Additonal Experiments with Nano Therm. vs. WTC Dust

Originally posted by IvanKminek

Originally posted by DrEugeneFixer
reply to post by IvanKminek

 

Obtaining samples of the actual paint chips and dust from that day may prove too tall an order, due to the scarcity of such material, and its historical significance, especially to the individuals who may have collected it. But, I wish you luck with the search.

Thanks. I am not prepared to do much for collecting such samples, it is more less just my hobby.

Very interesting.

I wonder if it would be possible simply to test ordinary primer paint from steel beams that are not necessarily from 9/11. If I understand correctly, the process is simply to test the paint with a spectrograph, or similar, and thus determine its chemical composition, if the composition of the paint chips is sufficiently similar to Jones' "nanothermite", then it would seem to demonstrate that his nanothermite is actually paint chips!

Analysis of similar paint can give us more clues (I have even prepared imitation of Laclede paint and observed some of its properties, e.g. thermal behavior), but only analysis of authentic paint could be really convincing.

I have a thought concerning your discussion above, you say

6) Red layers in the chips were mostly attached to gray layers (rusted steel).

Now I don't understand how rusted steel will be gray, but let me offer another suggestion: the 'gray layer' may be of a cement-like substance that is spray-appplied to steel structures for the purpose of fireproofing. Early in the construction of WTC, Asbestos was used for this purpose, but it was later replaced. I am not sure of the makeup of the fireproofing material actually used in the towers, but Gypsum is one possibility.

Oxidized (rusted) steel can have various forms, Sunstealer as mettalurgist points out here to micaceous iron oxide, which is an usual gray form of oxidized steel. I think that fireproofing (asbestos or vermiculite foams in WTC) layer must be always applied over corrosion proofing (thin) paint layer. This was also a case of WTC floor trusses, no layer was applied under primer layer (it is not described in the paint specification). Fireproofing was of course applied over primer.

edit on 14-10-2011 by IvanKminek because: (no reason given)

reply to post by IvanKminek


Thanks again, especially concerning the gray forms of Iron Oxide. Very interesting material.

I would have thought that the reddish paint currently used for steel primer would have been a close enough match, but perhaps not.

Keep up the good work and hope to hear more from you soon.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Baghdad Bob! You changed your name, but not the style. Good Ol' Baghdad Bob, they are talking science on this thread. Something you know nothing about.

Paint? Oh, Bob you are trying to reinvent yourself as a comedian?

The jig is up Baghdad.

The Active Thermitic Peer Reviewed paper is going through translation now in Chinese. I have a team of graduate nano technology chemists working on it now.

I asked the team to please find major flaws in the science. There is nothing more I would like to hear than the science was flawed and I no longer had to consider the sinister 911 Inside Job implications of the nano thermate.

To my regrets, the scientists claimed the paper was prepared with great care and there were no glaring flaws in the science at all. Naturally, they said they would like to duplicate the original experiments to reconfirm the numbers, but with that said, the paper was fine. After the translation is finished it will be distributed to nano tech specialists inside the Chinese Science Academy for their consideration.

Then I showed them a video of the collapse of Building 7 and gave them the official NIST explanation of why the building attained free fall speed. Everyone laughed after being told the story. "Impossible" was the most used word among them as they laughed derisively and loudly.

reply to post by beijingyank


So "graduate nano technology chemists" are also building collapse specialists? Can show show any evidence that a group of "graduate nano technology chemists" reviewed the paper and all agreed it was sound? Maybe you can post their reviews?

reply to post by beijingyank


LOL can't wait to see the youtube videos that your team of graduate nanotech beijing wiz kids produces.

Just kidding, I think you made them up.

reply to post by IvanKminek

Jones also said he discovered a supper Nano thermite. Jones said the heat from the flash test burned hotter than normal thermite. Jones said the thermite he discovered could have easily weakened the steel.

I suppose that you are just joking and trolling

Your ignorance precedes you, you just demonstrated that you have never read Jones Journal much less understand it.

Steven Jones Tells 9/11 "Debunkers" to Put up or Shut up!

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Trolling?

No, only one liners who posts t ignorant remarks and do not contribute to the OP.

I enjoy our progress in JREF and it is something like my "hobby" now.

