We're Taking Back Our Government, and This Is What We Have To Say

Originally posted by ForeverDusk

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by ForeverDusk

 

Most people have been so indoctrinated by the media that their eyes will gloss over and they will refuse to listen to you when you attempt to explain the state of things. I've been at this for years and I'm starting to think that the only thing that will actually change anything is the coming financial collapse, not the efforts of men like you and myself... Not even Ron Paul... Only the complete and total loss of the one thing that they use to control us more than anything else... Money.

Why must we be so persistent in dragging on the whole "UGH, NO ONE EVER LISTENS, DON'T BOTHER" ordeal? Can't someone just be optimistic every once and a while?

Sorry but that's the reality of the situation. The majority doesn't listen, the majority doesn't care and the majority will not do anything. Even more so many of the people who claim that they want change and will go fight die and do whatever is necessary for it will do F*** all as well. I mean sorry but there is nothing to be optimistic about. We did this to ourselves and now all are punished.

Trowa

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Then you can cast your vote accordingly. I absolutely believe Planned Parenthood should lose government funding. They provide a service I disagree with but the people want. They should fund their own endeavor accordingly.

So now we are back to voting? I can vote now. I do not need some poster on ATS to start a faux revolution in order for me to vote.

Healthcare will fix itself. I myself am an EMT and I offer my services free of charge. A nation that is not so wrapped up in itself will not require so many taxes and other fees imposed on healthcare providers. This should adjust the cost accordingly. If people can't afford to go, they will get no business. I don't need to draw a picture on where that leads..

Healthcare is not something people pick and choose like buying tvs and cars. Everyone needs healthcare and healthcare providers have a monopoly but that is beside the point.

Just saying it will fix itself makes no sense when you actually read what I am saying. Two different opinions of how health care should actually work in the US. So we all revolt and...go with your idea?

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Nobody once said anything about a violent overthrow of government.

From the OP

We of the several States hereby issue an Order for all politicians who have violated the United States Constitution: to immediately vacate our Offices. They shall receive a Trial by Jury on one or more counts of treason.

Either this is a completely empty request or a threat to be followed up with enforcement. Which is it?

You are projecting and assigning.

No I am just reading. This thread is not about voting in the next election it is about forcibly removing people from their elected offices.

Certainly, that's the last thing anyone would want.

You must not have read many threads here yet.

This is why we protest.

This is why we gather as intellectually as possible and put together these things.

In order to prevent violence.

That is great and I really hope you enjoy it. Just remember that when YOU protest, that does not mean you speak for me. "We" needs to be better defined.

reply to post by spav5


We're keeping the system as it was originally intended. A sort of "reset" of the federal bureaucracy. Everyone has a place at the table due to the nature of our great constitution.

There are many facets to this. Most importantly, the American people need to be more educated on the real interests running this country. I'm afraid that there may be a sudden uprising with people joining in across the country just out of pure frustration. But if they don't know what went wrong exactly, they're bound to repeat the same mistakes. We see this is what happened in Egypt. You can't demand someone be removed from office, only to have their brethren take the helm.

We need a complete reset. It's as simple as demanding it.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
That would be decided at a new Congress. This is about restoring the Constitution.

edit on 8/4/2011 by ForeverDusk because: (no reason given)

What new congress? The one the teabaggers install? The one the Democrats put in place? Why on Earth would I want to abdicate my roll in electing officials to some "new congress?" You are suggesting we overthrow the government and install a new congress

That's not at all what I'm suggesting. The "new Congress" is the same body that's been in place since the founding of this country, just with new people. You know, NOT career politicians.

That is exactly what I said.

Those "new people" would be put in place by whom?
The people already in place would be removed how?
Why would I let them decide who gets to be president instead of voting myself?

reply to post by Kitilani


The right to a fair trial is written out in the Constitution. By no means does this constitute a violent overthrow.

"We" has been designated QUITE clearly as the OP already said. Technically twice now. The undersigned.
Don't agree? Don't participate. Simple.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by spav5

 

We're keeping the system as it was originally intended. A sort of "reset" of the federal bureaucracy. Everyone has a place at the table due to the nature of our great constitution.

There are many facets to this. Most importantly, the American people need to be more educated on the real interests running this country. I'm afraid that there may be a sudden uprising with people joining in across the country just out of pure frustration. But if they don't know what went wrong exactly, they're bound to repeat the same mistakes. We see this is what happened in Egypt. You can't demand someone be removed from office, only to have their brethren take the helm.

