Should screening for genetic sociopathy be mandatory for politicians and police?

I can't believe anyone is advocating more government intervention.

Don't we have enough problems already.....

reply to post by kwakakev



The page opens fine for me try it again here is the exact URL: mises.org...

reply to post by hawkiye

Originally posted by hawkiye
Why do we need a test? Anyone who aspires to those positions of power is a sociopath period! Best thing to do is eliminate those positions in society. And live the universal law of no harm no crime. Someone commits a crime his neighbors deal with him or her. Government, police, and ruling bodies etc. were created by psychopaths for the express purpose of gaining power over others and insulating themselves from the consequences of their harmful actions!

Society is a Blessing, But Government is Evil. Thomas Paine

edit on 25-7-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

indeed, create a world where it is impossible for them to not out themselves by not having niches/positions where they can embed/entrench themselves.

you do realize this is going to require a complete and radical shift in society/paradigms and what have you?

Soficrow: i agree about the dangers of testing, especially with today's imperfect and possibly fudged testing protocols.

a true test would probably be like the gom-jabbar/ test of humanity from dune [which itself is an imperfect test]:

skip to about 2:00

I think what some are missing is the fact that a genetic sociopath is discernable through mri and brainwave testing.

Genetic sociopathy is not a choice, nor subject to treatment. If you are a genetic sociopath, your amygdala isn't the same shape or structure that a non-sociopath's amygdala is, and doesn't function the same way.

That said, it doesn't necessarily mean you will harm society in general, merely your own family and circle of associates. That part doesn't require intervention and prevention by the state unless and until it reaches criminal levels. However, it isn't too much to ask that those seeking societally sensitive positions of power be cleared of being a socipath.

Sounds to me like some here are arguing for the right of uncaring predators like Bernie Madoff to be allowed to prey upon the unsuspecting, and folks Like Qaddafi, Idi Amin and other sociopathic despots have a right to seek and hold positions of national and international leadership.

Sociopaths are extremely dangerous: in some ways they are the archetypal vampire race that preys upon normal humanity; similar to, but not quite human.

In the event of being miscategorized, the only harm I see is that you wouldn't be able to hold power positions. No big deal if you aren't a sociopath, and it is easily proven wrong by actual behavior over time. If you think you were unfairly categorized despite the physical evidence, all you have to do is prove you actually care about others for an extended period. That's something a true sociopath would be unable to do for very long.

reply to post by apacheman


They would never allow this type of testing because it would mean that they would all be out of a job.

I make this statement with regards to government, military and the huge corporations ruining the world.

If so we'd lose a president...and a veep

We can't screen politicians and police for psychopathy...

Otherwise we would have a SEVERE shortage of people in these positions

Seriously though, this is something that needs to be done... although it would require re-shaping politics as we know. Politics of the 20th/21st century encompasses all those psycopathic traits- lying, deceitfulness, ambition for power, self-grandiosity, no conscience or guilt...

Kind of sounds to me like the abstract idea of politics is itself psychopathic...

reply to post by apacheman


This would actually be a very good idea. There's only one trouble with it. How do you think politicians considering what they are, are going to allow for it?

Should screening for genetic sociopathy be mandatory for politicians and police?

I doubt that would work, we wouldn't have very many politicians or police left.

reply to post by Ajax84


We would start by passing local ordinances at the city and county level.

I'm pretty sure that some politician somewhere will challenge the legality of such laws.

It would/will be very interesting to hear the court's take on the subject, and to find out what the media would do with it. Once a successful law had been crafted on the county level it could be advanced to the state level, where things would get very interesting.

I'd love to see which group/s would jump to the defense of the "rights" of sociopaths to be political leaders.

It sure would be nice if they would, but I don't think they should. I say this because, in my eyes, it would be kind of discriminatory. Not all of them are bad people. They have a good understanding of whats right and wrong, and some choose the wrong path because there just isn't a conscience holding them back.

Off-topic, but related to sociopaths:
I once read on this website an article about how after a person dies, the consciousness lives on. They mentioned a man who spent his entire life proving it. With that, I kind of made my own little theory. That when a consciousness doesn't live on, that's when a sociopath is born. I also read some articles about how effective '___' can be when they use it. There are cases where a sociopath was completely cured in just one treatment. So with that, I changed my theory a little bit. I believe that instead of sociopaths not having a conscience, that they have one that was damaged somehow in between death and life.

But back on topic. I can see how a mentally challenged person is rejected some jobs, even if capable, because of their condition. So I guess it wouldn't be full on discriminatory having a sociopath being rejected a job for the same reasons, but for some reason, my gut keeps telling me it's just wrong. I'm not entirely sure about this one. Just my thoughts at the moment.

