Police beat, taser mentally ill homeless man to death

Well I think Hanover Fiste pretty much sums up what I think should happen to those scum cops.
Sorry you will need to jump this vid to 4:06 and stop at 4:17 for what I think should happen.

Originally posted by m1991
It's well known that the profession of being a police officer attracts bullies. You become a cop for three reasons: 1) you wanna help people, 2) it's a job, and 3) you're a bully who wants to hide behind a badge.

I wouldn't say 99% of cops are bullies, but I wouldn't say 99% of them are in it to help people either I think the profession is a very mixed bag.

Every cop I've ever ran into or seen talking to other people, they just have this cocky I'm better then you attitude.
You best believe when you back talk or mock them or raise your voice ANYTHING, they will turn into this #ing dickhead disgusting son of a bitch and they will make sure you're charged with EVERYTHING! And best believe there gonna be screaming in your face, and if you do anything about it you might as well dig your grave. These scum bags are the # of this earth and its time we flush them down the toilet!

It's sad, I feel sorry for this guy's family. With all the bad cop videos being spread on YouTube, you would think cops would start thinking twice before using excessive force when arresting someone. I sometimes think they get their kicks out of beating people. Five cops can't subdue this homeless man? WOW.

reply to post by lllllllll


The reason it is not right for people to intervene is because they do not know all of the facts at the time of the incident. You could intervene in a situation, which appears to be a clear case of police wrongdoing, and it turns out the police were completely justified in what they were doing.

Example: Post

Reader's digest, criminal jumps turnstile to avoid paying $2 dollar fair, police see said crime and attempt apprehension, criminal runs, police chase, criminal is eventually shot and dies, public makes knee jerk reaction and claims police misconduct, police say criminal was shooting at police while running, public furthers uninformed claims of police misconduct because no gun was immediately recovered at the scene, THIRD PARTY CELL PHONE VIDEO CLEARLY SHOWS GUN IN CROWD WHICH IS SUBSEQUENTLY PICKED UP BY MEMBER OF THE CROWD AND HIDDEN FROM POLICE

***Disclaimer***
I am reserving judgement on the incident at hand because there simply is not enough facts for one to pass judgement. Please do not accuse me of being a police apologist. I am merely presenting facts that may not be thought of before passing judgement.
***Disclaimer***

While the photographs do incite an immediate reaction of disgust, viewing the photographs and video alone do not give you a full account of what happened. There simply is not enough information contained in these pieces of evidence alone to say one way or another.

Lets start with the video. Yes, I will admit that the audio sounds like he has given up and his crying for help. The actual videographic evidence is terrible. Actual video of the man giving up is not seen in the video. The camera is simply too far from the action to provide a full view of what is actually going on. During the video, it is clearly seen that at least two police officers arrive. Meaning there was not a total of six officers present the entire time. The video obviously starts WAY after the actual incident starts so it is anyone's guess how many officers were present when the fight started. The video shows absolutely no actions of the police so we do not know when the man sustained the injuries.

When the fight started, there COULD have been as little as one officer there. He COULD have gotten the injuries when the fight initially started, from as little as one or two officers who were injured, or he COULD have gotten them when the officers continued to beat him, with as many as six officers beating him. It is impossible, considering the facts available to US, to determine when he sustained the injuries that killed him.

I know what you are going to say. The injuries presented in the picture could not have been caused by one or two officers in the middle of a fight it must have been from all six officers beating him. This is why we will not move on to the picture as evidence.

Yes, the picture incites an immediate feeling of disgust and animosity towards the police. But, the picture does not provide any evidence as to when the man sustained those injuries. The injuries that you see could very well have been done by one person in the midst of a fight. It is totally possible. The injuries that you see on the man's face are not the injuries that killed him. It was most likely some type of injury to the brain, which could also be accomplished by one person. There have been people who have died during a simple fight where as little as one punch is thrown. If you hit someone hard enough, or in the right place, one punch has the potential to kill if enough damage is done to the brain.

