Elenin Coma Diameter Exceeds 200,000 km says Leonid Elenin

reply to post by CAELENIUM

WOW...
in the past few months I have taken part in many elenin threads
and done much reading on the topic including many ill informed
posts and articles but your input into this thread is wrong for so many reasons
but out of respect for your ideas I will only ask that you privide the links to the
sources of your information...espsially interested the parts you misquot Mr.Elenin

reply to post by CaptChaos

The area in which an object must be in order to transit the Sun from Earth's perspective is very small, astronomically speaking.

Transits take place over a period of hours not days and certainly not taking more than 16 days as you're claiming. I would think Elenin's velocity is far too great to take that long to pass in front of the Sun, perhaps you could prove me wrong.

Elenin's node crossing and inferior conjunction are at two different locations in space and at two different periods in time so no tail for Earth. Looking at a scale model of our solar system would make this very clear.

The ion tail, also called the magnetosphere, of Venus, does not touch the Earth,

Venus has no intrinsic magnetic field.

events in the history and evolution of the interior of Venus have left that planet with practically no intrinsic magnetic field.

The magnetosphere from Venus is caused by the Sun's solar wind.

The 'magnetosphere' of Venus that was detected by spacecraft is now known to be an example of an 'induced' magnetosphere. In an induced magnetosphere, the solar wind interacts directly with the planetary ionosphere.

Would it be accurate to state that this is the same description given for a comets ion tail?

SOHO detects Venus' ion tail.

Venus sports a giant, ion-packed tail that stretches almost far enough to tickle the Earth when the two planets are in line with the Sun.

If I remember correctly I read a story on Earth satellites picking up this ion tail during the June 2004 transit. Couldn't find the story so maybe that was a bad source. My point is that transits are rare and don't last long. The last one from a comet was back in 1910 and didn't cause any real problems. I think passing through a comets tail would be interesting and possibly dangerous but we may never know.

Originally posted by Devino
Venus has no intrinsic magnetic field.

I have a lot of issues with a lot of the things you've said, but this is just abjectly wrong. All matter has intrinsic magnetic fields.

Originally posted by CAELENIUM
Comets...

Most everything you've said about comets is wrong.

reply to post by CAELENIUM


WoW Good Post, an eye opener, my initial thoughts were similar as elnin is moving much too slowly to be a comet.
Something certainly is in the offing.

spaceobs.org...
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Originally posted by StalkingGoogle

Originally posted by Devino
Venus has no intrinsic magnetic field.

I have a lot of issues with a lot of the things you've said, but this is just abjectly wrong. All matter has intrinsic magnetic fields.

Perhaps it would best be stated that Venus has no intrinsic planetary magnetic field. All matter has an intrinsic magnetic field, but, in large enough systems, that magnetic field cancels out, leaving most objects neutral. A planet is a perfect example of this. The planet, itself, is a magnetically neutral object. However, core fluid dynamics generate planetary magnetic fields... when the planet involved has a liquid core. Venus has no such mechanism for generating a planetary magnetic field. Therefore, Venus has no intrinsic (planetary) magnetic field.

reply to post by StalkingGoogle

I have a lot of issues with a lot of the things you've said, but this is just abjectly wrong. All matter has intrinsic magnetic fields.

The data showing no intrinsic magnetic field has been derived from the Mariner, Pioneer and Russian Venera space probes. View the link, dispute that evidence. This is not my opinion, just what the data shows.


P.S.
For all your Issues.

fear mongering at it's dumbest. Apparently no one payed attention in third grade science class. How the hell can anyone be so stupid than to claim we are going to be caught in the tail of this thing? The tail of ANY comet face AWAY from the sun, it doesn't tail behind the comet in the opposite way it is traveling. To us here on Earth it will appear as if the comet is moving sideways, because the tail of comets point away from the sun.

Not to mention if you look at NASA's trajectory prediction software, the comet will be ABOVE our orbit by the time it is crossing the same orbital path as Earth.

