Why oh why do some many on ATS fight against logical explanation?

reply to post by bphi1908


As someone who truly would love to believe we have been visited by aliens, I would have to say, none of those cases are convincing to me. I am definitely still well one the side of the fence that these events have mundane explanations not so far away from what the "officials" say.

I approach from a somewhat biased perspective though, because I think there are many scientific factors that imply alien visitation is extremely unlikely, like the obvious difficulties traveling such outrageous distances, and the illogical idea that a race so advanced would crash their craft here, or allow themselves to be detected or seen by any means. There are other factors too, like the ineptness of the government - the idea that they could successfully cover up these events is unlikely in the extreme.

As far as the cases go, Project Mogul seems like a very good explanation for Roswell. As far as stories about alien bodies and so on, most of the witness statements are contradictory, they give different dates, different run-downs of events, and so on, and witness testimony is often appallingly unreliable, especially so long after the actual date of events.

The Phoenix lights, as has been mentioned, were obviously flares, and the triangle UFOs are probably coincidental unrelated accounts, misidentifying who knows what - quite possibly three planes flying in formation, which is a common cause of the "triangle UFO".

Rendlesham I am only semi-familiar with, but again, there seems to be a series of somewhat unrelated events being converged into one account. We shouldn't try to force one explanation to account for everything that happened, and that is perhaps the biggest mistake of the "officials" and why their explanations may seem silly at times. They should be taken for what they are, the attempt to explain an event that has already occurred, about which there is already a ton of confusion, and we're only in possession of a small portion of the facts. Not to mention the fact that obviously the officials love the confusion, and love that you think these events are caused by Aliens, as it allows them to tuck whatever really happened under the rug - classic disinformation, of which Roswell is a great example.

That's my two cents. I would love to be shown wrong or convinced otherwise.

reply to post by WhatAliens


What makes you think aliens landing here is illogical?

There are approximately 500,000,000 habitable planets in this galaxy alone. If just one of these planets had a civilization that is even a couple thousand years older than ours, I believe it is very probably that they have developed light speed travel by then. If one of those planets had a civilization that was a couple million years older, then I find it well within the realm of possibility that maybe they have found out how to utilize wormhole travel.

reply to post by Zeer0


it makes me sick to the gut that unless you have the craft itself
no one will believe what you have to share with others
i personaly have seen loads of strange lights in the sky at night
stars acting like they are playing tick or tag as my kids call it
one thing i can not put into words
and 3 in daylight but they never happend because those that
were not there say so,so ill keep the rest to myself
unless somebody else has had the same happen to them
and i find their thread

reply to post by humphreysjim


I see where you are coming from and while looking into UFOs in general skepticism is not only a good way to approach an individual case, it is necessary. But on the flip side of that coin you also have to be willing to accept that if all other explanations are dispelled than you do have a genuine UFO. This doesn't actually mean green men from another planet just unidentified flying object.

Your views on the Roswell incident are valid but if your going to say that witness testimony are flawed wouldn't you also agree that if over the course of 50 years of government explanations of Roswell the fact that their official position has changed several times makes them just as unreliable as witness testimony?

Claiming that space travel isn't achievable by a civilization we know nothing about based on human understanding of the laws of physics is at the very least pure speculation. I do not claim to know how aliens get here but I do believe that there is entirely too much evidence for alien visitation to say if we can't fly to other planets how could they? And this evidence goes back a LOT further than 1947.

The Phoenix lights, as has been mentioned, were obviously flares, and the triangle UFOs are probably coincidental unrelated accounts, misidentifying who knows what - quite possibly three planes flying in formation, which is a common cause of the "triangle UFO".

The were TWO distinct sightings that night and flares do not account for the sightings of a large low flying craft silently crossing the Phoenix area at around 8:30 PM that "blocked out the stars".

