable fashion, by not doing these things. It is okay to disapprove what others do, and to chose a different path for what you believe is right, but it was never meant to be used in a fashion to force your will onto other people, and thats what they are doing.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
No Christian organization or church should ever worry about taking power and trying to control a nation. That is not Yeshua's way. Yeshua said "give to Caeser what belongs to Caesar, give to God what belongs to God", he was refering to the Romans taxing the jews, but the message goes beyond taxes to invlolve anything. The principle is the same. It is not Christ's way to jockey for power. We are to obey God's law, AND obey Man's law, until Man's law comes into conflict with God's law, when that happens we default to God's law because HE comes first in all things. Who else knows better than your creator? Who else knows better than the being that saw each and every molecule in the universe, saw each and every molecule in your unborn body and manipulated them according to his will?

I am not saying i condone these people for making a grab at power, what i AM saying is they are misguided and are going about this the wrong way. People should be allowed to live the way they wish, it is a christians job to witness and testify the glory of the Lord, but we are not to brow beat people or force them into submission of God's will. They have the free will covenant and may serve whatever god or god's they wish, it is their choice. What they do in life is between them and God, and he will deal with it accordingly.

So which laws of god are we to obey exactly? The one's that say to stone your child for stealing? Or put your wife to death for adultery? Or the laws that a woman should stay shut up in her house for 7 days while menstrating and be labelled as unclean? Or maybe the laws against homosexuality? Or is there a new set of laws we should follow? Perhaps the ones of paul telling wives to submit to their husbands? But can we trust pauls word either because who's to say that all of his words were 'gods' words. I'd say some of god's laws are just as unjust as man's laws today. It's all quite the cluster f--- really.