The fact is JREF website strictly supports the OS of 911 with their “opinions,” nothing more needs to be said.

reply to post by impressme


Here's the thing, impressme- you haven't addressed anything that Ivan wrote in his two long posts. Except to say "just your opinion". All well and good for you, but not persuasive in the least.

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by IvanKminek

 

Jones also said he discovered a supper Nano thermite. Jones said the heat from the flash test burned hotter than normal thermite. Jones said the thermite he discovered could have easily weakened the steel.

I suppose that you are just joking and trolling

Your ignorance precedes you, you just demonstrated that you have never read Jones Journal much less understand it.

Steven Jones Tells 9/11 "Debunkers" to Put up or Shut up!

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Trolling?

No, only one liners who posts t ignorant remarks and do not contribute to the OP.

I enjoy our progress in JREF and it is something like my "hobby" now.

The fact is JREF website strictly supports the OS of 911 with their “opinions,” nothing more needs to be said.

No, we (we in JREF "paint thread") do not support OS of 911. OS does not care about paints, this is our job. Simply, a plain common sense tells us: red primer paints were provingly applied on WTC steel in large ammounts. Red chips found by Harrit et al (and also by Henryco and Mark Basile) looked like red primer paints (attached to oxidized steel), had a composition of two particular red primer paints and behaved like these paints. If you have some specific (and well-supported) objections against these findings, address them here.

To Beijingyank: tell your nanochemists (they should read some English, if they are experts, why to translate Bentham paper for them into Chinese?) that they must invite some polymer chemists into the team, since some polymer binder apparently prevailed in the chips (as expected for paints). Consequently, behavior of polymeric binders (namely thermal behavior in this case) is critically important for correct evaluation of the experimental results.

reply to post by -PLB-


The graduate students remarks about the building collapse was along the lines of "it would only take a high school physics teacher to know the official explanation was pure fengpi" (Chinese for Bull Sh_t) You want to buy a vowel?

The jig is up.

It's now a matter of who was involved and for arrests to be made.

reply to post by beijingyank


So you are unable to produce any evidence that anything you say actually happened. Besides the possibility you are making this all op, why do you think that nano tech grads have anything useful to say about building collapses? When you are sick, do you go to an archaeologist for advice? Or to someone who studied medicine?

reply to post by -PLB-


The jig is up.

The forensic evidence has shown the government is rogue. The criminal demeanor of the government and the neocon baby killing war criminals in charge are guilty.

Debate is over Bunky. It's time for rope.

The jig is up.

reply to post by beijingyank


You would be right if you were prosecutor, jury, judge and executioner all in one. In reality you would not stand a chance in court, as nobody is buying your evidence. If you have any that is.

reply to post by beijingyank


At this point I think:

1. The jig is down.

2. You have no 'graduate nanotech' experts.

3. You're just a troll.

Show some links to all this scholarship or it never existed.

Dr. Harrit in Chinareply to post by DrEugeneFixer


Chinese
我叫Niels Harrit.
我在化学方面获得了硕士和博士学位。
我现在是一名哥本哈根大学的副教授，
至今为止已经40年了。
我现在65岁。
我在最好的期刊中出版过近60篇同行评议论文，
目前我正在参加X-射线时间分辨光谱研究，
对一个一百万的百万分之一秒的时间尺度。
这是非常快的。
大约3年半前，我无偶然看到7号楼崩塌，
在一个由Steven E. Jones的演讲报告光盘上，
那是他在杨百翰大学所做的演讲。
这个报告立即吸引力我的注意，
（那是因为）首先，在这之前我从未听说过这幢建筑，
其次，我不明白这是怎么一回事儿，
因为很显然，它完全没有倒塌的原因。
作为一名科学家，我训练自己以试图了解在我身边发生了什么，
但我依旧不能理解。
并且从那天起我便没有了空闲时间，
因为那以后我开始调查这个事件。
我开始工作，在哥本哈根，丹麦当地现场，
我也参加了一个科学团队，
（这个团队）包括Steven E. Jones, Kevin Ryan等人。
一共九人做调查灰尘的研究，
（灰尘）来自曼哈顿南部的崩塌物。
在尘土中，我们发现了我们所描绘的未反应的thermitic材料，
呈现出一些非常微小的红黑芯片的形状但有着不同的性质，
最重要的是他们中的一些发生反应了，
并在反应后生成了铁水，
这是一个themitic反应的基本指标，
且此反应常用于毁坏钢结构。
现在这种铝热剂，即老式的铝热剂，
是一种铝粉和铁锈粉末的混合物。
如果你想要让这种混合物发生反应，
这并不容易，
它产生的巨大热量，就是你所谓的燃烧弹。
燃烧弹是一种被用来破坏高温手段产生的物质的东西，