Taking all this into consideration, what we do not know is how many officers were present when the fight started. If it was as little as one officer, which is entirely possible, and he was injured, the article says officers were injured during the fight, then a CERTAIN amount of force is justifiable. What is possible is that the fight could have been even initially, between the man and one officer, and the officer was injured causing him to fight like his life depended on it making the line of reasonable force shift. During this initial fight, injuries could have been sustained by the man which eventually lead to his death from some sort of brain injury. The other five officers could have arrived late and used reasonable force, after the death inducing injury had already been dealt, to take the man into custody.

With the information at hand, anything is possible at this point.

***DISCLAIMER***
If this was a case of police brutality where the man died, the police deserve to be dealt with harshly. I am merely providing the reader with a different view point because, with the evidence provided, no judgement can be passed yet.
***DISCLAIMER***

reply to post by Damarus

Being tasered one time is more than enough to make a normal person unable to move.

Not neccessarily true. Please, lets get the facts straight.

An ideal hit with a taser will, undeniably, render someone temporarily unable to move for the duration of the shock. This is only during an ideal hit where both probes make contact with two large muscle groups causing a full body effect. If one probe misses or ideal muscle groups are not hit then it is a matter of pain compliance at that point because it will not effect enough of the muscle groups to render someone immobile. If someone is drunk, high, mentally handicapped or just really determined, they can fight through a non-ideal hit with a taser.

Even if the person did assault these cops there no need for such brutality with six cops around, there would normally be no need for any tasering they could just keep him on the ground handcuff him then drive him off to police station without the poor guy getting beaten to death.

like I explained in my previous post, the video is sub par. We do not know how many officers were on the scene initially or which caused the injuries the man sustained. I do agree that the cuffs should be put on as soon as reasonably possible and after the cuffs go on the use of force is drastically reduced. We do not know from the video when exactly the cuffs went on the man.

reply to post by WeRpeons

, you would think cops would start thinking twice before using excessive force when arresting someone

Funny you should say that. When I was in the Army, everytime Clinton or some Brass molested a women, we would get sexual harassament training, etc, etc,. You'd think police depts around the country would be trying to retrain, instead they seem to be stepping it up.

reply to post by areyouserious2010

***DISCLAIMER*** If this was a case of police brutality where the man died, the police deserve to be dealt with harshly. I am merely providing the reader with a different view point because, with the evidence provided, no judgement can be passed yet. ***DISCLAIMER***

Let's be clear here. Regardless of any subsequent facts, the police officers who did this very clearly passed some judgment in order to determine that such an ass whoopin' was merited. When police arrest anyone, they are passing judgment. When a prosecutor brings these charges to a Grand Jury, the prosecutor has passed judgment and is asking the Grand Jury to do the same.

The only difference between the police who passed judgment on the man beaten to death and the members in this thread who are outraged is that the judgment being passed by the outraged members is not in anyway fatal to those police officers.

Judge that!

reply to post by Anoynymoose

they will turn into this #ing dickhead disgusting son of a bitch and they will make sure you're charged with EVERYTHING!

They probably turn into this because you act like this.

You best believe when you back talk or mock them or raise your voice ANYTHING

Most police officers will be nice and respectful as long as you are not treating them poorly or acting like a turd. What is back talking or mocking going to accomplish anyway? And of course they are going to charge you with everything they can. Why would you expect lieniency when you are treating them poorly?

Yes, there is a minority of police that will treat anyone poorly just for being there but it is usually easier to keep your mouth shut and conclude the contact with the officer quickly so you can then call the station and speak with a supervisor to make a complaint. I will agree with you that these types of police officer need to change the way they treat people or change their profession but assuming all of them are the minority that acts like this will only cause a headache.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


The full term of what you are explaining is "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" not just "innocent until proven guilty."

The police are tasked with investigating crimes, collecting fact and developing a suspect from the evidence uncovered. Meaning they have to develop probable cause and charge who they think is responsible for the crime, thereby passing judgement. The presumption of innocence is reserved for the judge and jury who have to weigh the evidence presented to them by the State's Attorney and uncovered by the Police.

In this situation, the police used force against the man because he was resisting arrest. The force that was applied was not punishment for whatever crime he was alleged to have committed. Unless some form of evidence can be presented that says otherwise.

reply to post by areyouserious2010




The fact that you can be so cold about this and even try to downplay a murder just makes me sick

reply to post by areyouserious2010

In this situation, the police used force against the man because he was resisting arrest. The force that was applied was not punishment for whatever crime he was alleged to have committed. Unless some form of evidence can be presented that says otherwise.

