4,000 Pastors call on government to not cut entitlements

reply to post by kro32


well man the way i see it your interpretation of the constiution is why the government is killing itself

it has promised too much that it cant pay or function properly hence the terminology of "general welfare"

that defintion has detrimental effects that cant be fixed unless that term and understanding gets changed and changed fast.

Originally posted by watchitburn
The Government has no business trying to help everyone.

This is one of the main reasons so many people need assistance in the first place.

I pretty much agree, but I would say it is more of reason why charitable organizations are feeling the strain to meet the mandate to help the "least of these." It is one of the many ways in which the government has usurped it's authority and power, by thinking it IS the system by which these issues should be addressed, not by the public and population as a whole.

There has been a distinct effort to remove all tax deductions towards faith based organizations and charities and it's not so much in reference to the establishment clause as it is an effort to control the distribution of funds based upon it's own political agenda.

It kind of makes me queasy thinking that these men and women are appealing to the government, as if it was the end-of-all in the provision and protection of the poor and the weak. Shouldn't they rather be challenging the government to ease the burdens it imposes on society as a whole, so that once again we could help each other, face to face and in our own communities?

I don't know, I guess it's me thinking that we as a whole would rather turn it over to a faceless bureaucracy that leaves us with little accountability than take on the burden as individuals ourselves.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by beezzer

 

How well did we do caring for our own before The New Deal? I honestly don't know. i am wondering if you or anyone else might?

I don't know, and honestly, I don't care.
If they did it before, then bully for them!
If they didn't do it before, then WE need to be th first to do so.

reply to post by ReluctantBlossom


fine with me if you wanna take away money from drug addicts and homeless people.

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by watchitburn
The Government has no business trying to help everyone.

This is one of the main reasons so many people need assistance in the first place.

Well, "To promote the general welfare" could be considered the founders mandate to the Federal Government to help the people.

It's a gray area

It's not a gray area, "To promote the general welfare" is in the preamble, not within the legislative articles, so it has no effective power.

reply to post by neo96


They aren't all drug addicts and homeless people.

Not everyone has the ability to save their entire lives. For some people something happens to them well before they reach retirement age. Something they had no control over.

Do you think that if we suddenly cut these programs then all these people would still be cared for in some way. (I am not speaking of those who are leeches on society. That is a red herring. I am talking about the ones who actually need assistance)

reply to post by beezzer


But, do you really think that, for the first time in our society, we would?

reply to post by nunya13


if things continue as is they are going to get there whether or not they like it or anyone else.

the money trough has run dry putting band aids on gaping holes wont fix it.

people have to change and they have to want that change and government has to change because if they dont there wont be one.

reply to post by neo96


So the reason our economy is the way it is is because of poor druggies, homeless people and those refusing to take personal responsibility?

And the way to fix this is to get rid of social programs and we will see our economy start to recover and people will start getting jobs?

reply to post by Jezus


Your comment is abysmal. There are so many old folks and disabled that can not do for themselves. What bible are you quoting? Your cold and have no conscious. Must be young and unaffected by life circumstances.

Surely, I can assure you.......the day will come when you need help. When it is not there you will be decrying, "BUT I PAID INTO IT"!

Best wishes for you that you do not experience the horrid problems that millions of folks experience daily.

A country or a man/woman can be judged upon their generous givings to the under privileged. You apparently are a heartless failure of your upbringing.

I'm not a religious person. However, I know for a fact the bible portrays Jesus as a giving and healing person.

I'm sticking with my spirituality. Hope you find yours.

Your obviously trolling. I am troll patrol. Watch out for me.

reply to post by neo96


Your comments in this thread, are well, screw it I'll just get banned.

Not every "old person" out there have had the opportunity to save away until they grow old. Some people have been poor all their lives, or have had other disastrous things happen in their lives which have eaten up their savings.

