On Ego Death.

reply to post by Imhotepsol


Yes, I have come across various components of what can be called the "Ego programming" however, in reality it is a complex web of entities or "system demons" and various other spirits that are "trapped in the program" - the same energy or entity provides the voice for various temptations, accusations, complaints, vulnerabilities, denial, hatred, and in general confusion.

I have identified some of the key components:

The "clown"
It "tempts" children to misbehave
When they think of others it tempts them to question if they deserve it more
It is incessant in asking "but why"

The "victim"
This one is a woman, a symbol of a female
It encourages, especially in women -
revenge, spite, envy
And in men it generally creates -
guilt, frustration.

The "father"
This is "the watcher"
It encourages - dependence,
false-identification
Fear of the un-known or "unseeable"

Each of these has a positive and a negative component,
alternates as positive when in a negative state and negative
when in a positive state.

reply to post by kacou


You have said that we are not born perfect and i'm sorry i have to disagree. This is what organized religions would have us believe. They say that they can help you stop being bad and can make you good. This assumption is a false belief. It is this that makes us think we are bad, if you think you are bad and have to become worthy then you will act unloving to yourself and others. This is the judgement you have accepted as true, if you try to be good then you will expect others to try to be good.
What would the world be like if we could accept ourselves unconditionally? Love ourselves, warts and all.
You are a perfect expression of oneness and to say otherwise is an insult to God.
Be thankful for all that is.

It is only the ego that wants to mend everything, the ego is deluded. It is not capable of seeing beauty, it only sees imperfection.

Originally posted by Jdawg9909
If we destroy the ego totally, then we cease to exist as an individual.

What about the concept of mastering ourselves? That is saying to be the best that we can be. To live up to our fullest potential and accomplish what we were set out here to do.

After all, we are all unique individuals for a reason. There is no denying that each of us have a distinct personality, just as our DNA is all unique.

Without the ego, we are all the same, we are not individuals, but as ourselves cease to exist, we are meaningless. I will agree that at a certain level we are all connected, whether you call in through mass consciousness or lifeforce. But I do not see destroying the ego as something beneficial. Rather I see it as giving your will and power away to nothingness.

In a sense, destroying the ego is a form of spiritual and metaphysical suicide. You are in essence killing yourself.

There is no "destroying the ego" because there is no ego to destroy. Our belief in an "ego" is a misidentification of reality as it truly is. All that can be done is to transcend the ignorance of our belief in an ego. And this is the very pinnacle of spirituality. By doing this, in some sense you are right that it is "killing yourself" because you realize that there never was a "self" to begin with. But this does not negate individuality, at least altogether, instead it only redefines it to its true meaning.

Individuality and personality are not the same. Individuality is a series of interconnected processes that, working together, give the appearance of being a single, separated whole. In another sense, it is an interrelated part of an ever-changing, impermanent whole. It has to do with the material world. Personality, on the other hand, has to do with the mental world, and it is the egoic explanation of individuality. It is a belief that these parts, or ever-changing thoughts of the mind, are permanent phenomena that can be categorized and labeled as a stagnant whole, a "personality". Therefore, like the "ego", it too can be seen as sort of an illusion.

Peace.

This is William Samuel talking about the giving up of ego:
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


There two things:
My English is so bad or my thoughts are not reflecting my writing.
Ether way, I never said we are born bad..and the perfection I was referring is the ignorance
What I have try to write is that there is no truthness in trying to kill the ego.(this doesn't mean that I advocate ego selfish life).
We are born with ignorance and we have our ego to reach some kind of understanding why this ignorance is so prevailing in the large majority of human.
You talk about oneness and unconditional love...this is why this kind of talk are so inconsistent with the first....unconditional love is unconditional and impartial so the ego has a place also to be recognise and not slaughtered like a vermin...deal with your ego because you are part of the physical world.
Transform your ego into the love you are that is the challenge...you can meditate as much as you want...when finish you enter the dominion of the ego, make him be your docile servant.

reply to post by kacou


Ego can not be killed for it is an illusion, it is the illusion. The ego will depart when you see it was not real.
It does not have to be treated poorly or hated, just understood. When the false self is seen to be the trouble maker, the 'one' that recognizes this is the true Self.
It is the act of observing the ego (false self) that makes it evapourate.
The 'one' that is observing is not ego bound. It is free.
Not of the physical world, spirit.
Being.

reply to post by kacou


LifeIsEnergy answered this far more succinctly then I could. There is no ego, what is deemed to be the ego is a psychic conglomerate of experiences we've undergone and determined a relationship to. It's not a real and stable 'thing' but an illusion to be transformed and transcended.

It's the product of our society and our world - we can see in other tribes with very little contact with our civilization that they have very different ego structures to ours, some even have none that we would recognize as an ego.

The ego is the crystallization of the currents of the time and how the individual in turn relates to them. That produces the temporal image we confuse for the fixed ego. By changing the relation we change the ego until eventually it become malleable enough to be used as the tool it is supposed to be instead of a limitation we place upon ourselves.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Exactly

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Thanks for adding to this LifeisEnergy, you've stated it better then I ever could. Thank you.

