Repeal minimum wage says the Grouch

Originally posted by williegreen
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

No, I am saying that with the illegal immigration problem you can't have a level playing field. And yes, companies are in it to make a profit. But they also realize that the cost of training new employees is more than the cost of retaining employees. So they can pay as little as they want, the business down the street will pay a little more to attract the good people. Besides, minimum wage work should be looked at as a stepping stone not as a life long solution.

Stepping stone as in China...where people earn crap all their life with a few exceptions?

YEEEES Repeal minimum wage!!!

While were at it,
lets bring back Child Labor,
hell lets bring back slave labor.

BRING out the whips, get out the chains!!!

Originally posted by hillynilly
YEEEES Repeal minimum wage!!!

While were at it,
lets bring back Child Labor,
hell lets bring back slave labor.

BRING out the whips, get out the chains!!!

The GOP is waaaaay ahead of you: LINK

So not only do we have a huge unemployment rate, they now want us to compete with children. Why? Because kids cost less, and those politicians' corporate sponsors obviously want that. It's really not all that different from repealing minimum wage. Maybe we could move back in time and introducee slavery again too

Funny how the people ranting the most about China are doing the best at turning the US into China

I would love to hire some folks for $3.00 per hour! Man I could really get some serios stuff done! Pyramid anyone?

P.S.
Most Chinese workers earns a comparible wage with the US worker, but works an 80+ hour week to do so.

In 1990 I made $5 an hour and 400 hours of labor would have gotten me 1 acre of land.

How many hours do YOU currently have to work to buy 1 acre of land?

America was wealthier 21 years ago. We're poorer today.

The majority of America will never pay off their homes before they die.

If you can't afford to pay minimum wage, you can't afford a business. Sell your property and go get a job if you can't afford to pay people. There are plenty of entrepreneurs who can run a business effectively while paying their employees livable wages. Many of those are local companies.

Who the heck wants to work for a company who can't manage its assets well enough to pay their business partners?

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
I would love to hire some folks for $3.00 per hour! Man I could really get some serios stuff done! Pyramid anyone?

P.S.
Most Chinese workers earns a comparible wage with the US worker, but works an 80+ hour weeks to do so.

edit on 2-8-2011 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

Wrong!

The GDP per capita in China is $7,519 while the US is at $47,284. GDP per capita is a good measure as there is at least some correlation between salaries and GDP. Calling salaries comparable is a JOKE I hope. I've working in Asia for a year, and the salaries are NOT comparable, unless you live in Hong Kong or have a very good position. The average citizen earns jack # compared to people in the US. But you're correct when it comes to the longer working hours.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


The Minimum Wage is one of many ways Progressives keep poor Americans voting for them. Progressives know that there is no way anyone can live off of the minimum wage, let alone support a family, and they also know that a minimum wage worker will more than likely need federal assistance via welfare, WIC, food stamps, section 8 housing, etc... Progressives use scare tactics and demagoguery to convince the poor that if they don't vote for them then the mean old Republicans or Conservatives will take away their "benefits" or "entitlements". The truth is that if there were no minimum wage that businesses would have to compete for employees. As it stands right now it doesn't matter if you work at McDonald's or Burger King, because they both pay the same, but if they had to compete for employees they would be forced to offer more money and better benefits than the competition. To think that a business would pay someone 50 cents an hour if there were no minimum wage is absurd, and if a business tried to do that they would be out of business in no time because no one would work there. All minimum wage does is put more money in the pockets of corporations to be donated to progressive causes at a later date. Think about it... if politicians really cared about the minimum wage worker then why isn't the minimum wage $15.00 an hour? Because if it were then there would be less of a chance that the minimum wage worker would need to rely on the federal government for support, and may vote the other way. The Minimum wage should be repealed immediately, it is just another hindrance to poor people to make a better life for themselves put in place by the very politicians that they vote for, thereby perpetuating the problem.

If anyone really assesses what has happened here in America I think you will find it very interesting to note
that, after the elite bankers ("the wealthiest") scammed this country the response here is to hack at the pee ons,
the infirm, old and the hour slaves. Doesn't anyone else see this bizarre call and response??? Billionaires destroy America's financial strength and America responds by punishing the little guy, the people without D.C lobbyist
support.

America is not going to improve by pulling the rug out on millions of people...

As a gesture to prove the viability of this proposal, I ask that members in favor of ending the minimum wage
list some nations that prosper without minimum wage standards. I think no body can find any examples, because
it creates abject poverty... When will Americans realize that the little guys, armed with more money is good for business???

Originally posted by 11andrew34
Strange that in 5 pages of debate, not once was the sensible alternative mentioned.

In a 'globalized' world labor standards for the home country but not for imported goods make little sense... [color=gold] so you either repeal them...or have a tariff.

Tariff...is it a dirty word now? ~Five pages and nobody has even said it once.

/shock

/looks twice

/admits it

Yes. This is a thread win right here.

