Tiahuanaco, Puma Punku the real mystery...

reply to post by SLAYER69

Excellent Post, can't emphasize it enough. Like some of the others here, I've never seen the old photo's. The block lying on the hillside on the mound of dirt reveals the amount of erosion that has occurred around it and tells us that it has been in that position for a very long time. Looks like the place has been blown apart. As far as the alien theory goes, I personally don't buy it although I wouldn't dismiss it altogether. My thoughts are that if people like Leedskalnin and Tesla had free reign there's no telling where we would be right now. The thing is, once we understand the true nature of reality then we can manipulate it.Therefore, no aliens required, just men like Leedskalnin and Tesla are all that are needed. There very well may be something to the elongated skull people for obvious reasons, (larger brain capacity) plus tribes such as the Flathead Indians (Native Americans) who strapped boards to their children's heads might have been mimicking some superior race with superior intellect, kinda like the Egyptian elongated heads.

reply to post by Harte


I'd call it pretty legit evidence. This is the same method we used to assume how neanderthals look. Granted, there's a possibility they didn't have human-like skin, but ape like skin, the evidence of their skulls being so similar to ours is pretty sufficient. Back to this article, it does make a pretty good case. Because it's a hell of a lot easier to get to Peru from Australia than Australia from Peru. This being 50,000 years ago, and Australia being one of the earliest inhabited places, as well as sea currents, prove this.

Indeed that's why Easter Island is inhabited not by Australians aboriginals, but either Native Americans or Asians. Sea currents.

2.bp.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Harte

 

I'd call it pretty legit evidence. This is the same method we used to assume how neanderthals look.

No, it's not.

Skull morphology can easily tell us what an individual may have looked like. That says nothing about a single individual's ancestry.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Granted, there's a possibility they didn't have human-like skin, but ape like skin, the evidence of their skulls being so similar to ours is pretty sufficient. Back to this article, it does make a pretty good case. Because it's a hell of a lot easier to get to Peru from Australia than Australia from Peru. This being 50,000 years ago, and Australia being one of the earliest inhabited places, as well as sea currents, prove this.

Yet the article states that these people migrated up the western coast of the Pacific and crossed at the Bering Strait, not that they sailed from Australia.

The fact remains that what the scientific community actually thinks is that these individuals descended from the same Asian population that later migrated to Australia, not that "they came from Australia."

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I'm not aware of any major Asiatic origins in Australia.

Aboriginals are black, and Australia was one of the first places immigrated to by modern man.

What you're talking about happened in the last 20,000 years. These people are from 50,000 years ago. 50,000 years ago is consistent with the earliest immigration from Africa to Australia, and in turn, a migration from Australia to South America. 50,000 years ago racial identities were still differentiating, and it wouldn't be till 20,000 years ago that they significantly differentiated. The presence of European tool styles in North America and Asiatic traits and traditions in North Western parts significantly leads one to understand that the Americas have frequently been populated by many different sources, and that for this specific lineage down south, it was Australia. Simply put, you don't get Asiatic sources in America nor in the pacific until the meltdown after the ice age forced people to flee. 50,000 years ago, this was not the case.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Harte

 

I'm not aware of any major Asiatic origins in Australia.

Aboriginals are black, and Australia was one of the first places immigrated to by modern man.

What you're talking about happened in the last 20,000 years. These people are from 50,000 years ago. 50,000 years ago is consistent with the earliest immigration from Africa to Australia, and in turn, a migration from Australia to South America.

Australians migrated from around India, not Africa.

mtDNA has proven this.

Originally posted by Gorman91

50,000 years ago racial identities were still differentiating, and it wouldn't be till 20,000 years ago that they significantly differentiated. The presence of European tool styles in North America

There have been no ancient European tool styles found in the Americas.

Originally posted by Gorman91
and Asiatic traits and traditions in North Western parts significantly leads one to understand that the Americas have frequently been populated by many different sources, and that for this specific lineage down south, it was Australia. Simply put, you don't get Asiatic sources in America nor in the pacific until the meltdown after the ice age forced people to flee. 50,000 years ago, this was not the case.

So, you're not gonna read the link? I simply spelled out what it said and what current science believes (which is also in the link.)

Of course, DNA, again, will (hopefully) provide the answers.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Yes, my bad. But the Asian source of Australians came directly out of Africa, and these were not the same group as went into Asia.

The most obvious proof of this is the fact that Aboriginal Australians look like a mix between India and some parts of Africa, and many Indians essentially look like black Caucasians. Asiatic sources that would later find their way to America came from a different group.

In Africa, these two groups are as follows:

Asiatic
www.loe.org...

Caucasian
www.travelcentre.com.au...

The facial differences are obvious, and one of these groups found their way to Asia, and later North America, while the other found their way to India, and then split up into the Aboriginals, Caucasians, and some parts in South America.

There have been no ancient European tool styles found in the Americas.

Yes, there have.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, you're not gonna read the link? I simply spelled out what it said and what current science believes (which is also in the link.)

