When is life not worth living anymore?

I would have to say the only way I may contemplate suicide is if I knew I was about to suffer a horrific death, such as being burned at the stake, in my opinion, that would have to be the worst way to go

reply to post by davespanners
When the death panels decide the drain you place on finite resources outweighs the amount you will pay in taxes.

For me, it would be when I was in sufficient physical pain to render me incapable of experiencing life beyond the scope of that pain. It would be when I could no longer do the things I love and regard as essential to my contentment as a human being.

This is why I personally have absolutely no problem with assisted suicide, or indeed with suicide itself. I have never been suicidal. I love a lot of things about life and want to go on experiencing it for as long as I can. But I disagree with the idea that suicide is inherently wrong.

The arguments against suicide essentially boil down to:

• 1) It's unethical.
  
• 2) It hurts the loved ones you leave behind, and is therefore selfish.
  
• 3) Life is inherently sacred and thus the taking of even your own life is ignoble.
  

1) I do not believe others should have the right to force their ethics on me or anyone else. Killing someone else would be forcing my ethics on to them, and cause suffering for them and their family. So I do regard killing as unethical. However killing myself only affects me and my immediate loved ones.

2) While this may be true, is it not at least equally selfish of one's loved ones to expect you to live in agony purely for their own emotional appeasement when you have already reached a point within your own mind that tells you that life is no longer bearable? And it's not as if you wouldn't have died eventually, anyway. People don't like to think about it (I mean truly think about it,) but every last one of us is going to die. No matter what, I am going to die someday. That's somehow okay, if regrettable, but dying sooner than that because I'm in daily agony somehow isn't? So it’s a toss up, and I don’t think selflessness would be foremost in my mind if I was suffering to that extent. (Although I would make arrangements to notify and explain to my loved ones first and try to leave as little mess behind for them clean up, both literally and figuratively. If I could, that is.)

3) To partially quote George Carlin:

...you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up. You know why? 'Cause we're alive. Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred.

...

Well let me ask you this. If everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is gonna die, where does the sacred part come in?

To say nothing of the life we extinguish in various forms every day simply by living and consuming. Death is a part of life, and a part of nature. Nature does not share our view that life is sacred in my opinion.

So while as I said, I have never been suicidal and want to go on living for as long as possible, I have absolutely no problem with people taking their own lives or someone else aiding them in the process if their life has become unbearable and all options have been exhausted.

Just my two cents. Peace.

Life is not worth living when all of your freedom is gone. If the NWO attempts to rid our freedoms I will not kill myself tho.. I will try to take them out and die an honorable death in the process trying to free humanity.

I have to say. I am in my early senior years. I grew up in less than decent circumstances. I have watched almost all my loved ones pass before me. I also am a patriot and a vet. I have seen America become a "Strange Land" compared to the America I knew in years past. I am not a sickly person yet but my body is aging and going through changes I never thought would happen.

Regardless of the broken dreams, personal failures, being cheated or even victimized I have to say in all honesty, I have never put conditions or time limits on my life. I didn't pay to be here or plan it. I was given a chance, a gift and I will quit when its time to die !! However that may work out, it will be the way God wants it to be. I am sure of that. I am equally sure it won't be by my hand. I guess I am willing to suffer if need be, rather than pretend I know what's hopeless !

reply to post by davespanners


What a horrible question. I'm afraid I can't flag it.

Suicide is a cowardly, brainless, heartless act. Great harm is done to those left behind, to loved ones and anyone who cares about the person. I've seen it twice in my life and it was the same both times.

Asking for help is brave, wise and the correct answer.

Well i suppose i would end my life if i knew id never be able to enjoy life again, but in a different way i would willingly put myself in harms way if it was in the place of a loved one, if that counts lol.

reply to post by Blaine91555


The people that are left do not know of the last breath the suicide person is experiencing.
Lets not enter the argument who is suffering more, the loving or the suicide person.

reply to post by davespanners

What I would like to know is, what for you would make life not worth carrying on with anymore?

Ive been in those situations. Fear kept me from doing anything. Thank God.

Today, i would never do it. I would hope that i could muster the spiritual energy to endure any degree of sufferring; mental or physical. Ive already been through so much in my life that i have become accustomed to rise above it. Even if i am initially overwhelmed by a degree of sufferring, i eventually build a tolerance towards it.