People have been resisting arrest for as long as there have been law enforcement personnel arresting people. The vast majority of people who resist arrest do not wind up in hospitals looking as badly beaten as the man in question did, nor do they wind up dead. This would fairly constitute probable cause in terms of the outrage being shown in this thread.

All political power flows directly from the people. The members in this site count as people. It is not only their right to pass judgment in the same way police do, it is their responsibility to do so.

The recent spate of dubious police beatings has not happened because there are more people becoming consciously aware of their inherent political power and exercising that power as best they know how to, this recent spate of police beatings is endemic of an earlier population that blindly defended police actions regardless of the circumstances. The echo of that blind defense can still be heard by posters such as you, but the times they are a changin', my friend.

It is ultimately the smug attitude that the members in this site should not pass judgment until you say they should that is what I am addressing with you. The hypocrisy of your smug judgment reeks of foulness.

Just like the man said in the video. "How can someone resist arrest while on their back? Just put handcuffs on them and call it a night." This story is heartbreaking. How in the hell does it take 5 full grown men to subdue one mentally ill man. That's pathetic! look at the damn picture of him in the hospital!!! How the **** do you explain that? I'm so damn pissed right now

There seems to be more and more stories coming out of police brutality. I started a thread yesterday linking three stories, two about cops and one about teachers. I am not sure if police have always been doing this and are just now getting caught more often due to cameras and the internet, or there are just more and more nut jobs being recruited to become police. Since there are supposed to be stringent mental and character tests to become police officers, I can't help but think the ones committing these atrocities are placed in those positions to do exactly what there doing.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by areyouserious2010


Dude, once the cuffs are on, the use of force is done. If you have to beat a man who is bound, your a coward.

reply to post by Anoynymoose


Cops are very cocky. They always assume the worst of people. They need to be reminded that they are citizens too. As much as they like to think they are not, they are! A civilian is anyone who is not currently serving in the armed forces. Police should be working with the people on how to prevent crime and better the community. Instead, they just try and meet quotas, harass people, etc. Its a sad day in age in America.

One of these days someone with balls, and a CCW, is going to come across murderous thugs like these cops in the act of beating someone and empty a clip in to them.

There is absolutely NO reason for a person to be beaten to death by the police - NONE!

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by Nkinga

 

How about waiting for all the information to come out. So many people on this site are ready to believe anything before they have the whole story it really amazes me sometimes how you guys are so spoonfed. Get all the facts than make up your own mind about what was justified or not.

No need to be sheep and follow the crowd.

He was unarmed, face down, beaten and tasered to death, screaming out for his dad, and witnesses gave testimony. There is no other side. This was extreme unjustified evil murder of this vulnerable man. I saw the pictures, it was unbeleivable.

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by Nkinga

 

I say we flood the Fullerton California police department with calls of complaints along with emails???? let them know that this story is making it out of their little bubble.

How about flood the main Police Station with people, do you think they would give a damn if you send couple of emails, as if the US population haven't been complaining to their representatives throughout these years, who listened? No one..

So please, if you are gonna take action, make it face to face, imagine a thousand people storming the police station and telling the police that you work for us, if the police act like they own the country, give them a shake up, go with your guns. There are hundreds of millions of Americans, WTF can the police do against you, and most have guns.

People have become so passive that they watch police brutality without any intervention, because they know police will win. And Police wins because they stick together, and they want the public to be divided. If the public is divided then they will always live in fear of intervening when the police are committing crime. Your nation, take responsibility, and not through emails or phone calls, but make your presence known by being there.

Edit To Add

I just saw the picture and it infuriated me you think the Taliban were brutal, F off....

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by Nkinga

 

How about waiting for all the information to come out. So many people on this site are ready to believe anything before they have the whole story it really amazes me sometimes how you guys are so spoonfed. Get all the facts than make up your own mind about what was justified or not.

No need to be sheep and follow the crowd.

What info could possibly come out that would justify what those bullying psycho pigs did??

Originally posted by kro32


Maybe he went after the cops and was fighting back.

That would not justify the brutal killing he got, where did you learn morality?