Come on people, this comet isn't hitting us, it's going to whizz past us and we'll all sit and watch it go by, and the next day all the nay-Sayers are going to come on here posting about the next catastrophe. Give it a freaking rest already.

Originally posted by sith9157
Umm...remember in 1999 when we could see comet Hale-Bopp for a good portion of the year with our naked eyes...If Elenin is as big as they say it is, how come we cannot see it glowing in the night sky?

www.youtube.com...=172

reply to post by today


OMG!!! Nibiru has blinking navigation lights and is spraying chemtrails!!! These videos are clearly of a passenger jet at high altitude, catching the light of the Sun on its short contrail. It probably keeps appearing at the same time because it is a regularly scheduled flight.

reply to post by Vortiki

It's difficult to see from JPL's Small-Body Database Browser but this comet appears to be coming from the far side of the Sun, from our perspective now, and above the Earth's orbital plane. It crossed Earth's orbital plane (descending node) not long ago and will be at closest approach soon. Elenin will cross Earth's orbital plane again soon (ascending node) and continue on out behind the Sun from our perspective now. Everything is moving so these perspectives change but I think that this is a good summary.

The idea that the tail of Elenin could hit Earth is not so far fetched. The comet would need to be at inferior conjunction (close approach), at a node crossing and be close enough or have a long enough tail at this point. Problem is that none of these points will be met. Elenin's tail is not long enough nor will it transit the Sun. Even if Elenin's tail were to suddenly grow long enough (20+ million Km or so) it would completely miss Earth.

reply to post by RUSSO



So quite small then.

Back in October 2007, comet 17P/Holmes had a coma bigger than the Sun ......

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Allow me to break this down a little for you:

Leonid Elenin is either talking absolute crap, because no one knows a fig about what is really going on in space, himself especially since his degree is in mathematics not astronomy, or he is a paid stooge of the gits at the top pouring excrement on everyone.

As a mathematician, he is ideally suited to calculate things like cometary orbits. As for the rest of your statement....

Let me tell you what Elenin really is. Comets do not move in the plane of the ecliptic.

Some do, some don't.

Elenin is moving wholely entirely completely fully in the plane of the ecliptic.

No. It is inclined about 2 degrees to the ecliptic. Close, but no cigar.

Comets move at high velocity. Elenin is moving far too slowly to be a comet. Elenin is a rogue planet.

The velocity of a body in orbit is proportional to it's distance from the body it is orbiting. Look up Kepler's Laws. A planet with Elenin's orbit would be moving at the exact same velocity as the comet is.

Comets are low in mass and certainly cannot cause earthquakes.

Correct. Neither can planets.

To illustrate the point notice that every time the Earth the Sun and Jupiter or Saturn align there is usually a magnitude 7 earthquake or two somewhere or other.

First, read this warning from the people who wrote the software that people have been using to discover these "alignments":

Warning: If you intend to use cometary orbital elements in a two-body propagation to compute future/past position (ephemerides), your results will be inaccurate and in some cases, completely incorrect. The motion of comets is affected by their so-called non-gravitational forces (the rocket-like force from outgassing of material from the comet while close to the sun). Thus, it is especially important to use HORIZONS to compute comet ephemerides.

ssd.jpl.nasa.gov...

Next, bear in mind that there are over 100 magnitude 6+ earthquakes every year.

If the original figure of 80,000 kilometres diameter posted by Leonid Elenin back in April is to be believed then that indicates that Elenin is about the size of Uranus or Neptune. That he now up dates the measurement to 100,000 kilometres is interesting. His belief that the object is a comet only goes to show that he is not a professionally qualified astronomer. He is just a silly mathematician.

The figures you quote are for the coma, a cloud of dust and gas that surrounds the nucleus of every comet. The nucleus itself is only a few kilometers across. You should really do some basic research before you start calling other people silly.

In December 2010 Elenin, as it was entering the Solar System, passed by Saturn and caused a massive volcanic eruption to occur

The comet came nowhere near Saturn. The storm occurs seasonally and has been observed roughly every thirty years for the past 150 years. It is caused by the heating of the Sun, a bit like El Nino here on Earth. Look up "the Great White Spot."