I would just want any person to know who is dealing with a suicidal depression that there is hope. Its amazing how our perspective; our own subjective reality, can make something horrible and dismal, or spiritual and meaningful. Two completely different and opposed worlds.

It is quite amazing. As long as a potential reality can exist, and you allow that objective fact to curtail any feelings of self pity and the confusion created by negative emotions, than you always have hope. There is no reason ever to despiar.

Only a nihilist who allows his own disturbed emotional state to dictate his "truth" of reality, his philosophy of things, only in such a person with such a deep rooted pessimism would suicide seem like a rational or desirable thing to do.

Suicide is Not a selfish act!
Why should someone live Only to keep his family happy?
Why is physical suffering seen as ok to end your life.
But mental suffering is Not see as a good reason to end your life?
Mental and physical suffering, are the same thing.
But not ever one has suffered mental pain.
So they just dismiss it as not the same as physical pain.

Most people use religion as a reason to live.
And sometimes to die?
Suicide is a cowardly act?
How much courage does it take for a
Soldier to go in to battle knowing he will die?
How much courage does it take to commit suicide?
You call one a hero and the other a coward.
But they both commit suicide!
Religions are just made up to give us a reason to aspect life and death.
And to give us a reason not to commit suicide.
All the people that are left behind care about is them self’s.
When they where apart of the suffering of the suicide.
It is the governments. They don’t want to have the people run out on them.
Think about this. Why in china is it ok to commit suicide?
To many people.
But in the west you are a resores.

Spirit-Film Azsacra Zarathustra represents «Japanese philosophy of action» on Oshio Heihachiro, Takijiro Onishi, Kita Ikki, Yukio Mishima. Tenno Heika Banzai as the Death mechanism. Music: azSacra zaRathustra. The Spirit-film is devoted to Takijiro Onishi — to the severe founder «Kamikaze tokkοtαi ei/ The Formation of Kamikaze Special Attack Force».

In blossom today, then scattered:
life is so like a delicate flower.
how can one expect the fragrance to last for ever ?

(Takijiro Onishi)

"He who lives by the sword will die by the sword". Jesus.

SHIMONO

The law that I live by and which is holding us all bonded is called PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (tm). I did not read it in a book. You will not find it in any book. It was revealed to me by audio clairvoyance during the celebrations of the New Millennium in 2000. Summed up it basically means no sex and no drugs and no violence. (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the One Absolute. The One God there be no other God. Her names are many but she be the one true God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La Deus Nostra, Notre Dame, Our Lady, The Holy Spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic [celestial immortal] powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving Her Holiness Above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to Her Holiness Above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception [parthenogenesis] reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright (c) NGL 2000.

"He who trusts in violence to be his security cannot speak that he trusts in God to be his security". NGL

"Better to kill oneself [suicide] than go out to kill others. Infact as you do to others so shall it be done to you. So if you kill others then obviously others are going to kill you. Therefore you have to be suicidal to want to kill others". NGL

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

reply to post by fatpastyhead


How is that a contradiction between 2 and 3?

I think a lot of people have great stories here
I think a lot of you list great reasons why death could be an option


Now I'm just left to wonder.... how to convince someone its worth living

reply to post by buddha

Soldier to go in to battle knowing he will die? How much courage does it take to commit suicide? You call one a hero and the other a coward. But they both commit suicide!

Thats just not rational.

A soldier dies for a constructive purpose. The suicide is entirely and completely selfish. Nothing constructive comes from that at all. The former gained something through his act; whether that be giving courage and strength to those back home or assisting in a military victory. Other people are positively changed by his actions.

What good comes from a suicide?? Nothing. It is completely and entirely focused on the self; it is completely subjective. Any objective person with a respect for facts would look at the objective reality, and understand that he possesses the power to change things. He DOES, objectively, that is, outside his current lowly emotional state, have the power to draw down a higher emotional awareness of reality. If he understands he thinks the way he does ie his pessimism, because he has a negative emotional state determining his reality, than he he'll understand that he can look at reality in a different way. This "higher" understanding is what William James calls "twice born". Someone who has transcended, so to speak, the pain and sufferring of this world.

And to give us a reason not to commit suicide.

Thankyou for showing me how utterly pessimistic and nihilistic Buddhism can be.

Wow. Religion is our cure for suicide?

What a horrible way to look at the world.

Originally posted by dontreally

A soldier dies for a constructive purpose. The suicide is entirely and completely selfish. Nothing constructive comes from that at all.

