Repeal minimum wage says the Grouch

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

People have the right to contract without any unwarranted government intrusion. You suggest that removing minimum wage requirements would bring about abject poverty for millions.

So are you for collective bargaining and unions? Because without them, a single person obviously stands ZERO chance at successfully negotiating a contract if minimum wages are gone...especially if they lack higher education.

USA prospered around the civil war directly because of the industrial revolution which was highly dependant on fossil fuels/abundant energy (particularly coal, and then oil in the 1900's). Not to mention it was a country that was like a clear canvas with natural resources and materials. Minimum wage was a non issue.

reply to post by MrXYZ

So essentially you want he government to carry the cost of lack in salary once minimum wages are gone...which essentially means you want the tax payer to make up for what the corporations don't want to make up. Sure, sounds great and makes total sense

Yes. Where is the problem? If companies want to pay lower wages, they will be taxed more for NIT They wont get away

Increase of welfare expenditures due to some lowering of wages and NIT welfare compensation of those employed workers would be less than decrease of expenditures caused by decrease in unemployment enabled by now criminalised below minimum wage jobs becoming legal.

Criminalising voluntary contract between two entities is immoral. NIT is far more moral than criminalisation of voluntary low wages.

But people can hire below minium wage now and it is called sub contracting. People often prefer working a typical job over sub contracting work because they are guarnteed a minuim wage for pay. People often are willing to give up some freedoms for this. It is not fair to allow people to work and give up those certian freedoms yet not have a standard of pay.
More people would do sub contracting work if it was more profitable. With sub contracting a person makes his or her own schedule and can agree to sign a contract or not. The contract can change but if the person refuses to go by it then he or she is no longer considered a sub contracter. A person is free to have as many contracts as he or she wants unless they sign a no compete clause which means he or she can not work for others in the same industry. I only do sub contracting work so I can have more freedoms I get disablity but If I did not get disablity then I would work at a tradtional job.

reply to post by MrXYZ

So are you for collective bargaining and unions? Because without them, a single person obviously stands ZERO chance at successfully negotiating a contract if minimum wages are gone.

So why work? I would just not work in such case, and stay only on NIT income. Where is the problem?

Any rational person will do this. So employers would have to raise payments if they want the job done. Its a self-regulating system

reply to post by MrXYZ


Actually I have a Masters degree in Psychology and a bachelors in communications. I also have an associates in business. All these degrees have taught me the fine art of negotation. which I am quite good at. I have been able to come up with really good negotations but if people are not willing to neogotate. Then no matter much education a person has it won't matter.
In my time I have come up with so many solutions that were perfect compromises but the companies always want it all their way. Intelligence and education does not get you far anymore. It used to. IN the 1990s I was able to get a job above minuim wage with the hours I wanted it has all changed since then.
it is either the companys way or nothing. Sad.

reply to post by Maslo

If companies want to pay lower wages, they will be taxed more...

Yes, I'm sure that will work...because it works so well now and there's almost no tax evasion, right? You realize that as long as there's corporate lobbyists, tax loopholes won't be fixed. Just look at Exxon. And you expect corporations to make up that part? Really?

What will happen is that the middle class will essentially carry the burden of making up for the poor, and the rich corporate fatcats will get even richer as they save on salaries. Great plan

Negative taxes won't ever work as long as it's sooooo easy to buy politicians...

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

So are you for collective bargaining and unions? Because without them, a single person obviously stands ZERO chance at successfully negotiating a contract if minimum wages are gone.

So why work? I would just not work in such case, and stay only on NIT income. Where is the problem?

Any rational person will do this. So employers would have to raise payments if they want the job done. Its a self-regulating system

Or they could just ship even more jobs abroad

Which outcome is more likely you think?

Originally posted by Maslo
Minimum wage should be repealed, it only increases unemployment. Negative income tax based welfare system is the answer for low wages, not pointless and illogical minimum wage law.

I would love to read an explanation of how that works out that uses facts and reality. No AM radio talking points please.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Yes, abolishing of minimum wage and substituting it with NIT welfare also must be prerequisited by closing all tax loopholes and tax persons and corporations the same, and all means of income the same (wage, profit, interest, rent..). That goes without saying.

[You can fine or repremind a company for certian behaviors but at the end of the day that company will find ways around it. We just need to solve our illegal immgration and outsourcing problem this will bring jobs back

reply to post by Undertough


I am gonna make a thread about it in a few days.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Actually I have a Masters degree in Psychology and a bachelors in communications. I also have an associates in business. All these degrees have taught me the fine art of negotation. which I am quite good at. I have been able to come up with really good negotations but if people are not willing to neogotate. Then no matter much education a person has it won't matter.

That is the worst grammar I have ever seen from someone who was also bragging about how educated they were. How did you do in High School English? I just have to ask because the entire post is about how smart you are and yet the entire first paragraph is written so poorly I would send it back to the 7th grader that submitted it and tell him to start completely over.

Just saying. If you are going to brag about how educated you are, appear it.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Undertough

 

I am gonna make a thread about it in a few days.

That is your dodge? Something told me I would be left wanting after asking you to explain what you posted.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Like minimum wage law does not have exactly the same effect, but magnified even more.

Minimum wage = Great idea on paper although abused by employers. In britain the minimum wage has NEVER been raised higher then the inflation rate per year, Therefore the standard of living drops and poverty is on the rise. This is how you end up with the dole generation - Why bust your ass 37.5hrs a week when you can be unemployed and still live on practically a FT minimum wage?
But ofcourse, it is the working classes fault - They should accept their lot in life and work 60 years on the breadline so that someone else can work for about 40 years, live comfortably and retire earlier in life because they've had a bigger disposible income throughout.
It doesnt help that the CONServatives are waging war against social mobility - Give it 10years, even if someone from the working class DID want to work hard in education to have a better life, they wont be able to, Thanks cameron, your a top twat

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
well, since mexicans are going back to mexico, don't worry david, you can come mow my lawn and I'll pay you $3 an hour

If I'm willing to do it for $3 an hour, I should be able to. Of course, I have to admit that I'm not, but my teenager might be.

What would your daugher do for $10 an hour??????????????

reply to post by Undertough


en.wikipedia.org...

A negative income tax is intended to create a single system that would not only pay for government, but would also fulfill the social goal of making sure that there was a minimum level of income for all. It is theorized that, with an NIT, the need for minimum wage, food stamps, welfare, social security programs and other government assistance programs could be eliminated, thus reducing the administrative effort and cost to a fraction of what it is under the current system, as well as eliminating the perverse incentives created by these overlapping aid programs, e.g. when a minimum wage worker who earns a little more nets out with less income because he is newly ineligible for aid. The worker is stuck in a welfare trap and has no incentive to seek higher wages.

A NIT does not disrupt low-wage markets, whereas a minimum wage makes certain very low end jobs impossible (as anyone whose labour is valued at less than the minimum wage must be unemployed). A NIT would therefore increase the availability of cheap labour, which would enable businesses to do domestically some of the work which they would otherwise have to outsource to other countries.

There is also answer to MrXYZ outsourcing fears.

reply to post by Undertough


Excuse me that was not my point at all to brag. I was trying to qualify my remarks. This is totally off topic. I am writer so therefore I know the rules of grammar. I am not on here trying to write an essay or a story. I am just sharing my thoughts and ideas. You totally missed point of my post. My point is education does not always make a difference. Shesh!