Massive European Network of Stone Age Tunnels that Weaves from Scotland to Turkey

Originally posted by GonzoSinister
Pow..... Smoking gun... they could not have done this in the dark!!! Genuis!!!

It doesn't look like there is enough ventilation to even use torches.

The only viable light source would be candles. Ideally, they would be used in lanterns.

So I'm looking at the wiki now and supposedly, candles only go back to 200BC in China and 400 AD in Europe. Apparently there isn't any evidence of candles going further back then that...but I wonder what you'd really expect to find from such a perishable item.

It would seem unlikely for hunter gatherers to come by enough bees wax or even cow fat. However as soon as you have people hunting with bluffs and corrals, they would have had the large supply of animals and enough people for the specialization to clean them all and get the fat and do something with it like make a bunch of tallow candles.

I wonder how old the oldest known lantern is? It seems like it would have been possible to make one by the bronze age at the latest. Even further back, it wouldn't have been impossible to make a few of them if only you had the right ideas.

Nice find.

I took the freedom to gather a few of the links from previous pages (please give stars to appropriate person instead of me).

Bosnia

Turkey

Malta

I have to say it dosent look like theres alot of ventilation/air in those tunnels. How did they light up the tunnel without oxygen? not to mention how did they breath?.....Also why so claustrophobic envirements, its almost as if the tunnels is build for a smaller race like dwarves
Isent there supposed to be a dwarven race on the inside of hollow earth ?

unlikely, but nomatter what it is it still looks interesting.

I just got a real strange idea: We all know that it's said that you 'See the light at the end of the tunnel' if you're about to die. Maybe this is based on some old lore and was true. What if it was really dark in these tunnels and once they (whoever they were) deceided to fetch another human hiding in these tunnel systems the last thing they saw was the 'light at the end'.

I know that this never can be proven to be true but who knows...

This topic really sparked my ancient history imagination. Googled some articles and fell upon this.

Recreational Tunnel Building source

Maybe these tunnels were created for religious/sacred reasons. The mayan/atec(one of those guys) saw caves as a passage to the underworld and a place for the dead. Who knows, maybe these caves were created because the people making them were supposed/required to (like the pyramids).

Idk...just a thought....

Cool find though!

reply to post by anon72


So the book titled 'Power of the coming race', may not be fiction after all.
Intriguing nonetheless specially the fotos show neatly cut tunnels, as if once upon a time
there was water flowing thru them.

reply to post by olliemc84


To protect them from people invading? Stealing from them and rapiing their wome. I don't know if this went on but from some stuff I have read people used to be a bit... harsh, back then.



Very interseting post though.

reply to post by anon72


Do you happen to know what the book is called in German? I might pick this one up and give it a read.

"Derinkuyu is notable for its large multi-level underground city" Located in Turkey, related to Scotland somehow?
oldest written source about underground cities is the writings of Xenophon

Derinkuyu
Xenophon


Underground cities/tunnel networks are not uncommon.

Now who has a time machine?

reply to post by anon72


Very interesting find. I think the "cavemen" were smarter than we give them credit for.

Some of the tunnels look very similar and have the same dimensions as the tunnels the Vietnamese used during the war:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b0d6c72986e6.jpg[/atsimg]

Source

The article states the possible use of the stone age tunnels:

Some experts believe the network was a way of protecting man from predators while others believe that some of the linked tunnels were used like motorways are today.

I doubt there was a direct connection between Scotland and Turkey though. They probably meant there are similar tunnels under each country.

Sorry, but my lights went out as soon as I saw the source of the story - The Daily Mail.

reply to post by anon72


This really makes sense. Digging is one of the most essential and basic skills humans have. From burying the dead to simply child fun.

While I am unsure people dug them, People would use them, and dig more of them.

Only question is. Why? Geothermic heat in the ice age? Protection from unknown foes? Who knows.

Originally posted by Nicolas Flamel
The article states the possible use of the stone age tunnels:

Some experts believe the network was a way of protecting man from predators while others believe that some of the linked tunnels were used like motorways are today.

I doubt there was a direct connection between Scotland and Turkey though. They probably meant there are similar tunnels under each country.

The article is a bit loose in it's wording, implying a little more than it is, I believe that what they have found is that there is a connection between stoneage settlements and tunnel networks, and that the practice of tunneling has been found at sites as widespread as Scotland and Turkey.

