Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

This song never made sense to me

I didn't read beyond the first half of the first page. I'm not much for reading other peoples opinions, I come here for them to read mine.

This universe is extremely vast. We know so little. You could go so far as to say we know NOTHING. What little we do know is that every bit of matter in existence is exchangeable. The atoms my body is made of were probably the very same atoms that were once parts of dozens of other living creatures. Our atoms are the same atoms that have been, and will be. We were forged in the centers of stars, the creators of all but the very simplest form of atom. Every time I read or hear more about god and how he is everywhere and knows everything it only makes more sense to me that yes the universe is god, the universe is everywhere, the universe is everything, the universe existing gave rise to gas clouds, stars, super novas, nebulae and even life. I do not think for a second that the universe is conscious. Whatever set this universe in motion will undoubtedly be labeled as the new "god."

Originally posted by minkmouse
I'll flat out come in here and say there is no God as man perceives him pure and simple I believe that!

Dear minkmouse,

How can anyone know God completely when we are all born and live limited, not all knowing? I agree with you, we can only know him as much as our hearts and mind are like him, in agreement, he can know where we are not and forgive us because we have done nothing wrong. Be well.

Reading your doubtful confession, it seems that you do not truly understand what it means to "Know" God. Of course God is not a physical being. He is Spirit. Thus, you must commune with him in spirit. If you expect to hear voices in your head or a booming voice from the heavens, you're dead wrong. It's more than that.

Humans are very spiritual beings. If you neglect that part of you however, you are not connecting with God. You've got to dip your head into the upside-down river that is above you. The heavens, where He resides, so-called the spiritual realm. God can manifest Himself in the physical realm, if ever so rarely. But if that's all you expect from Him, you are looking in all the wrong places.

As for me, I am deeply entwined in a relationship with God. I speak with Him every day. And when I say this, I definitely don't mean I hear voices in my head or from above. It's something different, something that I can't quite explain in human words. But when he DOES speak with me, I KNOW. How? It just sounds, or should I say, feels different. Just like you said, there is a distinct difference between your own voice and someone else's. In God's case, you've got to know what the difference is. Search for it, seek it.

reply to post by Hydroman


The problem with contemporary modern Christianity is that it is so devoid of sanctity and spirituality. For the most part it's rationalistic "Bible study" as opposed to the liturgical worship of ancient Christians (the Bible even talks about Paul praying the Hours). Anything that is felt is a psychological trip like the "Altar Call", the group hypnosis of a "Jesus camp", or frantic emotionalism and the release of social inhibitions in the case of Charismatic practices (speaking in tongues and such). What happened when Luther took off his cassock and put on the scholar's cap was a dramatic shift away from the mystery of the Ecclesia toward scholasticism and rationalism. I don't entirely blame Luther for this, seeing as he still professed the presence of Christ in the Eucharist (different from the Aristotlean doctrine of the transubstantiation and actually closer to Orthodoxy), but it opened doors for worse problems. Frank Herbert nails the source of the problem very well in the phrase "each revolution bears with it the seeds of its own destruction". After Luther's reformation became a transformation, the floodgates were opened and with it came Calvin and Zwingli who are the true culprits of the deadness of contemporary western Christianity. Holy Mysteries (sacraments in the west, I could explain the difference in implications, but it would take forever) were divorced from their mysticism and became simply symbols with no power to save; just empty rituals and ordinances. Slowly, little by little all liturgical structure and ties to ancient Christianity leaked out of the Churches with each reforming fad. In the end you are left with scholasticism, Aristotlean logic, and four bare walls and a long winded sermon. On the left, you have the people who deny all sanctity and authority of doctrine (social gospel), and on the right you have the fundamentalists appalled by the death of spirituality and starving for spirituality where very little is left (it makes them cranky). So the ultimate problem of this divorce of mysticism from ritual and liturgy, regarding it as "hocus pocus" (which came about as a dimunitive of the Latin "This is my body" Hoc est corpus) is that not only has it left modern Christianity so banal and boring that it requires entertainers to keep butts in pews, but it has separated man from God. When you use psychological trips and mass hypnosis to create collective positive emotion then you associate emotion with spirituality and you truly do not know God.