Take my grandmother for example. My grandfather died in '07. He was the soul provider for the family and while he wasn't ill (which was NO fault of his own, rather a doctors MESS UP) he worked from eight in the morning to nine at night. He was a civil engineer and worked on some of the technology planes like the FA 117 used as well as a plethora of others. But then in 2000, the doctor cut out a piece of his lung and botched the patch up causing air to leak throughout his body. When it was all said and done, he had less then 27% lung capacity. Yet, he continued to work with overtime.

That is, until he got too ill to work. He was then prescribed all sorts of medication. He started taking them and then he started to get bad mood swings. Never once was he an unreasonable man, but thanks to these pills, the things he did was just crazy.

Like take out a second mortgage on the house which wasn't needed. But he wasn't thinking straight, come to find out the doctors prescribed him medication that conflicted with each other. If it wasn't for these mess ups, my grandmother would have been just fine now, the house would have been paid off and she'd have enough to live on.

But then all the savings which they did have, had to be used because after he died, bills just piled in. She didn't have enough each month to cover for her measly little house and her car from 1995. So she dipped into the savings time and time again until they were no more.

Now, she eats a sandwich a day and barely gets by. She doesn't splurge, she's very mindful of how she spends her money. She relies on Medicaid (or is it medicare?) as well as social security to get by. So, think she doesn't deserve to live in her little house and drive her old car around? She's 76 now, what is she supposed to do? Go back in time, stop the doctors from SCREWING my grandparents over? Move out on the street? Lose her home?

No. My grandfather served in two wars, he's worked X amount of years to pay taxes. She deserves that damn social security. The government and people like you have nothing to say.

I'm all for cutting costs, making people earn what they get. But in sometimes, people deserve the little they get.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by beezzer

 

But, do you really think that, for the first time in our society, we would?

If we are deserving of the title of intelligent beings then we darned well should. If not? Then we are a pathetic species.

reply to post by Frontkjemper


keep on dishing out the cash how screwed do you think those people are going to be when there is no more government?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Jezus
Christ said the poor were lazy leeches...

No, he said the poor we will have with us always.

"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."
-Deuteronomy 15:11

"Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.'"
-Matthew 19:21

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'"
-Matthew 25:41-45

---

So maybe "the poor" only think they need help, right?

Poor is in the mind! Hard work defeats bad luck!

Well I guess we could help people who think they need help...

But why would we do something like that?

reply to post by nunya13


to even begin to fix things people have to get a whole new belief system

we have tried that since 1935 and added 2 more programs that can never be paid for.

and to keep doing the same thing over and over aigan is insane

Maybe the pastors are asking because they are overwhelmed helping now, and cutting some of these programs will only make it worse? Who knows? IMO, if these programs are cut, we will only create a bigger problem. I truly believe we can find other areas to cut spending.

And, most Americans have paid into the system all their working lives to support these programs. Yes, personal responsibility and preparing for the future is well and good, but things do happen that can zap those savings very quickly. So I feel if they are going to cut these programs, they darn well better send me a refund of all monies I paid in...with interest of course.

Our congress has raped the "trust funds" over the years, and that along with poor management skills has gotten us in the mess we are in. I have paid into this system for 40 plus years. If they cut these programs, all of us are left with nothing if disaster strikes? Beef up the fraud divisions, and even provide citizens rewards for reporting those who are working off the books and drawing money under these programs. See something, say something! If it's good enough for terrorists, it's good enough for those who abuse the system. We all have seen folks who are openly committing fraud, or have heard about it. That's a good place to start, IMHO.

reply to post by neo96


How about you quit being so obtuse and use your thinking power for a second instead? Want to cut government spending? Then how about pull out of the unnecessary wars America's in? How about quit sending overseas aid? How much money has Israel gotten lately? How about all those black projects the government works on?

How about we quit doing all that crap first, and then start worrying about what's being spent on money to help your fellow man in need?