Mining was a common industry amongst the people of the stoneage, and subsequently, and we weren't afraid, yet or in the same way, of the underworld or of caves, we were used to living in them and valued them. The oldest known mine, in Swaziland, was believed to have been started 70,000 years ago and only ceased production (and is thereby preserved) following a cave in that blocked the cave entrance. The stoneage miners did what all other miners do, and followed the desired resourced through whatever it was embedded in. Flint, obsidian and Jadeite as finished axe heads were traded over distances of up to 400km, some travelled even further, in return the miners got fish and shells, it is believed.

People were nomadic in those times, following the migration of mammoths and such.
Also 12000 years ago was in the middle of an ice age, it makes perfect sense for them
to have dug out underground shelters for when the the conditions became too harsh to travel.
Humans lived in small bands or clans, and there were probably thousands of different groups
roaming around, all with the same idea, so they would have shared each others shelters
and probably marked the entrances, which would account for why there are so many and
why they are so widespread across europe. Its interesting they are not found in southern
warmer climates where the iceage was less harsh.

No offence.... but what makes anyone think those tunnels were created by man.... a network tunnel that you can only riggle through?, I've been told man build ancient pyramids and the underwater structures, and other great structures, but those tunnels don't look man made, especially considering that to have this huge connection of tunnels would take hundreds or thousands of years, with ancient tools...

I suspect those tunnels were carved out by flood waters resulting from the end of the last ice age.
That ice age, coincidentally ended 12,000 years ago.

Interesting that the article states that these tunnels can be found as far south as Turkey.
Coincidentally, Turkey sits south of the Black Sea.

Anyone familiar with the Epic of Gilgamesh or the tale of Noah knows that a leading theory describing the cause of these events was massive flooding from glacial melt overwhelming the Black Sea.

Just my $.02

ETA: I'm not insinuating that people did not make good use of these tunnels, I'm sure the people were more than happy to put these gifts of nature to good use.

These tunnels were built for Interboard trolls
small and slippery, perfect for tight holes

reply to post by FoxStriker


They most likely began working on natural fissures. And some rocks are easier to work than others. We know that they made stone tools, for varying purposes, using a wide variety of different types of stone. Some stones are very good at cutting through other stones. They had developed stone polishing by this time, digging through sedementary rock to form tunnels is easy in comparison. They had also probably learnt how to use fire to split fissures when they needed larger rocks by this time. It isn't called the Stone Age for nothing, our ancestors were very busy exploiting this new technology in every possible manner that they could think off.

I would bet that humans at that time had far better vision in darkness than modern man.

Even among modern humans, if the diet is significantly controlled, it can produce significant gains in night vision and even infrared.

The following story dramatizes how photopigments determine what one can see. During World War II, the United States Navy wanted its sailors to be able to see infrared signal lights that would be invisible to the enemy. Normally, it is impossible to see infrared radiation because, as pointed out earlier, the wavelengths are too long for human photopigments. In order for humans to see infrared, the spectral sensitivity of some human photopigment would have to be changed. Vision scientists knew that retinal, the derivative of vitamin A, was part of every photopigment molecule and that various forms of vitamin A existed. If the retina could be encouraged to use some alternative form of vitamin A in its manufacture of photopigments, the spectral sensitivity of those photopigments would be abnormal, perhaps extending into infrared radiation. Human volunteers were fed diets rich in an alternative form of vitamin A but deficient in the usual form. Over several months, the volunteers’ vision changed, giving them greater sensitivity to light of longer wavelengths. Though the experiment seemed to be working, it was aborted. The development of the “snooperscope,” an electronic device for seeing infrared radiation, made continuation of the experiment unnecessary (Rubin and Walls, 1969). Still, the experiment demonstrates that photopigments select what one can see; changing those photopigments would change one’s vision.

Fundamentals of Visual Science, Rubin, M. L., and Walls, G. L. (1969)

A significant gain in infrared would eliminate the need for any visible light source.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I would bet that humans at that time had far better vision in darkness than modern man.

Even among modern humans, if the diet is significantly controlled, it can produce significant gains in night vision and even infrared.

A significant gain in infrared would eliminate the need for any visible light source.

I agree. I got very interested in colour perception a while back, it seems that it is possible, through diet for humans to achieve tetrachromacy. I also believe that some of us once were anyway, and we lost it through the narrowing of our diet.

reply to post by Amassuo


If not, I invite you to do so then let me know whether you feel it pertinent to dissect it in your most professional way.

As for these tunnels? Alien Greys...*fighting to remove the tin foil hat permanently attached like the face suckers from Aliens*

They are intriguing, especially the age, I would hazard a guess that I have no idea.