...to answer the thread's title question - no...

...while i applaud your efforts, apacheman, the testing plan is unrealistic for so many reasons (most of which have already been posted)...

...experts in the field cant even all agree on the differences between psychopathy and sociopathy or if there is a difference... their opinions are just that - opinions - albeit very educated ones that sometimes even appear to be backed up by facts...

Originally posted by apacheman
I called my Senators and Representative this morning asking for a federal law mandating screening for those professions.

...if you werent already on a watch list, you are now...

Originally posted by apacheman
I ask the help of ATS to draft an effective law to this effect, and then present it to their various legislatures and on the national level.

...i wont be participating - because - your plan lacks logic and empathy... heres why... you think senators and reps are going to help but your plan is directed at them - no logic there... your plan would target people who have never committed a crime - no empathy there... while i believe that our justice system is really a "guilty until proven innocent" deal - your plan is unconstitutional...

...even so - good on you for trying...

My answer to your question is yes. I see a conundrum here too. With police officers, and I suspect many powerful leaders, they practice 'detachment' from people, so that they do not allow emotion to affect their actions and processes. I can appreciate that to some degree, but what keeps that notion from making an individual(particularly those who are pre-diposed to sociopathy)so sealed off that they become less effective, if not down right malicious?
I have worked for co's and observed the personalities of the big wigs, and most of them seem hard and cold. I have thought that is what it takes to rise to the top, but at what costs? It seems power and money does corrupt when it gets to a certain level. One could argue that in some cases it is better for an authority figure to practice detachment, but I think moderation would and should apply to that also.

Peace,
spec

reply to post by Ajax84


We would start by passing local ordinances at the city and county level.

I'm pretty sure that some politician somewhere will challenge the legality of such laws.

It would/will be very interesting to hear the court's take on the subject, and to find out what the media would do with it. Once a successful law had been crafted on the county level it could be advanced to the state level, where things would get very interesting.

I'd love to see which group/s would jump to the defense of the "rights" of sociopaths to be political leaders.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks

I was on their granddaddies' watchlist,

The reason I called Washington was not because I have any expectations of them paying any attention whatsoever. They aren't my target.

The staffers are my real targets: I'm infecting them with a new meme.

Having heard it, they can't help thinking about it.

Thinking about it leads to talking about it with others.

If enough interesting talk or debate is generated to hit the party circuit, then my goal is accomplished.

The idea is no longer foreign. It's been heard on a societal level that is difficult to unhear.

The dialogue can then begin in earnest.

I am antiscocial because I dont want to go out and smoke weed and the my best friend is miles away and I do not have a car. I am psychotic now?

reply to post by mr10k


I don't know...you ever feel remorseful for something?

If you can feel remorse, you aren't a genetic sociopath.

You might be an environmentally created one, but not genetic.

reply to post by apacheman


Yes they should, absolutely. Great post Apacheman,,, my thoughts exactly.

Star and flag to you

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by mr10k

 

I don't know...you ever feel remorseful for something?

If you can feel remorse, you aren't a genetic sociopath.

You might be an environmentally created one, but not genetic.

I disagree that there is any difference between environmental and genetic sociopaths.

Epigenetics is an emerging field that sheds light on how the environment and genetics work together in every organism. Certain genes are activated based on environment. It is quite possible that everyone (or nearly everyone) has the genetic potential to become a sociopath depending on environmental factors in childhood/adolescence (It is probably a survival adaptation to a hostile environment in many cases). Do some just pop out of the womb sociopathic? Possible, but I think that would be quite rare.

Yes, historically, sociopaths have been difficult if not impossible to treat. However, it is way to early in the science end of it to declare that there is no way to treat the brain differences and declare them all hopeless. People once thought schizophrenics were hopeless, but there are several new therapies and even diet protocols that are helping some schizophrenics (who also have brain differences) overcome their difficulties. To say that sociopaths are physically incapable of feeling remorse or caring might not be the case. More research is needed, but I suspect that some way will be found to modify or overcome this in the future. The human brain has been shown to be amazingly adaptable (such in cases of brain damage where parts of the brain took on different functions from normal to compensate).

A person who goes temporarily insane as you described somewhere in this thread would not be a sociopath by any definition as far as I know.

Of course, as others have pointed out, there is a lot of controversy around this diagnosis and all of that would have to be hammered out along with all the other issues.

what would be more efficient is a mandatory psych evaluation at set intervals, and once predetermined thresholds are crossed, the person looses their job. in the case of politicians, they forfeit their ability to run for reelection.