We need a complete reset. It's as simple as demanding it.

you seem to be making my point...We will just replace it with the same..HOW do we prevent from doing that..can't say educating because people have been trying to educate the masses already. And if we do have a means to massively educate them..what do we educate them about..that the government is corrupt..they already know that. What do we educate them with so the next government is not corrupt..and whose interpretation of the constitution will we follow..Mine? Yours? O'reilly's? do you see my point?

Really it is not even a plan to kill the deer it is just a talk about a plan to kill a deer and that is so far from having dinner my large intestine is eating my small intestine.

reply to post by Kitilani


Ok, then be happy voting now. Let me know how that works out for you.

You constantly talk about not needing things in this thread so why are you here?

I am a free human. I will not be marginalized by your subjective view of who I am.

This is our country. These are our people. This is very serious.

What a great concept and well written declaration. However, as you can see by the course of this thread, such an idea has no chance of becomming a movement as long as people hold on to the philosophy of "what's in it for me".

reply to post by Kitilani


Look, i understand that not everything is laid out, but i'm sure we can all agree that our country has gone to the dogs? We may not have all the answers yet, but the fact of the matter is that currently our nation is overrun and ruled by economic tyranny. You say we already have voting systems in place...really? Did the AMERICAN PEOPLE have a say in the whole debt ceiling debacle? Did the American people have a say in the intervention of Libya? When was the last time anything in this country has been decided on BY THE PEOPLE, aside from the president? Even then, we are offered a meager few to choose from, due , again, to the degradation of principles at the hand of the almighty dollar.

The point is, we need this to change.When the colonists decided to split from England , they did not have a pitch perfect plan, as you seem to be asking for, yet throughout (and after) the revolution they took the time to plan out an entirely new government. They set course through uncharted waters, and persevered through DISCOURSE.

We have it easier than they do, because we don't even need a new form of government, we just have to restore the original layout, and flush out the rampant corruption. Even then, of course there will be disagreements on the specifics of how things should be run. GOOD! We can argue over it, debate, as CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES. At least at this point our opinions will have actual weight to them, as opposed to now. At least then, unlike now, we will have the opportunity to rebuild this nation as a nation BY the people, and FOR the people.

Is this clear enough?

reply to post by Kitilani

Originally posted by Kitilani

Healthcare is not something people pick and choose like buying tvs and cars. Everyone needs healthcare and healthcare providers have a monopoly but that is beside the point.

So you are saying when my employer offered me a choice between Blue Cross, Community Blue, Independent Health and Oxford Health Care, that I couldn't compare plans and pick what was best for me?

Why does everyone need a healthcare? Only sick people go to doctors.

Originally posted by Kitilani
The one the teabaggers install?

Historians have recently concluded a study showing that British soldiers calling the American patriots "Teabaggers" didn't work in 1776 and still isn't working in 2011.


Great job OP!

I agree with the sentiment of this document completely.
My question is how will this document be delivered and to whom?

OP-
Do you need signitures, I'll sign that mother right now!!!
Can you create a PDF of what you wrote? I would like to print it and spread it like a west Texas wild fire. I know I can copy and paste it, but I would rather it come from you, the auther.

ETA: your avatar is awsome OP
The look on Ron's face is priceless. What debate is that from? I would love to see the context the head shaking smirk came from.

reply to post by ForeverDusk


Buddy you are obviously living in lala land. No one will give a sh..t about your short manifesto. This is the land of the lazy, self-serving, ignorant and celebrity, sex- and sport maniacs. As long as the latter flow in a steady neverending stream, not a single soul will do anything to defy the system as it has been defied in Tunisia, Egypt, Greece and Syria.

This is America dude. Next week this will be long forgotten and life will go on as usual. I bet on it anytime and anywhere you want.

reply to post by ForeverDusk


this is nice S&F for taking the time


oh, dear looks like this revolution is about to devour it's children pre-born as it were

the real problem here is it is only a declaration of primary intent
i.e. the abolition of the current line up of government offices.

how are the people going to go about replacing these elective offices with people who are not corrupt or secretly members of the ancien regime, hmm , or avoid a repeat of the french rev?

do you think the mega-corps, the MIC, and all these Czars we've got, mostly taking up space IMO, are just going abandon their jobs willingly?

history has shown that no entrenched power structure has ever been removed without violence, there it is.

what kind of gov is going to replace it? surely not a reset as our prolific new member has stated [ my i'm beginning to think my 1st impression of you was wrong and you simply lack manners], resetting the system just sets up another round of repeated history, 10 yrs and we'll be back at this current point again.