I have to admit that somehow the word Tariff has been erased from my mind. Thank you for pointing out that this is an effective way of resisting countries without a minimum wage. This just enhances the tradgedy of it all for small business people in America. We live in free trade zones coupled with predatory government regulations while at the same instance other countries get an even playing field but don't have our restrictions.

You're absolutely right.
Tariff used to be an effective tool.
Five pages of heated debat an no one even mentioned it.


David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Yeah, great idea. Let the poorest members of society suffer even more so that the richest ones can get richer. Good one grouchy, looks like you're onto a winner!

You can't get rid of minimum wage and not expect companies to exploit their employees. Look at all the CEOs that got raises even after they cut their company's work force, cut benefits, stopped/reduced raises, or even reduced their pay.

Most companies look out for one thing, their stock holders, not their employees. Look at the contractors that Apple has for the Iphone. They treat their employees like they are in prison. The bigger the work force, the easier it is to exploit them.

Iphone China

And of course the opposite is true as well. But only if there is a demand for you.

Observers speculated that the move to mechanise the production line could be a result of rapidly rising wages in South China, where a shortage of workers has resulted in demands for more money and more benefits. Some factories have reported wages rising by 30 per cent to 40 per cent this year, making it harder for them to turn a profit on cheap, mass production.

www.telegraph.co.uk

I wonder how many of those willing to lower the min. wage of others, would volunteer to have their wages cut.

Hypocrites!! Letting their ideology get in the way of their common sense!

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by davidgrouchy

 

The truth is that if there were no minimum wage that businesses would have to compete for employees.

The truth is, this notion is just Elitist/globalist propaganda to save business's a buck. There is very little way to compete for something a moron can do. Please list a country, here on ATS that has abolished the minimum wage
or has no minimum wage, so we can discuss the practical viability of your assertion. You can't BTW... The wealthiest nations on Earth have minimum wage. The Anti Human ignorance you guys spout will be defeated,
thank god

For those who can think clearly, notice that if you ever pass such laws or engage in social spending, the government can never stop, because the people will get used to it. That means it is impossible to slash such things, meaning the government's size will NEVER shrink. The only way to keep the government's size and power as small as possible is to actively resist implementing such ideas in the first place. Sure, initially the idea will be resisted by those who are hurt, say the displaced workers, but when they die the generation after will only see it as a good thing, because they were not the ones displaced, and those that are unemployed never got displaced to know the fallacy firsthand and don't see it as a factor why they are unemployed.

Minimum wage should be repealed, it only increases unemployment. Negative income tax based welfare system is the answer for low wages, not pointless and illogical minimum wage law.

reply to post by Maslo

Negative income tax based welfare system is the answer for low wages...

So essentially you want he government to carry the cost of lack in salary once minimum wages are gone...which essentially means you want the tax payer to make up for what the corporations don't want to make up. Sure, sounds great and makes total sense

I really feel that people will not even work for $3 or $4 an hour because it can not support a family. In china workers make about 30 cents an hour. A lot of the workers in those sweat shops live in shared rooms above the factories. I think illegal immegration would still be a problem because americans would take welfare which would be more. A lot of americans are plan feed up with the system overall. Repealing the minuim wage would make illegal immirgations worse and unemployment would be a lot higher. Regardless of people working or not more people would need government assistance. Even high paid employees wages would go down. The reason the minium wage was enstated was because companies took advantage of people.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


You make a damn good point,
but I DO NOT TRUST
what the companies would do to
people after the minimum wage was
repealed..

Illegals work for next to nothing because they can
not say anything about it...

What do you think about that?

Interesting thing about the minimum wage debate....

Every time a proposal is made to raise it, conservatives and big business, led by the Chamber of Commerce, drum the beat about how a raise would hurt business, adversely impact the economy, etc, etc...

Total B.S. >>> Why?

On the labor side of things, for about 100 years until the mid-1970s, the USA was indeed the place to emigrate to for employment opportunities, to save toward owning a house, to have the chance to educate one's kids... "The American Dream" The reason for this is that jobs were plentiful and wages increased consistently year after year after year. Businesses had no choice but to raise wages in order to attract labor, and to keep labor from going to higher paying competing jobs.

And during this time, even though wages increased yearly, the industrial base and the economy kept growing year by year.

What happened in the 1970s?

A number of things (beside oil price increase) but three major disruptors that impacted wages were:

1. the beginnings of computer and robotic automation
2. the shift of manufacturing by multi-national corps to cheap overseas production
3. the Women's Lib movement that opened the doors for tens of millions of women to enter the workforce

From this point, employers saw no need to increase wages on a yearly basis to keep up with the consumer price index (CPI) or other indices... Since then, we've seen CEO salaries steadily rise, but workers' wages remain relatively flat.

What absolutely baffles me is how the big business and conservative alarmists actually succeed in getting blue collar workers (mostly red state) to believe the B.S. and fight against wage increases against their very own best interests!

Go figure....