Believe it or not, some people commit suicide to take the burden off the hands of the loved ones who may tend to them, or have to see them suffering. Is that selfish?

What good comes from a suicide?? Nothing.

Again, you are wrong. You say it is subjective, which it is...but allow me to paint you a subjective picture and I'll sum it up with one sentence. Pain/sorrow can ONLY be felt when you are alive. That picture clear enough for ya?

It is completely and entirely focused on the self;...

Yes it is...but only sometimes, as I pointed out earlier. Tell me though, why is it wrong for someone to end their misery? Maybe you'd prefer to have them live unhappily, bitter, saddened and broken? The fact is, we are different. What you may be able to cope with, others can't, and vice versa.

it is completely subjective. Any objective person with a respect for facts would look at the objective reality, and understand that he possesses the power to change things. He DOES, objectively, that is, outside his current lowly emotional state, have the power to draw down a higher emotional awareness of reality. If he understands he thinks the way he does ie his pessimism, because he has a negative emotional state determining his reality, than he he'll understand that he can look at reality in a different way. This "higher" understanding is what William James calls "twice born". Someone who has transcended, so to speak, the pain and sufferring of this world.

All have their limits. Some have found ways to greatly expand their limits, others don't. Do me a favour, read through this thread, read through some of the stories...search online for stories of sadness where suicide was the conclusion, and sit hard and try to figure out how exactly you were or are going to convince some of these people that their life is worth living.

I am a strong individual and can push through many things, and thoughtful enough to find solutions for many problems most people end up stuck in. However, there are stories and problems that have left me completely dumbfounded. Scenarios that have made me realise sometimes there is one other option, and it is death. You may not think this is the case, but know this; in this life of duality, we have great power of all forces. All forces/energies are polar (opposing/connecting). We can create life...and we can take it.

Thankyou for showing me how utterly pessimistic and nihilistic Buddhism can be.

Wow. Religion is our cure for suicide?

What a horrible way to look at the world.

As for your brief ignorant rant of Buddhism, understand than Buddhism has taught many people to transcend pains they would have once thought impossible to overcome.

What would you do if you are certain than happiness will no longer be a part of your life? I'm not talking mild happiness that you get from jokes, etc. I'm talking the things that make you who you are; your core. The things that give you reason to seek life. If those things are no longer there and you do not have the ability to find others, and for years you have been deeply sorrowful, what would you do? What is life if you can no longer smile? It may be hard to fathom, but there are people that no longer smile. People who have been robbed of the things that bring them happiness and the the ability to find other things to change it. People who are in constant pain, every single day and no one is there for them. Do you believe in Hell? They say hell is eternal pain and suffering. Guess what, there are people who are actually living in Hell as we speak. The only difference is...it is not eternal; death is the escape. If you want to look at it from an objective point of view, it is this; they can either suffer until they die naturally, or end the lifespan of the suffering. As hard as it may be to believe, sometimes, there are no other routes (this is in extreme cases of course). I think most people can be helped to find happiness; maybe even all, but life isn't always ideal. For instance, you may be a very caring person and will do all you can to help someone who is lonely and in pain, and you may be able to help them. BUT, you cannot be in everyone's lives. There are people who will never meet you, or people like you...no matter how long they wait.

Do not be too narrow minded.

reply to post by davespanners


It is interesting, I work with mentally ill, addictions people in a forensics setting. They don't give a damn that they are a dead weight to society and the world at large. They have left behind most vestiges of humanity and care only for the next superficial lift at any expense. They have zero consiousness about helping anyone and only see everyone as a possible score. The reality is depressing when you look at it with the human condition perspective of the lowest denomination. If you give them food, they turn around and sell it for a hit.

So, we see the pendulum swinging completely on the other side here.

reply to post by davespanners


Although life as it progress gets harder and harder and it seems to slowly loose its purpose i believe that thats when you have to have the WILL to FIND that purpose, and that my friend is the beauty of LIFE

reply to post by sdrawkcabII

Believe it or not, some people commit suicide to take the burden off the hands of the loved ones who may tend to them, or have to see them suffering. Is that selfish?

How many loved ones taking care of a sick person want that sick person to kill themselves?? The answer is not many.

I understand the intensity of the sufferring that person is going through, and its difficult to say this without coming off as insensitive, but suicide IS a selfish act. Even in the example above, the suicidal person uses the above piece of information as justification for doing something their loved ones would object to. And given they are the healthy minded ones, its their reality - and not his own - which should be justified. If they can live happily, why not you???