I read it. Currently there's a number of hypothesis in the scientific community, all with valid points. However, there is no consensus quite yet on a number of these issues, and discovering Cousin species dna like Neanderthals in us is no help to the mystery.

so everyone agrees the currents are the same forever?



no way they could reverse or change when the oceans were lower? or even flooding?

i still think people came from across the pacific to south america instead of alaska, (bering straits).

2 diff routes at 2 diff times.

ocean faring people are usually fishermen not land lubbers, untill routes are well known to other lands.

maybe they followed a migration of some animals?

reply to post by SLAYER69


referring to image :referring to image Puma Punku , squared basement with 4 small ladders in it.
[url=http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/da0febf040f0.jpg]
can some engineer please compute this :
If this is basement of room and such room had so "large walls" around it and such walls are in diorite.
How much pressure and temperature would they insulate from ?

Maybe we can understand where such industrially perfect prefabricated "flat basements " were supposed to be carried (moon, mars, mercury, ocean floor...)
thank you.

As the great pyramid´s build is not so unexpainable any more I would say that the builds of Puma Punku are explainable with common sense. No ´alien theory´ necessary.

Two builds, one is the temple like, build of smaller stones on huge slabs. As in giza it is think- and reasonable these were CUT from an existing natural hill underneath, too, no complicated stone importation necessary.Then build the smaller ones above.
In the video posted you can clearly see that the clamps were holding NATURAL pieces of stone together for eathquake stability reasons.

The other build seems to function as a water holding/ pump or somilar to me would make great sense. So maybe the extremely precise cut stones that interconnect to each other seem to have a HERMETIC function for the water..see pump function.

Another similar in nature megalithic structure is Aramu Muru near the Lake Titicaca. Lake Titicaca, on the borders of Peru and Bolivia, is where Inca legends say life on Earth was first created by Viracocha. In the center of the lake is the Island of the Sun, with an ancient, sacred temple. Nearby is Sillustani, where mysterious burial towers called chulpas were once plated with gold and held the remains of Inca royalty. A few miles away is Aramu Muru’s Portal, a doorway-shaped niche in a stone outcropping, located in a region known as the Valley of the Spirits. The local villagers who walked with us refused to come close to the portal. They tell stories about people disappearing through the solid rock.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Gorman91
The presence of European tool styles in North America

There have been no ancient European tool styles found in the Americas.

Well, there is that pesky Solutrean hypothesis which has not yet been put to rest. The fact is that there is no proof as yet, just some tantalizing ideas. We are currently re-writing the entire story of the peopling of the Americas, and dates like 40-50 kya that were once dismissed are now given serious consideration. One can't cite ancient European lithic industries in North American...but one can't (as yet) discard the notion either. Smarter people than me haven't.

The Solutrean Hypothesis in North American archaeology

This hypothesises similarities between the Solutrean industry and the later Clovis culture / Clovis points of North America, and suggests that people with Solutrean tool technology crossed the Ice Age Atlantic by moving along the pack ice edge, using survival skills similar to that of modern Eskimo people. The migrants arrived in northeastern North America and served as the donor culture for what eventually developed into Clovis tool-making technology. Archaeologists Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley suggest that the Clovis point derived from the points of the Solutrean culture of southern France (19,000BP) through the Cactus Hill points of Virginia (16,000BP) to the Clovis point. This would mean that people would have had to move from the Bay of Biscay across the edge of the Atlantic ice sheet to North America. Supporters of this hypothesis believe it would have been feasible using traditional Eskimo techniques still in use today, while others argue that the conditions at the time would not have made such a journey likely.
The idea of a Clovis-Solutrean link remains rather controversial and does not enjoy wide acceptance. The hypothesis is challenged by large gaps in time between the Clovis and Solutrean eras, a lack of evidence of Solutrean seafaring, lack of specific Solutrean features in Clovis technology, and other issues. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by apollo20fan
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

referring to image :referring to image Puma Punku , squared basement with 4 small ladders in it.
[url=http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/da0febf040f0.jpg]
can some engineer please compute this :
If this is basement of room and such room had so "large walls" around it and such walls are in diorite.
How much pressure and temperature would they insulate from ?

Maybe we can understand where such industrially perfect prefabricated "flat basements " were supposed to be carried (moon, mars, mercury, ocean floor...)
thank you.

Puma Punku slabs fit as lego bricks , I'd vote for the "ermetic function" too but I'd exploit it further.
A diorite "Fort" would be very resistent to an acid atmosphere.

You look for a place that ery is hot, acid, high pressure ...?
Just look straight up and there it is:

Venus.

I would not refuse "exo-builders" idea, in this galaxy alone there are billions of suns
most are older than ours and usually elder people carry more experience.