The flares, and they very may well have been flares, happened at 10 PM, seems odd that flares were dropped shortly after the first incident was reported doesn't it?

reply to post by bphi1908
Agreed on the flares, and it's not hard to think that they could be connected to the earlier incident in some way.
I don't think the dropping of flares over an urban area is common practice, so why??

reply to post by bphi1908


I do agree government testimony is extremely unreliable, I think they were certainly covering up, just not aliens. I think they enjoy the alien speculation, as it makes their cover up jobs a little simpler.

I just think eventually we hit close to home and got to an approximation of the truth about Roswell with Project Mogul. I keep an open mind on the matter though, and don't dismiss the possibility of aliens; certainly don't have all the answers. I eagerly await the day some evidence surfaces that convinces a staunch skeptic like me.

reply to post by WhatAliens


So what exactly is the "perfectly ordinary explanation" for the V-shaped, gun-metal gray, physical, silent, flying object seen by the Arizona governor and many others referred to as The Phoenix Lights?

www.youtube.com...

One might also ask why people choose to reject or ignore credible reports from multiple, reliable witnesses about such occurrences.

reply to post by WhatAliens


It's kind of strange I firmly believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. I believe in spirits/ghosts because of personal experiences. Alien life for me is a matter of logic. The universe is so vast I simply couldn't fathom tiny earth being the be all end all for life in the universe. But most of the UFO pictures and videos simply strike me as man made objects or explainable natural occurrences. Most ghost pictures strike me as misunderstood natural objects, camera effects or hoaxes. Just because most of the evidence out there seems explainable it doesn't mean that these other things don't exist.

The main problem is when you try to explain or debunk something people think of it as an attack on their beliefs or their credibility. People make mistakes and misinterpret things and because they don't realize it they defend their position rather than looking for other explanations. Not being open minded is not denying ignorance. Rather than looking at a video and going "It's a ghost" or "It's a spaceship", why not look for explanations of what it is? There are certain times when we can prove photos and videos are fake but for the most part the objects are up for interpretation. Some folks simply refuse to believe that it's more likely that it's dust rather than an orb or a mist rather than a ghost or an AWACS rather than a spaceship.

Conforming evidence to support your existing belief structure rather than looking at it for what it is just defies logic.

Originally posted by WhatAliens
"Dust you are, and to dust you will return" perfectly true in described modern scientific terms, but otherwise has no logic."

WHAT??????lmao

Read it again, I'm also bearing in mind you are the one that said the Bible aka bibble, was a "POS"

Originally posted by DrJay1975
I believe in spirits/ghosts because of personal experiences.

Conforming evidence to support your existing belief structure rather than looking at it for what it is just defies logic.

I've had my own experiences. It's quite a jump to go from having those experiences to being a believer in 'ghosts' or 'spirits'. I don't truly know what my experiences were, and I generally don't trust people who claim they have the answers.

www.youtube.com...

An excellent explanation of possible life in the universe by a guy much smarter than I am. If you guys have 9+ minutes it is worth your while.

Originally posted by TheFlash
reply to post by WhatAliens

 

So what exactly is the "perfectly ordinary explanation" for the V-shaped, gun-metal gray, physical, silent, flying object seen by the Arizona governor and many others referred to as The Phoenix Lights?

www.youtube.com...

One might also ask why people choose to reject or ignore credible reports from multiple, reliable witnesses about such occurrences.

edit on 2-8-2011 by TheFlash because: (no reason given)

Stealth craft, light than air hybrid vehicle, it is a perfectly acceptable explanation. There are many USAF bases in that general area.

reply to post by ManInAsia


Could be but what ever this craft was the public does not know about them. Im sure if these were the our Aircraft's they would tell. No harm in that

One should look at the strong probability of life (don't use the term 'alien life' as it is an arbitrary distinction) being common in the galaxy, previous posters have put up the numbers. Therefore it is highly likely that life from outside has visited us and might even have seeded life on earth in the form of microbes. Life arriving here could be directed by intelligence also, why not?

There is no problem with distance to travel around the galaxy, an advanced civilisation could spread through the galaxy in millions of years at half the speed of light. So through the old 'too remote' problem out the window, it's a non-issue when you consider the universe is something like 13 billion years old.