The main reason a person commits suicide is ignorance. Ignorance of his own self and the nature of reality. Does a suicide really END the pain? Or simply begin another pain which that person will have to further endure until he has reached a state of total conscious nullification? If youre spiritually educated you come to understand that consciousness is everything. When a suicide dies he enters another realm of consciousness in which his pain subsists at an emotional level. The pain is probably much worse in this state.

Being alive is a gift because you can change things, meaning, you have an ego, a personality, the ability to reason, learn and know.. These provide the means to access higher levels of being.

So, only a special type of person thinks differently. Such a person has an emotional and chemical imbalance preventing him from understanding things that other people experience and understand. Experience and emotion is essentially everything; it "creates" and conditions our appreciation of reality. Why else do you think the gods of the ancient pagans were?? The personification of emotional realities. Zeus, Aphrodite, Dionysus, Aries etc.. Because emotional states essentially govern our appreciation of objective reality, they were called "gods". And according to occult teachings, these psycho-spiritual archetypes are objectively real.

As for your brief ignorant rant of Buddhism,

I have many books on Buddhism. I myself practice Zen Buddhism and have recieved tremendous help with my own problems.

Buddhism is a very ecclectic religion. You find opposing schools of thought. Some schools of Buddhism put an innordinate emphasis on pessimism. It is irrationally inclined to thinking life is a big sorrow. And it takes this line of reasoning to its very end, and forms conclusions like "religion exists to keep people from committing suicide".

Technically speaking, isnt Buddhism also being ignorant? How would they know that all religion represents a means to not commit suicide?? Maybe there is something substantial to other religions. For instance, Hebraism. Maybe there was something authentic and unique in the Mosaic revelation that didnt exist elsewhere? Maybe Gods universal will conveyed the 10 commandments - and one who abides by them lives in accord with a moral - spiritual law. . Theyre tremendously rational. An obvious inference of things as they should be. Why wouldnt this be an expression of divine truth?? Maybe living a good life, helping others, and being good; maybe life is this. .

I dont believe in a impersonal universe. I believe God is on our side and wants our success. If that success means living a good life and meeting your spiritual potential, than thats what it is. Thats the point of life. All your spiritual energy comes from that general awareness.

As for years of sorrow.

I endured 10 years of Social anxiety and depression. If anyone is allowed to talk about this, its me.

Emotional states oppose each other. While one exists, the other is completely hidden. Looking at that emotional state from your current emotional perspecitive, is akin to living in communist China and "reasoning" that America cant really allow its people freedom of speech and equality.

Emotion is possessive. The mind can either look up above and see God, or he can look below, and see the devil. With the former, his "angels" convey a beautiful reality. A Heaven. While "the devil" can cause ones life to become the complete opposite - hell. Interminable sufferring, sadness, paranoia and ANXIETY - perhaps the most ferocious feeling a man can know.

I am very sensitive to such a person. Even today i feel the need to pray for those people. Having gone through what i have, i feel they most of all need Gods light. They need freedom from their horrific sufferrings, delusions, and fears.

Ask anyone who is dying and wants to live if they would like to have another day. Its all relative.

Originally posted by MamaJ
I believe in helping others and being here for others in need. I like for people to be support for me as well in my time of need. We are here with an instinct to survive. We love deeply and sob when a loved one passes.

Suicide is a selfish act.....totally against what I believe. To be selfish and kill yourself is a slap in the face to your loved ones. Its a cowardly act. For anyone to commit such an act is pathetic in my opinion.

Keeping someone from committing suicide because you demand their services of friendship, companionship, or just plain money is a selfish act. "No! You can't commit suicide... I demand you keep me company at Christmas". "No! You can't commit suicide... you have to provide $500 in value for your closest family each week." Hah, I'm sorry but its you who is selfish if you're going to make such demands of people.

It takes a lot of bravery to shoot your self point blank in the head. A lot of bravery. So no, its not a cowardly act. For anyone to actually look down on someone for choosing how they want to live their life and end their life is a pathetic act. I think its incompassionate and possibly cruel to force someone who is living in misery to continue to be miserable for decades.

If I believed the rest of my life would be miserable I promise you I'd off myself. Yet, I consider myself an extremely generous, caring, and giving person. If you expect people who don't care for them self to care for others? Not going to happen.