Israel agrees to negotiate pre 67 lines

reply to post by gravitational


Right so Israel lived up to all its commitments? If you are occupyting another land through force, repruccusion should be expected. Take both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Exactly how am I twisting reality? I am coming to conclusions based on historical fact. I don't deny the Palestinians have blood on their hands and have and continue to commit atrocities, mostly now commited by Hamas. Yet you deny Israel has done wrong and you continue to defend their strategic position- which is counter productive in relation to security needs at best.

reply to post by backinblack


Good lord.. you cant kep your conversations straight... You deny, and when called out you change your story to justify your comments.

Israel would not have had to attack in 67 had Arab countries not placed their militaries on alert or massed on the border. As I said before quit blaming Israel for something the Soviet Union pulled on their allies (Egypt, Jordan Syria and the PLO).

You are so stuck on blaming Israel and Jews for everything that you ignore facts and history in order to support your warped view of history.

We would not be here had Arabs accepted the intial plan. We would not be here if Arab countries had not attacked ISrael time and again and lost. Thre was no Egypt or Syria or Jordan when the Ottoman Empire was in control. Also I love how you guys make crap up for palestine yet completely ignore the Kurdish issue.

Demanding freeomd for Palestine while supproting the enslavement of the Kurds speaks volumes on your motives.

Arabs / Palestinians lost..... Accept it and move on because no amount of skewed facts by you or other members of your marry little cabal will change that fact..

The single greatest threat to peace in the MIddle East is Hamas and other wingnut arab groups who defile their religion while people continue making excuses to justify terrorists attacks from them on israeli civilians.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Israel wouldnt be occupying anything had the Arabs not attacked them / forced them to respond, depnding on which war you want to look at. Had the Arabs been succesful in conquering Israel we wouldnt hear you or the other jihad musketeers complaining. If anything you would be giving the they had it come speech.

Arabs attacked
Arabs Lost
Arabs need to deal with it

Dont pick a fight you cant finish.
Dont run to momy and daddy when you lose.

As I ahve stated time and again you guys need to quit seeing only what you want. I have taken ISrael to task plenty of times. The problem is you and other hate Israel and Jews so much that you just gloss over any comments taking ISrael to task from people who dont show your level of hatred towards them.

Thats the problem...

The single greatest threat to peace in the MIddle East is Hamas and other wingnut arab groups who defile their religion while people continue making excuses to justify terrorists attacks from them on israeli civilians.

Nah, the biggest threat to peace in the ME is Israel..

A blatantly aggressive, nuclear armed country that constantly lies,cheats and steals while making up the rules as it goes along..

The world is changing, information is getting out faster than ever and more people are waking up daily to what Israel really is..

Your on the loosing side IMO...

Originally posted by backinblack
Your on the loosing side IMO...

Hows that winning strategy working out for the Palestinians......

No home land, hijacked religion, lied to by Hamas...

yup.. winning strategy... As long as they continue that strategy they will continue to be the second class citizens Hamas wants to keep them at for propoganda purposes.

Maybe it's that Mossad link to Hamas that's been discussed..

I've freely admitted I don't consider Hamas is helping the situation with those useless little skyrockets..

Originally posted by backinblack
Maybe it's that Mossad link to Hamas that's been discussed..

I've freely admitted I don't consider Hamas is helping the situation with those useless little skyrockets..

Then why do you constantly place all the blame on Israel? Whenever you discuss the issues on the arab side you remain silent instead of calling them out like you do Israel.

Silence is just as bad as open outright support.

Do I really need to quote my past posts where I've said I condemn the targeting of civilians from BOTH sides or that I don't agree with actions taken by Hamas?

I can HONESTLY say that my preference is to see Israel and Palestine both exist and be at peace..

Can you??

Originally posted by backinblack
Do I really need to quote my past posts where I've said I condemn the targeting of civilians from BOTH sides or that I don't agree with actions taken by Hamas?

I can HONESTLY say that my preference is to see Israel and Palestine both exist and be at peace..

Can you??

Lol your funny... You obfuscate so much you dont even realize you do it. If you go back and look at your posts, you feel the need to include Israel in any comment you make that talks about Hamas and their issues. You are incapable of taking Hamas / Palestinians to task on their own. You always have to include Israel in with it.

