Saturn rocking back and forth?? What if CW Leonis were really Nibiru? Link inside.

I'm ok with the expanded OP. Just some observations. Taking magnetism and electricity out of the OP really takes nothing away. Why can't we just admit that something has cycled and come close enough, once again, to our solar system to, by it's mass and/or density to cause perturbed orbits and heat. Why do we need new theories and explanations when the old theories and explanations will still do. Just because information is deliberately obscured and hidden so that the stock markets won't crash is not a reason to develop new theories that make a comet capable of magic. A combusting object encased in an iron core is new and yes, it's different and the items encircling it may be different but a dense and/or massive object coming closer can cause all of these effects and leave again so that only myths remain to a population dumbed down by DEVICE!

reply to post by luxordelphi

Why can't we just admit that something has cycled and come close enough, once again, to our solar system to, by it's mass and/or density to cause perturbed orbits and heat.

What perturbed orbits and what heat?

The solar systems is as it should be. The predicted positions of the planets are within the precision of measurements today. The conditions on the planets are expected conditions.

A combusting object encased in an iron core is new and yes, it's different and the items encircling it may be different but a dense and/or massive object coming closer can cause all of these effects and leave again

Why suggest:
1. That there is something to explain
2. That such an object has the required properties for any claimed effects

To bring this thread squarely back on topic, I would like to draw your attention to this thread about Dr. Glenn, the alleged source for the photographs of Saturn tilting. It sheds some light on the nature of the Elenin hoax:

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=11788474#pid11788474

Yeah, it shows me that he really believes what he has posted here. I used to think there was no Doctor and that Terral was just making everything up to create his story. Now I see there really is a Doc and he really does believe he saw something coming in his scope.

reply to post by KSprepared


It verifies for me that you are a repeater of hoaxes and are not interested in the truth. It is never too late to take the time to learn how science is actually done. It does require quite an investment in time and effort to understand the processes involved. It is much simpler to repeat hoaxes, but that is not fulfilling in the long run.

Heat:

Pluto and Mars and climate change: newscientist.com 'Climate myths: Mars and Pluto are warming too.'
"Observations of the thickness of Pluto's atmosphere in 2002 suggested the dwarf planet was warming even as its orbit took it further from the Sun." "Images of Mars suggest that between 1999 and 2005, some of the frozen carbon dioxide that covers the south polar region turned to gas (sublimated.) This may be the result of the whole planet warming..."

Neptune and climate change: bigthink.com 'Question: What can Neptune tell us about climate change?'
"So another piece of the Neptune puzzle was observations that I and other astronomers have put together about its temperature over the last couple of decades. And we have found that Neptune's atmosphere is steadily warming."

Uranus and climate change: windows2universe.org 'The Composition of Uranus' Interior'
"Ice begins forming in the atmosphere of Uranus, near the methane cloud deck. That may seem funny considering the atmosphere is getting warmer there..."

Saturn and climate change have already been addessed.

Jupiter and climate change: apod.nasa.gov 'Jupiter's Three Red Spots'
"Jupiter's recent outbreak of red spots is likely related to large scale climate change as the gas giant planet is getting warmer near the equator."

Earth and climate change is an ongoing discussion.

Venus has an inversion of dark and light spots and a sharp increase of sulfur-containing gases in it's atmosphere and a double vortex at the south pole.

Our moon is generating an atmosphere of natrium. Triton and Enceladus are experiencing climate change as are other moons.

The reason this information is so readily available is because of the ongoing climate change debate for Earth and who is going to pay for it. In order to disprove human cause, the rest of the solar system was dragged in to show that, hey, it's all warming but it's all good.

Orbits:

pnas.org 'Chaos and stability of the solar system'
"Over the last two decades, there has come about a recognition that chaotic dynamics is pervasive in the solar system. We now understand that the orbits of small members of the solar system - asteroids, comets, and interplanetary dust - are chaotic and undergo large changes on geological time scales. Are the major planets' orbits also chaotic? The answer is not straightforward, and the subtleties have prompted new questions."

globalwarming-arclein.blogspot 'Global Warming & Terra Forming Terra'
"The unexpected result is that these two minor planets do interact with them selves and earth sufficiently to place an upper limit on orbit predictability of around 60 million years. Assuming of course that something else with a vastly greater effect did not lshow up in the meantime. Since we appear to pass through the Sirius Cluster every 200 thousand years or so, the level of perturbation is grossly underestimated."