What we today call 'Puma Punku'
might well be the actual 'city' that went through the mythic/fable changes to become the Atlantis or even the Sodom of historical thought.

the History channel had a multi part segment about this site a few days ago (? maybe July24th-25th?)

what point they made was that modern stonecutting techniques could not match the sharply defined cuttings of this ancient graveyard of stone blocks...

they did not have diamond tip bores or sawblades to cut and fashion the Granite and Basalt back then... so how did they do it?
the segment brought up the idea of the ancient stone cutters 'poured' some of the stone blocks...
or otherwise moulded/formed a malleable lump of stone that had properties like clay... and then became 'hard'

i think that all ideas that try to compare present technology to past efforts is akin to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

the descent of human endeavors

Originally posted by St Udio

.. so how did they do it?
the segment brought up the idea of the ancient stone cutters 'poured' some of the stone blocks...
or otherwise moulded/formed a malleable lump of stone that had properties like clay... and then became 'hard'

i think that all ideas that try to compare present technology to past efforts is akin to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
the descent of human endeavors

edit on 28-7-2011 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

well, that would work maybe for poured limestone or similar, as in giza, but diorite..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0112fd958ba1.jpg[/atsimg]

this one definetley looks moulded, not carved out of a stone.. look at the implemented air bubbles.
Also the slightly wobbly edges/ windows of these stones look moulded. When you pour concrete for example, you have this edges that look like these..

This subject is very interesting because of the artifacts left behind. Many scientists and experts in todays world have said that even with today's precision laser cutting technology it would be hard to reproduce the results of things made by the inhabitants of that region. There are still too many questions that manking may never find the answer to and this may be one of them. The sheer size and scope of these massive stones alone and the resulting configuration seems pretty unlikely from people who lived a very basic lifestyle and had few if any tools.

I still hold to Noah's flood that wiped out all these type old sites. It would explain for everyone of these cases and more. Now the flood could have taken place 5000 years ago, or 15,000 years ago, it matters not, but it would answer all the question quite perfectly and factually as sea life is found (seashells, coral, etc) more often than not in such places.

reply to post by KJV1611



Pangea is the continets before they split. You may be surprised to know there is a reference in the Bible to that. The great-grandsons of Noah lived in a time "when the earth split" as the 1611 KJV says it.

There are many mysteries in the Bible that many Christians want to ignore...such as the "lion faced men" that one of David's soldiers fought. He says they are of the Hittites, but those people were not unknown to the Israelites. So it seems to me there is something striking to the fact they were given such a description. It does not say they fought like lions, only that they looked like lions.

I am also a believer in the Bible, but I will accept that there are mysteries that we can search the meaning of. For me to see these picture of Tiotihuacan means that there was a people who lived there and should be respected for their contribution to history.

Originally posted by Harte
There have been no ancient European tool styles found in the Americas.

Harte

That's not entirely true.

Clovis points resemble similar, european artifacts of the same time period ascribed to a neolithic people known as the Solutreans: a people located near Lascaux, France.

In a hypothesis first put forward by Dennis Stanford, of the Smithsonian Institution, and Bruce Bradley, of the University of Exeter in England, UK they propose a migration began during the last ice age.

It's interesting to note:

The hypothesis rests upon particular similarities in Solutrean and Clovis technology that have no known counterparts in Eastern Asia, Siberia or Beringia, areas from which or through which early Americans are known to have migrated.

Just seen your post, JC... pipped me there!

Just watched that 2hr radio podcast of the crazy hair dude from ancient alien fame and he mentions this Peruvian site, adding the most striking thing about it is the way these granite slabs have been cut. A contemporary stone mason was quoted as commenting it could be done today, just, but would take a very long time [and would be near impossible at the time these are believed to have been produced with the tools they had]. Incredible.

Originally posted by chocise

Originally posted by Harte
There have been no ancient European tool styles found in the Americas.

Harte

That's not entirely true.

Clovis points resemble similar, european artifacts of the same time period ascribed to a neolithic people known as the Solutreans: a people located near Lascaux, France.

In a hypothesis first put forward by Dennis Stanford, of the Smithsonian Institution, and Bruce Bradley, of the University of Exeter in England, UK they propose a migration began during the last ice age.

It's interesting to note:

The hypothesis rests upon particular similarities in Solutrean and Clovis technology that have no known counterparts in Eastern Asia, Siberia or Beringia, areas from which or through which early Americans are known to have migrated.

Just seen your post, JC... pipped me there!

Just watched that 2hr radio podcast of the crazy hair dude from ancient alien fame and he mentions this Peruvian site, adding the most striking thing about it is the way these granite slabs have been cut. A contemporary stone mason was quoted as commenting it could be done today, just, but would take a very long time [and would be near impossible at the time these are believed to have been produced with the tools they had]. Incredible.

edit on 28-7-2011 by chocise because: (no reason given)

And also atlatl.....

When I went to visit a particular Native Indian site in Virginia, I believe it was Black Wolf Native site, archeologists found atlatls. They understood that the atlatl was used by the Pheonicians and the Syrians and use of the atlatl was found extensively in the Americas.