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Highlander64
Hydro bro you have had a lot of fine folks attend to your thread and answer your questions

People who have only good in mind, and wish to help, not just you, but others

you have shown courage, you have given, you have helped others,

Dear Highlander64,

The post you made that began as above was simply perfect. I was so touched by what and how you said it. It says that all things should be from love and I truly saw your love in your post to Hydroman. Be well.

Thanks and creds to you! - we're all trying to help eh?

Originally posted by AQuestion
Adulterers are saved, murderers are saved and gays are saved. In the same way, not all of any group is saved if there are members of that group who reject a love of all, those members are not saved.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

reply to post by KamiKazeKenji


Does this spirit only inhabit humans? Or does it perhaps inhabit all living things? Everything physically exists, from electricity to gravity, it exists as a thing. A spirit were it to exist must also exist just as gravity, photons and quarks do. Any emotions or thoughts are completely physical. The emotions are chemicals composed of atoms pumping through our bodies. Our thoughts are electromagnetic impulses charging through neurons inside our skulls. Please do not mistake "feelings inside my body" as a "spiritual entity contacting me." Everything is one, but not in the sense of an invisible spiritual connection. Everything is one in the sense that every atom in the universe is connected by gravity. There is a gravitational pull between you and your computer. You are connected to your computer through gravity.

Explain to me what a spirit is, and how you communicate to the creator "in spirit".

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by AQuestion
Adulterers are saved, murderers are saved and gays are saved. In the same way, not all of any group is saved if there are members of that group who reject a love of all, those members are not saved.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

Dear Hydroman,

Shame on you, shame on you for saying these people go to hell. You quote the bible out of context, all can be saved. You quoted earlier that the path was narrow again implying that people are denied salvation; but, you miss all of the quotes about salvation. Why do you focus on keeping people out of heaven rather than finding a way to save all. Someone brought up a quote from the bible where Jesus said that it was as hard for a rich man to get to heaven as it was for a camel to pass through a needle. The bible does say that; but, they completely ignored the finish to that statement which says that through God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. What man believes to be condemned is by your bias, God can save all, why do you refuse to know that and condemn those who sin when in fact we are all sinners?

By the way, the Pastor friend that I have been working with for the last two weeks is gay and leads a mission to gay hispanics, he is also a cracker, midwestern and as white as you can be. He spent 15 years of his life in central and south america as a missionary. I really thought you would not quote such a thing without at least explaining how you didn't believe in those things. You are a jerk.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
reply to post by KamiKazeKenji

 

Does this spirit only inhabit humans? Or does it perhaps inhabit all living things? Everything physically exists, from electricity to gravity, it exists as a thing. A spirit were it to exist must also exist just as gravity, photons and quarks do. Any emotions or thoughts are completely physical. The emotions are chemicals composed of atoms pumping through our bodies. Our thoughts are electromagnetic impulses charging through neurons inside our skulls. Please do not mistake "feelings inside my body" as a "spiritual entity contacting me." Everything is one, but not in the sense of an invisible spiritual connection. Everything is one in the sense that every atom in the universe is connected by gravity. There is a gravitational pull between you and your computer. You are connected to your computer through gravity.

Dear Dystopiaphiliac,

If everything that is came from a thought, if everything that is was created by a God, then everything that is, is partially a thought. Every thought comes from a being of feeling, emotion and therefore everything that is, is an emotion. I am sorry if I said this too complicated. Be well.

Originally posted by AQuestion

Dear Dystopiaphiliac,

If everything that is came from a thought, if everything that is was created by a God, then everything that is, is partially a thought. Every thought comes from a being of feeling, emotion and therefore everything that is, is an emotion. I am sorry if I said this too complicated. Be well.

I do think I understand for the most part (i have a LOT of trouble trying to put my thoughts into words). Well, I'm actually quite confused. My view of the universe is that something, I have no idea what (whether it be living or nonliving), started the big bang. I believe that we are more or less "organic computers." Everything we experience is done so by our brains. If we didn't have brains we wouldn't feel emotions, and we wouldn't have thoughts. I have a lot of trouble trying to explain what I mean. Carl Sagan's thoughts were probably not dissimilar to my own. Nobody can convey my meaning better than him.