solarsystem.nasa.gov 'Weird Saturn Moon Movements Explained'
"For the first time ever, astronomers found that they could not predict the orbits of objects in the sky." "The chaos is due to the gravitational interactions between the two satellites." "What is the cause of the chaos? Goldreich and Rappaport are investigating the role of overlapping resonances."

msnbc.msn.com 'Large 'Planet X' may lurk beyond Pluto'
"The Kuiper Belt contains many peculiar features that can't be explained by standard solar system models. One is the highly irregular orbits of some of the belt's members."

astrobio.net 'Perturbed Planets Outside of the Plane'
"Several different gravitational scenarios could be responsible for the surprisingly inclined orbits in Upsilon Andromadae. 'Possibilities include interactions occurring from the inward migration of planets, the ejection of other planets from the system through planet-planet scattering, or disruption from the parent star's binary companion star, Upsilon Andromedae B,' McArthur said." "The team's Hubble data also confirmed Upsilon Andromedae's status as a binary star. The companion star is a red dwarf less massive and much dimmer than the sun. 'We don't have any idea what its orbit is,' Benedict said. 'It could be very eccentric. Maybe it comes in very close every once in a while. It may take 10,000 years.' Such a close pass by the primary star could gravitationally perturb the orbits of its planets." "Team member Rory Barnes said that these giant planets with wacky orbits could affect Earth-like planets in the same system. These smaller planets might fluctuate between being habitable and being inhospitable to life because of the forces exerted by the neighboring planets with eccentric orbits. These forces could cause the orbit of the smaller planets to repeatedly elongate and then become circular again in as little as 1,000 years, causjing significant temperature variations."

cosmomagazine.come 'Did our Solar System once have another planet?'
"The fiery demise of a fifth rocky planet in our Solar System might have led to a flurry of asteroid impact that pockmarked the Moon and Earth billions of years ago." "And he thinks the misbehavior of a long-lost, fifth rocky planet callejd 'Planet V' was the trigger that upset the gravitational balance of the belt and ejected some of its inhabitants."

quora.com 'Why are most of the planets in the Solar System on nearly circular orbits?'
"Non circular orbits are usually caused by some sort of gravitational perturbation."

sciencedaily.com 'Mystery solved: How the Orbits of Extrasolar Planets Became so Eccentric'
" 'In these newly discovered systems things have not remained stable for billions of years,' said Rasio. 'While they may have formed like the solar system, after a while things went catastrophic. Our solar system, it appears, is rather peculiar in its long-term stability.' "

It's all unstable and unknown but it's all good.

And I really couldn't end for the time being without once again mentioning the interview that Dr. Glen gave to the Southeast Missourian entitled 'Cape doctor says he's not leading survivalist group...' and the quote from Dr. Glen at the end of that article, "You can't handle the truth." Disparaging a person doing a thankless public service in trying to impart his findings based on his personal observations is typical of abject ignorance.

reply to post by luxordelphi

And I really couldn't end for the time being without once again mentioning the interview that Dr. Glen gave to the Southeast Missourian entitled 'Cape doctor says he's not leading survivalist group...'

Funny... what I took away from it is this:

Dr. Byron Glenn of Cape Girardeau says he wants nothing to do with the people he sees as online crackpots trumpeting a "conspiracy wrapped in an enigma."...

Glenn said he's been harassed and threatened by doomsday believers of "Planet X," an idea spreading in the blogosphere and in online chat rooms about a brown dwarf star, a low-mass object rapidly approaching the solar system and bent on destroying much of the Earth. He said that believers, apparently followers of Terral L. Croft, or "Terral03" as he is known in anxiety-ridden chat rooms, have shown up at his North [redacted--DJW001] family practice demanding answers.

It appears survival is becoming a financial matter. In some correspondence, the group talks about raising money to accommodate hundreds of people looking for space in the caves, those who would not be able to cover the costs otherwise.

www.sott.net... arassed-by-believers-in-Planet-X-

Terral is harassing people who left his money scamming cult. Did anyone here expect otherwise?

reply to post by DJW001


I misunderstood - thought you were bashing Dr. Glen whose only crime was trying to communicate his observations about Saturn. I, too, am completely against charging money for a seat in a cave.