Will Elenin cause massive volcanic eruptions on Earth as it passes by us in October ?

No.

Remember Leonid Elenin is a Russian and living in the eastern sector and cannot be trusted with regard to intelligence. He is a KGB agent.

I thought you said he was a "silly mathematician."

Also I nearly forgotten to mention that no one has yet detected a comet tail. So how can that be ? Obviously because Elenin is certainly not a comet.

I can see a bit of tail-age, can't you?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/964056e5055c.jpg[/atsimg]

www.astronomie.be...

Originally posted by DJW001
As a mathematician, he is ideally suited to calculate things like cometary orbits. As for the rest of your statement....

Orbits aren't calculated, they are observed.

Originally posted by DJW001
Correct. Neither can planets.

False. It isn't mass that causes earthquakes, it is electric discharge. Comets frequently short-circuit these electric fields that drive the motion of the planets around the sun and drive all systems on planets, weather, tectonic activity and so on.

Originally posted by DJW001
It is caused by the heating of the Sun, a bit like El Nino here on Earth. Look up "the Great White Spot."

Storms, on Earth or on other planets, are not caused by "solar heating", all weather is driven by electric currents.

Originally posted by Vortiki
The tail of ANY comet face AWAY from the sun, it doesn't tail behind the comet in the opposite way it is traveling. To us here on Earth it will appear as if the comet is moving sideways, because the tail of comets point away from the sun.

Cometary "tails" are actually electric discharges, the same discharge that lights up the comet and ablates the surface. As such they're not subject to newton's "laws of motion".

Originally posted by Devino
The data showing no intrinsic magnetic field has been derived from the Mariner, Pioneer and Russian Venera space probes.

All matter has intrinsic magnetic fields, despite your opinion to the contrary. Further, magnetic fields are a result of electric fields, and they really have no other cause. We know of no other way to generate magnetic fields except with electric fields. To suggest that a planet has no magnetic field is akin to suggesting it's in an electrically neutral environment, something which we know is not the case anywhere in the solar system.

Originally posted by CLPrime
Perhaps it would best be stated that Venus has no intrinsic planetary magnetic field.

It would be best not to say anything remotely like that.

Originally posted by CLPrime
All matter has an intrinsic magnetic field, but, in large enough systems, that magnetic field cancels out, leaving most objects neutral.

Abjectly false.

Originally posted by CLPrime
A planet is a perfect example of this.

Again, false.

Originally posted by CLPrime
The planet, itself, is a magnetically neutral object.

Also quite false.

Originally posted by CLPrime
However, core fluid dynamics generate planetary magnetic fields... when the planet involved has a liquid core.

Hahaha yes of course the ridiculous "dynamo" hypothesis, universally discredited by all of known physics.

Originally posted by CLPrime
Venus has no such mechanism for generating a planetary magnetic field. Therefore, Venus has no intrinsic (planetary) magnetic field.

Planetary magnetic fields are not generated by "liquid core", they are generated by electric fields, such as the radial electric field powering the sun, in the path of which are all known planets and bodies of the solar system, including comets and "KBO"'s.

reply to post by StalkingGoogle


I think you need to read up on the difference between an intrinsic planetary magnetosphere and an induced magnetosphere (among other things):

For the planets that have no internal magnetic dynamo the solar wind induces a magnetosphere through its interaction with the upper atmosphere and ionosphere. We will distinguish between these two types of magnetospheres by calling them intrinsic and induced magnetospheres according to the source of their magnetic fields.

www-ssc.igpp.ucla.edu...

Originally posted by DJW001
I think you need to read up on the difference between an intrinsic planetary magnetosphere and an induced magnetosphere (among other things):

I think you need to learn some elementary physics (among other things). There is no known way to generate a magnetic field except by using electric fields. Period. You can split all the hairs you like or play semantic games all day long, that fact is not going to ever change.