Being says 'I am'.
Ego says 'I am a banker, I am a house wife' it is the label on the end.
You are none of these 'things'.
Ego traps you in the physical world where there are sharp edges.
Edges and borders. Countries and religions. Them and us.

Being is free to be.
Free to be anything and everything.
How can it be possible not to fit in.

Originally posted by Imhotepsol
reply to post by Akragon

 

A better start is "love your neighbour because he is your self".

I couldnt help but notice an ego flare up here. This is just ego transference from self to another.....to preserve self.

The original "love your neighbour as yourself" is markedly a different idea altogether. Why? It teaches diffrently. The focus is granting equal status to someone that, if you are honest, my not rate the treatment or at least you know this person isnt like you at all and yet you are to afford them the same love and respect you grant to self. This can be very tryng.

Originally posted by Imhotepsol
reply to post by kacou

 

It's the product of our society and our world - we can see in other tribes with very little contact with our civilization that they have very different ego structures to ours, some even have none that we would recognize as an ego.

Some even have none...example please....i never heard this in my life.
Every thing that you wrote is right to an extent.

Furthermore reading carefully all my post and you will see that my approach is directly related to deal with the ego...the ego as an illusion...then deal with your illusion of the ego.
I mention observation, which I practice every second of the day but I feel that my post are not recognize for what they really are…another illusion perhaps!!!
The thread is called Ego Death…you can’t be more dualistic about this with this kind of title.
So the words there are legitimate even if the concept is an illusion.

This all smacks of whatever it's that's opposite of Solipsism.

I did some research and found this:
en.wikipedia.org...

That's similar, but I don't think it catches this entirely. It's not enough like a philosophy.

The people here deny the self instead of the external world. It's as though the rest of the world is sure to exist but the mind, the self, is the delusion that's to be rejected. In solipsism, the self is accepted, whereas the world outside is rejected. So it would seem to be just the opposite.

I think the truth is closer to this rather than the walking undead:
en.wikipedia.org...

It's my guess that people infected by this are probably social in habit and relate rather well to communities and feel foreign and removed when alone because they have not yet developed a strong sense of self. Perhaps they've been hurt when alone or maybe they have benefited from their friends or communities greatly; so much that they feel dependent on the collective mind and do not trust the self. But since I am not an expert, I suppose I should not dig too deeply.

Imagine that your self was a toddler, and on your first trek you stumbled as though you were on a bike for the first time. You might get hurt and then run back into the house for safety. I imagine that this is, maybe in part, what some of the people here have experienced.

Remember, with great power comes great responsibility. But mistakes happen too. The self is something that must mature and learn. It has to grow to be independent and capable. It won't happen overnight. Many questions must be asked and many things must be directly felt.

Atheists, for example, do have morals. Not because of god, but because of a developing self. People that're dependent on god for moral intersections, probably have not developed a strong self. Thus, on their own anyway, they fail to act morally and quickly return to the collective.

I think society should have both the collective and the self. Society needs stability: the collective offers this. But it also needs innovation and revolution: the self offers this. It's mutual in nature.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Some do say deny the self and accept the world and others say deny world and accept self. It is the same really, however it is a very good point you are making. The belief that the world and myself are separate is the illusion.
So really both disappear, it the realization that it is all one. The world is not denied as such and the self is not denied as such, what happens is it just reveals itself to be 'this'. Suchness, being, isness.
It is the freedom from the world and the false self.
Presence is all there is.

reply to post by Logarock


Every one is the same thing in a different form. We're about as individual as cells in our bodies are. That's the essence of treating people like your self. They are you but the product of different experiences, we'd all like to think we're better but thats the ego talking, put in someone else's situation you'd be surprised how many of us would take similar courses of action.

It's about trying to see past the differences to the sameness, the basic humanity we all share in. It doesn't matter to me if there are amoral psychopaths who just don't get it, they're still me, just not where I am yet. It's a learning experience and a trip we're all on the way the same place using different roads

reply to post by kacou


Well the Essenes or some of the early Gnostic sects would be good examples as would some of the more advanced modern Buddhist sects (within the closed monastic community) would also be examples of ego-less communities.

reply to post by Imhotepsol


Courses of action are very personal even if it looks like a mob mentality at work.

"But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man".

Knowing whats in man as we treat others as ourselves, knowing what is in us even isnt so much for me anyway as looking down or needing to feel better about self and ego. But rather it is an exasperation knowing that many of our good works are like pearl before swine. And what are we swine giving pearls to swine? Swine with seeing and hearing restored?

He had compasion on the crowds and feed them out of His power and then wished them to depart becouse they only followed for the bread and fish. So in one moment they become like swine following for food but not discerning.

It looks like the blind can lead the blind off the path and into the ditch but those that see and yet do not see for some reason cant follow a man with clear vision.

Originally posted by Imhotepsol
reply to post by kacou

 

Well the Essenes or some of the early Gnostic sects would be good examples as would some of the more advanced modern Buddhist sects (within the closed monastic community) would also be examples of ego-less communities.

The Essen have been well romanticise by new age guru after the discovery of the dead sea scroll. Many Jewish scholars doubt the existence of this community a long with the authoring of the scroll by them.
Any way , I will not now argue the Buddhist sect veracity of they egoless life style...I have been there, not for spiritual reason but for my work.
I thank you for the rhetoric and wish you well.