If you take the time to study the article fully to the end, you will realise that it is not about gravity being a form of magnetism. It is about the fact that Nibiru is real and is already in our Solar System, orbit of Saturn already, and is going to be in our Solar System even until 2018 and beyond. Elenin too. In 2018 Elenin will still be only as far as the orbit of Uranus and Nibiru will only be as far as the orbit of Saturn again. That is assuming that Nibiru does not collide with Jupiter. Which if you read the article seems extremely likely to happen. That is something that I did not read anywhere else. Also we all need to realise that on the 16 October 2011 we will nearly collide with Elenin and then exactly one year later, not a coincidence but due to harmonic resonance governing the way that planets interact, we nearly collide with Nibiru on 16 October 2012. Personally looking at it I think we might escape colliding with Elenin, but since Nibiru is such a hugely heavier object we stand little chance of getting past it with out a few problems to say the least. The thing is that according to the article Nibiru will collide with Jupiter some time towards the end of July and August 2012. I just cannot see how Jupiter and Nibiru will be able to just slide past eachother without colliding. It is clear that Nibiru will be moving far too slow to get out of the Solar System ? People ask why they cannot see Nibiru ? Well simply the fact is that Nibiru is a black object in the optical spectrum. Invisible to the eye. But it is strongly visible using Infra Red Photography. It is in the Constellation of Leo but since the Sun is now entering the Constellation of Leo you will not see it hidden behind the Sun ! However as we swing out around the Sun we might get a chance to see it again before it closes in upon us in 16 October 2012. Using an Infra Red Camera such as digital night viewing equipment or Infra Red photographic film, knowing where to point it, you might get some images of it as a very bright star in the sky. However, the article contains exceptional high quality Infra Red Space Telescope images of it. Just read the article. Link to the article. Whether or not Saturn is now 90* on its side is questionable, but not impossible. The volcanic eruption is real and might be symtomatic of such crustal displacement and pole shift ? The article is very interesting on many levels. As regard to gravity we all know that the establishment have not got a clue as to what it is.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/04803b3cfe8b.jpg[/atsimg]

Elenin Coma Diameter Exceeds 200,000 km says Leonid Elenin

Leonid Elenin is either talking absolute crap, because no one knows a fig about what is really going on in space, himself especially since his degree is in mathematics not astronomy, or he is a paid stooge of the gits at the top pouring excrement on everyone. Let me tell you what Elenin really is. Comets do not move in the plane of the ecliptic. Elenin is moving wholely entirely completely fully in the plane of the ecliptic. Comets move at high velocity. Elenin is moving far too slowly to be a comet. Elenin is a rogue planet. NASA basically said so in there reportage about there being far more rogue planets out there between the stars than there are planets in orbit around stars. Planets form from the material that explodes out from Supernova. Rogue planets are very common. Only to be expected. So do not be surprised that Elenin is a rogue planet. Comets are low in mass and certainly cannot cause earthquakes. On three occasions at times of alignment Elenin has already caused major massive earthquakes in Chile and New Zealand and in Japan. The big one in Japan on 11 March 2011 was well predicted in advance based on the alignment of Elenin the Earth and the Sun. To do this Elenin has to be at the least a planet. Comets cannot do this. To illustrate the point notice that every time the Earth the Sun and Jupiter or Saturn align there is usually a magnitude 7 earthquake or two somewhere or other. If the original figure of 80,000 kilometres diameter posted by Leonid Elenin back in April is to be believed then that indicates that Elenin is about the size of Uranus or Neptune. That he now up dates the measurement to 100,000 kilometres is interesting. His belief that the object is a comet only goes to show that he is not a professionally qualified astronomer. He is just a silly mathematician. He has no idea what it is. At present Elenin is far too near to the Sun as viewed from Earth so I wonder how it can be that anyone is seeing it, yet alone him ! The next alignment is in 14/15 [Saturn] and 26/27 September 2011. Then on 16/17 October 2011 Elenin will pass by the Earth at a range of 0.2 AU which is less than 20,000,000 miles. Close in astronomical terms. In December 2010 Elenin, as it was entering the Solar System, passed by Saturn and caused a massive volcanic eruption to occur. See the image below taken by the Hubble Space Telescope recently. Will Elenin cause massive volcanic eruptions on Earth as it passes by us in October ? Solar CME [coronal mass ejection] flying out in its direction will hit us too. On 5 November we enter the cloud of meteoric material that will be following in the rear of Elenin. Then on 23 November 2011 we get to be in another alignment with Elenin and the Sun. These are the days or nights that we need to know about. In the USA or anywhere. Remember Leonid Elenin is a Russian and living in the eastern sector and cannot be trusted with regard to intelligence. He is a KGB agent. If he says that it is a comet are we going to believe him ? You can if you want to. But I will not. Better safe than sorry. That Elenin caused the 11 March 2011 earthquake in Japan is beyond doubt thus Elenin cannot be simply a comet. Wake up people ! The gits at the top of society are making serious preparations to survive it so why don't you start making serious preparations too ? What if Elenin causes a tsunami 50 meters high to hit the coast of your country ? What if Elenin causes a magnitude 8 or more earthquake to hit where you live ? What if Yellowstone Caldera erupts ? Which it will, with or without Elenin. Thinking about these things will save your life. Ignoring these things will cost you your life. The gits at the top of society spend vast amounts of tax payers money investing in the machinery where by with which to mass murder millions. They call it national defence. It is really genocide, but they do not see it that way. If they can do that then why do you think that those very same gits would tell you the truth about something like Elenin ? Who can you trust ? Trust no one. Think for yourself. Set your mind free from the lies that they pour onto you day in and day out. They call it counter intelligence to contradict the real intelligence. Knowledge gives them power. Elenin is not a comet nor merely an asteroid. It is a rogue planet. Presently hidden in the glare of the Sun and coming straight towards us out from the Sun in the sky. Astronomers cannot see it even using space telescopes, but recently the STEREO solar observation satellite took a picture. In the picture the Sun is hidden behind a plate that stops the Sun from causing damage to the camera. Venus is very bright to the right side of the Sun and there is a shadow in the Solar Wind on the right side of the Sun which is a shadow being caused by Elenin hidden from view behind the plate ? In fact Elenin is to the left side of the Sun and is being attacked by CME coming out in its direction. Also I nearly forgotten to mention that no one has yet detected a comet tail. So how can that be ? Obviously because Elenin is certainly not a comet.