If you were to do one more thing before you died I would urge you that it be to watch this video:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac


Dear Dystopiaphiliac,

I will watch the video. Where we disagree is easy to see, it is whether or not matter creates thought or thought creates matter. The only think we can know is that we think, that we are emotions responding to and interacting with thought, ergo, I believe thought creates matter. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion


The idea of thought creating matter isn't farfetched. The leading intellectual minds of quantum physics believe that what exists could possibly exist only because we do. Because we are here to experience this reality, reality exists for us to experience. Before entering this thread and posting I would have never known you existed. Because I came to ATS you are now a part of my life. This universe has many wonders to be discovered and you and I will be long dead before any small portion of them will be made.

By "what exists could possibly exist only because we do," I mean "we" as in any life that exists anywhere in reality.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
reply to post by AQuestion

 

The idea of thought creating matter isn't farfetched. The leading intellectual minds of quantum physics believe that what exists could possibly exist only because we do. Because we are here to experience this reality, reality exists for us to experience. Before entering this thread and posting I would have never known you existed. Because I came to ATS you are now a part of my life. This universe has many wonders to be discovered and you and I will be long dead before any small portion of them will be made.

Dear Dystopiaphiliac,

And as my dear Sherlock Holmes said, "and therein is the rub". Both sentience and the material exist, which came first may not matter as much as the fact that both do exist and both therefore are eternal. What to do with the eternal? You deny the eternal; but, there it sits and cannot be avoided. Some seek to prove that the material is not real and some to prove that the sentient is not real; but, we all know that both are real and therefore eternal. If it existed for a second, it is eternal because it can be and was, therefore, it will be again. I love spiritual questions.

Mate your a trolling on people's beliefs,faith is exactly that faith! I think this argument is solved on that alone(Faith).
Oh and your faith is weak is it not?

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by AQuestion

 

yes, that reminds me of saul/paul.

god knocked him off his horse and spoke to him.

converted him from a persecutor of christians to what we know him now.

someone can elaborate more on his life.

if god calls you, it won't be easy but he will be by your side.

sorry, i am not an expert on this subject, just a lowly believer.

Dear fooks,

You understood what I meant. Let me say there are no experts and the people we treat as experts frequently turn out to have hidden agendas or just be wrong. Don't you think the best person to reach out to firm atheists is and ex-firm atheist. He already knows the questions he needs to answer. That is called conservation of effort. God talking to someone is the biggest knock, knock joke in the world. I really like the skit by Bill Cosby about God talking to him, rather relevant to this thread. I think I will post a link.

You Tube - Bill Cosby, Noah

lol! well acquainted with that skit, i think that is from his "why is there air" lp.

"what's an ark!"

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Hmmm....'pride'

Do you mean "loving and trusting in yourself?'

Yep, religion does teach AGAINST that......

Self-respect? No, I mean loving myself and thinking I'm more important than the ones around me. That I am at the center of the universe.

Originally posted by Dystopiaphiliac
reply to post by KamiKazeKenji

 

Does this spirit only inhabit humans? Or does it perhaps inhabit all living things? Everything physically exists, from electricity to gravity, it exists as a thing. A spirit were it to exist must also exist just as gravity, photons and quarks do. Any emotions or thoughts are completely physical. The emotions are chemicals composed of atoms pumping through our bodies. Our thoughts are electromagnetic impulses charging through neurons inside our skulls. Please do not mistake "feelings inside my body" as a "spiritual entity contacting me." Everything is one, but not in the sense of an invisible spiritual connection. Everything is one in the sense that every atom in the universe is connected by gravity. There is a gravitational pull between you and your computer. You are connected to your computer through gravity.

and then?

current thought is that it is not gravity.

that's why you don't fall through the sidewalk from 25 stories.

eta; well not completely, might bust it up some but.....

Originally posted by AQuestion

Dear Dystopiaphiliac,

And as my dear Sherlock Holmes said, "and therein is the rub". Both sentience and the material exist, which came first may not matter as much as the fact that both do exist and both therefore are eternal. What to do with the eternal? You deny the eternal; but, there it sits and cannot be avoided. Some seek to prove that the material is not real and some to prove that the sentient is not real; but, we all know that both are real and therefore eternal. If it existed for a second, it is eternal because it can be and was, therefore, it will be again. I love spiritual questions.

I agree with you, entirely. This is almost along the lines of a cyclic universe that everything that can exist does exist but it currently takes the form of one thing. 100 years from now it might be in the form of something else. I am a human right now, but when I die my body will decompose into the Earth and become as dirt is.