As I said we get the fact you hate Israel and the Jews. You dont need to constantly remind us of that when you talk about Hamas and the PAlestinians. Before you decide to tell me im wrong about Israel and the JEws, I can go back and pull some more of your quotes on that very topic if you want.

Contrary to thought, you arent taking Palestinians or Hamas to task when you include Israel in every single comment you make. You come across as disenguine and non believable when speaking about Hamas actions.

This is my irritation with you on this topic. Just once try to discuss the topic without feeling the need to drag Israel into every single one of your posts.

I beleive peace is possible ONLY if Hamas accepts Israel and ends their attacks, which is what provokes Israeli responses. Only if Hamas rejects the part of thei rcharter calling for the destruction of Israel.

If Hamas doesnt give in on that, then there wont be any peace. Why should there be? Why should ISrael negotiate a peace with a group that wants them destroyed completely?

Do you think Hamas should accept Israels right to exist and remove from their charter the part calling for the destruction of Israel?

If you dont think Hamas should reject that, then why do you think peace would be possible?

reply to post by Xcathdra


Arab states attacked not the Palestinians. Once again you are simply placing all the blame on one entity and it is not even the Palestinians this time.

I think you should take your own advice and quite seeing what you want. Your living in a fantasy world if you believe Israel has no burden of blame to carry on its shoulders. It is interesting that now that your argument that Israel has facilitated land for peace has been blown completely out of the water, you are diverting to your typical rubish. Blame the Arabs for everything.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Yeah you keep coming back at me with the land for peace argument. The recent talks with Israel has the Prime Minister going on record stating they are open to exchanging land for areas in the west bank they ahve estbalished settlements in.

I have no earthly reason why you cant seem to grasp that and understand it. You keep saying its not true, when the Prime Minister of Israel as well as global media outlets, including those from the east and ME, are telling you that you are wrong.

Let me help you out.... again.

TV: Israel agrees to negotiate over pre-'67 lines

JERUSALEM (AP) — In a dramatic policy shift, Israel's prime minister has agreed to negotiate the borders of a Palestinian state based on the cease-fire line that marks off the West Bank, a TV station reported Monday.

Up to now, Benjamin Netanyahu has refused to spell out his plan for negotiating the border. A senior Israeli official would not confirm outright that the prime minister was now willing to adopt the cease-fire line as a starting point, but said Israel was willing to try new formulas to restart peace talks based on a proposal made by President Barack Obama.

In a speech about the Middle East in May, Obama proposed negotiations based on the pre-1967 line with agreed swaps of territory between Israel and a Palestinian state. Netanyahu reacted angrily, insisting that Israel would not withdraw from all of the West Bank, though that was not what Obama proposed.

Pay attention -

Now Netanyahu is basically accepting that framework, according to Channel 2 TV, offering to trade Israeli territory on its side of the line for West Bank land where its main settlements are located

Now that you have once again been proven wrong, what else would you like to claim that we can debunk for you? At some point you and the others really need to get with the picture and actually do research before towing the typical arab line.

As far as Israel bearing responsibility I have never said they dont. My argument has been consistent the entire time in this thread as well as others that it takes 2 to tango. Again you should quit seeing only what you want to see. You should also completely read peoples posts so you dont look ignorant by telling me I said or hold a position when in reality I dont.

I hold the Arabs responsible for the problems going this long in the Middle East. They ignored all chances for a Palestinian state. They ignore all requests by Israel to be recognized and peace treaties signed.

Your continued insitence that Israel is completely at fault is typical ME propoganda BS, as you and others like to continually remind everyone about western media.

When land for peace goes through, what will you and the others use to justify your hatred for Israel and the Jews?

Also, as I stated in toher threads that people in this thread continue to deny -
The Palestinians still have sticking points because they want East Jurusalem as their captial.
They want a right of return as well

2 areas I was told arent part of the Palestinian demands.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Pay attention -

Now Netanyahu is basically accepting that framework, according to Channel 2 TV, offering to trade Israeli territory on its side of the line for West Bank land where its main settlements are located

Now that you have once again been proven wrong, what else would you like to claim that we can debunk for you? At some point you and the others really need to get with the picture and actually do research before towing the typical arab line.

Ahh, your cherry picked quotes..
Why didn't you share a little more like this tidbit??

Up to now, Benjamin Netanyahu has refused to spell out his plan for negotiating the border. A senior Israeli official would not confirm outright that the prime minister was now willing to adopt the cease-fire line as a starting point, but said Israel was willing to try new formulas to restart peace talks based on a proposal made by President Barack Obama.