But don't confuse the two topics together, the scientific rationale with that of the UFO phenonemon, which is too polluted with wishful thinking.

Too many skeptics are just as quick to jump on the same few explanation as believers are to claim aliens.

If I saw a bird I had never seen before a believer would claim it a new species, a skeptic would call it an obvious chicken.

There seems to be very little middle ground.

I guess seeing is believing, and until you do all you are stuck with is chickens

Originally posted by TheOven

There seems to be very little middle ground.

I guess seeing is believing, and until you do all you are stuck with is chickens

There is plenty of middle ground there but it must be found within reason and common sense. And yes, seeing is believing, thats half the problem.

If a civilization survives long enough to create technology to jump from Galaxy to Galaxy, they could easily remain undetected. Galaxy to Galaxy is a long way, and unless they have a very very very long life cycle, they would have to use some mean of wormhole technology. And if they came to our planet, using wormhole technology I would assume they could just stay in their wormhole, or other dimension what have you, and remain undetected right in our skies basically. What is also interesting, the most distant edge of the Universe at 13.75 billion years, is all that we can observe, it could go farther...

We are advancing in our sciences in Space and on Earth, it's only a matter of time before we know more about this reality we live in.

It could very be with in reason that NASA is not lying and UFO's are complete fiction because not one actual legitimate sighting has ever occurred.

But we very well could be detected by ET's from another Galaxy and not even know it. From stars that are as big as our Solar System. Imagine how different their Gravity is compared to ours. Does science even know what would happen to ET's from a massively exotic gravity entering our solar system? Wouldn't they just seep into a different dimension?

I also believe there could be or was advanced life in our Solar System. We haven't explored the planets as thorough as we could, compared to our explorations on Earth.

There are so many mysteries to our Ancient past, evolution, the meaning of life, you can't seem to think otherwise.

Originally posted by ManInAsia
One should look at the strong probability of life (don't use the term 'alien life' as it is an arbitrary distinction) being common in the galaxy, previous posters have put up the numbers. Therefore it is highly likely that life from outside has visited us and might even have seeded life on earth in the form of microbes.

This is just misleading, and the statement hinges on so many assumptions. The truth is, we don't know the exact process that allowed life to spring into existence, so predicting how common life will be throughout the Universe is a wild guess at best. It could be exceedingly rare, and in fact, it's within the realm of possibility that life is such a fluke it happened once here on Earth, and that's it.

If life does exist elsewhere, it certainly does not follow that it neccessarily would:

a) exist in a timeframe close enough to ours to be able to interact with us, even if an intelligent species live 10 million years, it's a drop in the ocean Universally speaking
b) be intelligent
c) be able to crack interstellar travel at the kinds of distances required, if such a thing is even possible

No trained, respectable scientist would suggest it is highly likely we have been visited by alien life.

If your suggestions are accurate, and alien life is so common place, why did SETI not manage to make contact? I would recommend the book "The Eerie Silence" by Paul Davies for a sober look by someone working with SETI, who is truly in the know.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
To much TV and not enough real life.

Just like when kids think Bruce Lee was the worlds greatest martial artist instead of an actor. Sometimes the idea is way cooler than reality.

I believe in alien life somewhere in the universe. I just dont believe the fuzzy dots in the sky we keep seeing from youtube has anything to do with them.

edit on 1-8-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Bruce lee was not the worlds greatest martial artists, but he was a great martial artist. You don't have to fight in competitions to be known as a great martial artist. Lee was a teacher of martial artists, and a great one at that.

I will tell you the problem. There is belief on both sides. From the de-bunkers and the believers. With the de-bunkers, they are so desperate to not leave something unexplained, they give some rather stupid explanations for some sightings, and that is their belief talking there, not there "scientific mind"

I need evidence that some of these ufos are ET, but to dismiss the whole ufo phenomenon as explaind is rather stupid in my opinion. There is more than enough evidence that ufo's need firther investigation. If we get rid of the de-bunkers, and the hardcore believers (all running on belief) then maybe we can start trying to understand whats going on here.