what's needed is more work here , a complete autopsy cataloging how and why the system the FF's left us failed, and proposals for solutions for a new system,

protesting stopped working back in the early 70's late 60's when a mounted policeman discovered he could disrupt a protest by backing up his horse and having it dump on the protesters, nowadays if a bunch of "snot-nosed kids" chain themselves to trees to prevent their cutting the enforcer class just sprays chemicals in their eyes, even if they are minors, soon it'll be microwaves openly used on people. an armed revolt will fail because like the protests, it's all factored and accounted for by TCOTBIP,
and made a certainty by their agents provocateurs

what do you think all this "in your face" spit-balling, poking and bullying by pols and their enforcers are about?

before any kind of revolution can have a modicum of success the following is needed:

a complete organigram, of TCOTBIP: we need to know who the true enemies of the human race really are and who has to be gotten rid of, period.

a major expose by anon [also see above] or a similar group of forbidden tech: this includes defensive and offensive weaponry, especially the former, medicine,etc.

let's see if the psychopaths can pull another Waco/ruby ridge when everybody can:

generate their own power/food/water and has a Tesla shield protecting all that and their homes, and if push comes to shove be able to hit back against any violence from "the authoritarians".

a reformulation of the universal natural and civic rights of humanity stripped of irrationalities and any sort of parasitism . i.e. the right to a job [no such thing, you either create your own means of employment or somebody has to "give" you one, so there is no such right, as claiming their is leads to the initiation/use of force.],

free choice for women, i'm a guy, but i can't have a kid if a women won't cooperate, period.
the anti-abortionists are just little-patriarchs and their enslaved females,
newsflash: the age of Osiris and Christ [of the father] is over. we're in the age of horus now.

a new social contract/ constitution, preferably for world wide use including a Grand Convention stating that the use of atomic/nuclear, chemical, psychological, and/or biological weapons against humans are grounds for extermination of the offenders. the reason for world wide is 2 fold

1- the revolution must be world wide in order to succeed, all the psychopaths must be locked up or exterminated.
this will prevent any world empires planned by the one-world government promoters by preempting them.
2- the world-wide nature would prevent any kind of rallying of TCOTBIP. they'd all be busy with their own patch.

and no need to topple the government and fall into the trap, just stop providing food, energy, time, money, and most importantly your sanction to the present order of things, no need for violence at all, other than as self defense from some psychopath that just doesn't get it.

so get typing OP

reply to post by ForeverDusk

I love your avatar. And the entire senate along with at least half of congress would need to be thrown out on their ass.
Then you could start to deal with prevention of it happening again by taking the lobbyists out into the deep woods and leave them.

reply to post by Kitilani

This is America. You want a civil war then just say it.

Yeah the Ayn Randies are brave and loud when it comes to trashing the most vulnerable, but they really need to start saying what they really think, and we can start dusting off the Union and Confederate uniforms, already, and bring it. Actually, I'd rather the country have socialist and right wing sectors. Don't like the Libertarians, then relocate only the next sector over.

That is a very well written letter, OP and I will stand behind it 100%. I think that some of you are missing the point. Getting the idiots out of office does not mean we have anarchy or have to completely change the way we do things. There is a constitution, and this is simply stating that we need to go back to actually following that constitution. We can elect new officials, but I think they should have a spending limit on their campaigns, all candidates should have an equal opportunity for advertisements with Facts...no mudslinging, I also think that all candidates should have an extensive background and criminal history check published for the entire country to see before anyone is able to vote. I also agree that it would be a smart idea to get people in office that have the smarts, but are not born into politics, as that may be one of the reasons for so much of the corruption we're seeing. Above all, I want things to get fixed before my daughter is grown, because at the rate we're going when she's old enough to live on her own, she will be a slave to the debt that she was born into.

reply to post by Kitilani


I think the point of the letter is that real change needs to be made, I disagree with some points in it as well, but you seem to be delibrately miss-understanding and under simplifiying his message to exaggerate him into an extremist...

Frankly reform is needed not revolution and civil war, and I think most americans feel REFORM is needed.

How about congress term limits? Make it so our elected officials can't make a career out of selling out the public interest to start? Or would that be to "Extremist" for you?

Or how about instead of policing the world we take that money and dump it all into our failing education system so that Voters are not mindless sheep who buy all the crap the media is selling to them?

You make it seem like the answer is to cross your fingers and hope for the best.

I believe our Government has always worked the way we see today. Nothing has really changed other than the window became much larger for all to peek through. I think you believe too much in the religion of politics; thinking there is something to restore or make better. "We" the people have always elected the officials into the offices they sit in. Maybe, just maybe there isn't anything wrong with the politcians at all.