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS

reply to post by CAELENIUM


Debunked at length here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm beginning to doubt your back story.

reply to post by CAELENIUM


The claim that Nibiru is anywhere within 2100AU is simply false. There is no way it is within the orbit of Saturn. Go outside and look up. There are no bright new o0bjects in the sky.

Click here for more information.

This issue of Saturn's rotation has apparanetly been happily explained by some of you out there as merely someone forgetting that reflecting telescopes can invert images. So a 90 degree rotation is merely a 45 degree orientation in reflected. I'd like to add that this rotation was measured as gradually appearing over a month, not over a single night, so this must mean the observer had their telescope on a slightly diferent angle each night and this new angle was reflected every night to give the impression of a gradual tipping. Yeah, right.

Others said its because the telescope rotates as it tracks. Yes, so does the CCD attached to its base. Moreover, a 90 degree rotation can only be a reflection of a 45 degree orientation - no other angle. Any other angle, once reflected, gives a roation of some other apparent angle. I think you get the point. If Saturn is at 30 degrees to the horizontal in our line of sight, and it is reflected, then it will seem to have rotated maybe 120 degrees.

Next point to make here. Did anyone notice that the huge dust ring that formed around Saturn (not explained by the "I don't believe in the Nibiru" people) is not in the plane of its other rings. Its oriented at over 30 degrees to them. So, maybe thgis dust ring is still sitting in the plane where Saturn was before it rotated! So that suggests that Saturn rotated in one plane by at least 30 degrees, at any rate, if not 90 degrees. And if you want to argue that Nibiru doesn't exist because the tilt is just some knob who forgot his telescope reverses images, you still have to explain the storm to me at the same time as that dust ring appeared. No, you only have to use a telescope for about 5 minutes to realise it gives you left right and maybe up-down inversion. I don't think someone sticking a cametra on there is going to get too confused by that.

Sorry, I don't buy your explanation at this stage.

For my part, I'm going to check out satellite images since then, as satellites make automatic corrections for their position and the images usually get corrected even before they are transmitted back to us. Maybe more comment later.

reply to post by enkhuisen


Good post!
Shills? What say you?
I'm on the fence.