So it hasn't come directly from Netanyahu and no senior official has confirmed it.
Gee whiz, doesn't REALLY sound like fact to me.

Oh, and why are they suddenly pretending to want peace?

Part of the reason, he said, was that Israel is seeking to persuade the Palestinians to drop their initiative to win U.N. recognition of their state next month, something the Palestinians are doing out of frustration with stalled peace efforts.

Now why would Israel wanna do that?
Don't they want to know what the world thinks of Palestine and if they deserve to be recognized as a state?

And if Palestine did what Israel said does anyone think Israel would keep their word??

So many questions and so few answers..

reply to post by backinblack


The quotes arent cherrypicked at all. Nice try though. Anything to change the context so you can use it in your favor. I see your blaming Israel once again as well.. You are good at that, while again I see you ignore Hamas and the palestinian response.

Actually it has come from Netanyahu...
Source



and the response form hamas?
Hamas accepts 1967 borders, but will never recognize Israel, top official says

Hamas would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, a leader of the militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an on Wednesday, adding, however, that Hamas would never recognize Israel since such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine.

Zahar's comments come amid Palestinian efforts to form a unity government that would include former rivals Fatah and Hamas, following a reconciliation agreement the two factions signed last week in Cairo.

Yup.. Hamas isnt a road block to peace at all.... /end sarcasm

reply to post by Xcathdra

Actually it has come from Netanyahu...

Yep, from YOUR source, straight from Netanyahu..

“We are willing in a framework of restarting the peace talks to accept a proposal that would contain elements that would be difficult for Israel and we would find very difficult to endorse,” an anonymous Israeli official told the AP.

Netanyahu also threw cold water on the likelihood of returning to the negotiating table with the Palestinians, saying that the Palestinian bid for statehood imperiled peace talks.

“I am prepared to meet Abbas at any moment – even tonight,” Netanyahu said. “However, this will not happen, because the Palestinians want to go to the UN no matter what, and declare a state without making compromises.”

What gives Israel the right to ask Palestine NOT to go to the UN ??
What are they afraid of, the truth??

reply to post by backinblack


Yes.. Netanyahu did... Ignore it all you want if that helps you out.

By the way masterful dodge on Hamas and their rejection of ISraels right to exist.. I see once again your showing your middle of the road approach by constantly going after Israel. Apparently your hatred knows no bounds.

Palestinians can go to the UN all they want, and can hold a vote all they want. The UN Secratary GEneral has alrady stated any vote to create a palestinian state is symbolic and not legally binding, and even the Palestinians have said this. They want the vote so they can use the politics behind it.

If Palestinians can go to the UN then Hamas can recognize Israels right to exist. Absent a change by Hamas why should ISrael accept anything that would place an entity bent on its distruction in a position to arm themselves and kill more Israeli civilians?

As I said, Hamas is the greatest threat to peace, not ISrael.

As I said, Hamas is the greatest threat to peace, not ISrael.

maybe they're working together..

Though I noted weeks ago you guys would be out in force with the UN vote coming up..

The WORLD will decide, not Israel..

Good luck with that..

Israeli politicians know the expire date has been confirmed on the American credit card - Washington is no longer able to provide adequate diplomatic protection. The United States is at the mercy of foreign governments, who currently hold Treasuries and Dollars; Obama is not stupid enough to risk a global fire sell and rapid alteration to the reserve currency status. "You're on your own" is the new Israel policy by the White House and subsequent Presidents.

It is better to negotiate now then witness a potential tougher stance from Europe or even the Chinese. The Palestinian state is inevitable and will be based on pre 67 lines, already discussed and demanded by the United Nations.

So yeah, don't be surprised by this change of policy from the Israeli government.

reply to post by backinblack


With you on that m8 ..... must be costing a fair bit in overtime at the moment.

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reply to post by backinblack


The world won't decide anything, and the UN has alrady stated as much. The vote on Palestine is a temperature vote and not legally binding. Its designed to increase pressure on Israel to give into Palestinian demands, and after the number of wars Israel has fought against Arab agressors, I dont see a UN vote being all that significant.

Whats your feeling about Hamasw statement about not recognizing Israel>? You keep avoiding it?

Hamas refuses to recognize Israel, so why should ISrael recognize a Palestinian state?

Is that not a setup for war?