So far, the country I'm in now is a socialistic country with government healthcare, large social benefits for not only their citizens but immigrants as well. Yet, they're doing OK. Wanna know their secret? They're not in any BS wars spending countless millions.

reply to post by Frontkjemper


You are on the right track. Here's my thoughts:

We are in multiple wars. Our defense spending is ridiculous. We send billions to foreign countries. We cut billions in tax revenues in the early 00's.

Now, people have the audacity to require senior citizens and the disabled to give up their sole source of income for the sake of our national debt?

Social security has NOTHING to do with the debt. It makes no sense to even consider gutting these programs in order to solve a problem it did not contribute to. Any discussion about this on the HIll is political and nothing else. It does nothing but muddy the waters and gets conservatives to support the Republican bills regardless of what is actually in them. "Oh, you want to gut welfare programs? I'll support your bill. I don't care what else is in it or if it will actually solve our problems. But I can't stand those freeloaders so screw em. Screw grandma and grandpa. Screw the guy who got hit by a car and now can't work a day in his life. Screw the woman who got MS and can barely function. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!"

When people have no problem with the amount of money bleeding out of the pentagon wherein billions typically disappear and then turn around and blame grandma and grandpa for all our woes, there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with our country.

Go read the polls. Go listen to what REAL people, not political pundits and "experts" are saying! They want to raise taxes on the rich and keep welfare programs just the way they are.

Saying that we need to suddenly change our entire social mentality with how we deal with the needy doesn't solve anything. Saying that we should gut these programs and then worry about the consequences later is ludicrous. All so rich people don't have to pay the taxes they were paying not too long ago. We cut their taxes and their wealth skyrocketed, but we are still losing jobs and they are still being shipped over seas. Good job on that one guys. Looks like cutting those taxes solved everything for us, didn't it.

Some of you talk about how the social programs aren't working. Are the tax cuts for the rich working? If you excuse is, "if it's broken, toss it out" then should that not also apply to the tax cuts for the rich?

the top 400 earners in this country saw their income quadruple and their taxes cut in half! They pay 16% in taxes, far less that many middle class families. And you actually think the wealth is being distributed to the bottom? Wow...

What's funny is not once in this entire debate about the debt have I heard our representatives communicate to the American people that the rich are accumulating wealth like never before in our history. This is coupled with the fact that wages for the middle and working class are not only stagnant but decreasing overall.

And you still think Obama is redistributing wealth to the poor. The lazy, drugged out homeless poor. They have zip and you want to take more from them.

Whatever.... I've tried to be calm in this thread. But after much thinking I decided I'm fed up and I obviously can't change anyone's minds just like no one will change mine. So I figured it was time to let it all out, and so that is what I have done. take it for what you will. call me a commie socialist pig. I don't care. Not if that means that I actually care about taking care of the weakest members in our society instead of putting all the burden on them and their families for the sake of keeping the rich happy.

Originally posted by neo96
to even begin to fix things people have to get a whole new belief system

we have tried that since 1935 and added 2 more programs that can never be paid for.

Can never be paid for?

Of course they could easily be paid for...it's a matter of priorities.

Won't and can't are not the same thing...

reply to post by Jezus


alright heres the skinny

social security medicaid and medicare

social security works like this you pay 6% then you pas half that cost off on the employer who matches at another 6% then both gets passed off to the government who decides who gets it and who doesnt and then steals it.

and that charade goes on for 30 40 or 50 years you paying into a system that your not directly benefiting for decades that money is paid to someone else of age and thats multiplied by every working american.

the fact that that 6% you paid in comes no where close to what you receive in pay or benefits and thats a fact.

first in and first out.

medicare and medcaid and any insurance works the same every single person pays into a system that doesnt use it to pay other people who do til your time comes.

people are paying 30 or 40 years into something that they arent using and that is "legal"

that cash is gone as soon as it gets there.

that is what some people are pushing and its messed up instead of one fully funded programs that was desgined to work as it was intended to work doesnt and then create 2 more of the same garabage.

its nonsense.