Well there is a lot I don't understand, there could be a cosmic cycle event occuring, BUT, there is so much odd behavior on behalf of bloodlines, and calling elnin 9/11, saying its disentrating, then posting it undamaged and blue in color, like the blue Kachina. There is evidence that its on the outer edges of a magnetic field, a large one, with bodies orbiting. Someone told me that 3 earth size planets were heading in. Elenin is almost at perhilion and if its orbitting the outer field of a giant magnetic field, then we will soon be in this as well. So its not the main thing, but a forerunner of the main event. Now the scientist who gave tesimony of what he saw, retracted afterwards.

How do you retract what you've said?

The Navy site with the pic of Blue elenin went offline afterwards and came back with no elenin pic.

Its the slight of hand confusion and lies that are creating an even worse scenario because its all done to confuse people on purpose.

A huge magnetic field like that may very well explain Saturn's tilt.


DR BYRON GLENN RETURNS AND EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT'S BEHIND ELENIN 9/3/11

He says he didn't see a brown dwarf. He saw objects orbitting a magnetic field. Is it Trouble he was asked. Only time will tell, he said!

www.ufo-blogger.com...

Originally posted by OccamAssassin


Secondly, gravity is actually magnetism? OK then, if the author is so sure that gravity is a farce and what we see as attractive masses can only be attributed to magnetism, then why doesn't plastic, non-ferrous ceramic, etc, float?

I could keep going...but what's the point.

Epic fail

edit on 27/7/2011 by OccamAssassin because: (no reason given)

Well this is what Dr. Michio Kaku have to say on the matter.

Dr. Michio Kaku 14 months ago

I will say that I have myself, checked and re-checked the facts here. I find your theory to be puzzling. You're right this is not what we we've always been taught. Your theory goes against the fact that we have always looked at gravity and magnetism as two separate forces. However, I have searched for and studied the Unified Theory of Everything almost my whole life, and seriously do wonder after my fact checking if your right. I heard about your concept on Youtube and entered Gravity is Magnetism into my yahoo search engine and was quite surprised to see that your theory holds second rank. Now I begin to search for math of this theory and it brings me to having to sit down with my colleagues and spinning the numbers. This may take a long time to prove or disprove. If you're right Keeker, the world will change dramatically. If magnetism really is at the heart of all creation, a lot of science books will need to be re-written. I for one want to be a part of that, so I have every intention of doing this math and doing my best to get to the bottom of your theory. If your not familiar with who I am , I am a professor at City University Of New York, and have done many spots on Sci Channel. If you look me up you will see me on Wiki-Pedia and this will prove my dedication on this subject.

So if such a renowned physicist actually believe it may be true, who are you to doubt it?

Originally posted by enkhuisen
This issue of Saturn's rotation has apparanetly been happily explained by some of you out there as merely someone forgetting that reflecting telescopes can invert images. So a 90 degree rotation is merely a 45 degree orientation in reflected. I'd like to add that this rotation was measured as gradually appearing over a month, not over a single night, so this must mean the observer had their telescope on a slightly diferent angle each night and this new angle was reflected every night to give the impression of a gradual tipping. Yeah, right.

It's field rotation, and yes, it happens over the course of a single night as well as night-to-night when imaged at different alt-az positions in the sky.

www.youtube.com...

Others said its because the telescope rotates as it tracks. Yes, so does the CCD attached to its base. Moreover, a 90 degree rotation can only be a reflection of a 45 degree orientation - no other angle.

You clearly do not understand the concept of field rotation. It will occur in any telescope in any non-polar aligned setup. Furthermore, camera orientation in a telescope is completely arbitrary, and some amateurs are not concerned with it because they are not attempting to show a right-side-right view anyway. You cannot take any given amateur image and state that the orientation must be due to optical configuration alone, camera orientation and field rotation are valid factors and complete unknowns unless specifically stated or astrometrically solved.

Next point to make here. Did anyone notice that the huge dust ring that formed around Saturn (not explained by the "I don't believe in the Nibiru" people)

It didn't just "form," it was only recently discovered. It's a very tenuous feature that required new technology and sensitive detectors to detect.

Sorry, I don't buy your explanation at this stage.

Learn what field rotation is and deny ignorance. I've already checked Saturn's orientation using an astrometrically solved image, it's normal, there's nothing wrong with it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by NeoVain
So if such a renowned physicist actually believe it may be true, who are you to doubt it?

edit on 6-9-2011 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, plus it's never been established that Kaku actually wrote that.

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by NeoVain
So if such a renowned physicist actually believe it may be true, who are you to doubt it?

edit on 6-9-2011 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, plus it's never been established that Kaku actually wrote that.

It is his words exactly.