而爆炸则是与压力相联系的。
它能使事物因爆破而分离。
现在的这种老式的燃烧弹并不是爆炸。
它仍然被用于军事目的中的熔铁结构。
我们发现的现代版的铝热剂，
被我们称为纳米铝热剂,是由不同的方法产生的。
它不仅仅是两种粉末的混合。
这种材料的构成实际上是原子的按比例增大。
我们称作自底向上的步骤，
正是你用纳米技术做成的。
纳米技术有两种结果，
将它与传统的铝热剂相区别。
首先，材料更小，
意味着它们反应更加激烈且更容易燃烧。
其次，由于纳米铝热剂的生产过程
你可以选择放入其它材料或者其它化学物质，
从而将铝热剂反应转化为一个爆炸反应。
我们不知道红黑芯片在其中扮演者怎样的角色，
那些在灰尘中发现的红黑芯片，但是，我们知道，
并且在我们开始调查这些灰尘之前已经完全清楚，
爆炸物和燃烧弹都被用来控制世贸中心的拆除。

由于其它观察，这是非常明显的，
即基于灰尘中的熔铁和其他发现，
爆炸物和燃烧弹都被使用了。
现在红黑芯片适合放在这个场景中的哪一部分还是我们未知的。
已经有许多关于这个的猜测，
特别是因为纳米铝热剂是一种万能的材料，
能被用在不同的配置中。
人们推测它可能被喷涂在建筑物上。
这些都被我称为假设爆炸情节
也许我们不应该陷入其中。
尽管这样，有一点我想说。
最近正由David Chandler严密调查的
世贸中心南塔的坍塌，
显示出在这座塔的碎片中，
显然有因受到爆炸反应而冲击出来的
飞行器的碎片。
首先，这些碎片有着可能是氧化铝的白色尾部，
是由铝热反应产生的。
其次，十分明显，他们有火箭的性质，
依我看来燃烧弹与爆炸物之间的区别
在这种情况下没有任何意义。
我们正在处理的东西，我认为，在世贸中心
是一种不为大众所知的军事材料。
红黑芯片——这个我们在灰尘中发现的未反应的纳米铝热剂，
仅仅表明某些地方有错。
它不应该存在。
但是我目前的感觉告诉我，在2010年我们正在记录的这些，
才是我们从未听说过的整个故事。
灰尘中纳米铝热剂的发现清楚地证明，
911事件中发生的一些事情是不寻常的。
并且它是一种无法解释的发现
通过任何其余的解释，或者进行其它过程，
比起不解释来说，都是故意以使双塔倒塌为目的。

我们所需要的结果，就我个人，一个科学家而言，
谈到一个新的调查，将会到来的，
也应该包括寻找剩余的爆炸物
和灰尘中的thermitic材料
由国家标准与技术研究所来进行。
谢谢。

Jig is up Dr. Fixowitz. It's time for rope.

Please bear in mind the "Leni Riefenstahl/Baghdad Bob" characters like you don't fair well when the political cataclysm of change comes. The history books will laugh at all the bought and paid scientist shills pushing the official 911 fairy tale. You will be mentioned and categorized in the same group as "The Flat Earthers."

The jig is up. You had a nice run. But so did Frankenstein before the masses of torches and pitchforks showed up.

The public opinion is gaining strength against you and your charade. Not too many people are standing behind the official 911 coverup and fairy tale that isn't getting paid by the government.

It's just a matter of time before the public begins to hunt the propaganda collusion monsters to mass murder, illegal wars, and war crimes down like wild game in the woods.

Keep sticking that head of yours up like a nail protruding from a 2x4 Mr. Fixit Man because it's just a matter of time before it gets whacked.

The Chinese translation is almost complete. It will go to members inside the Chinese Science Academy for their review.

Then what are you Baghdad Bob's going to do, resort to calling the Chinese names?

The jig is up Bunky. The hangman cometh.

Originally posted by beijingyank

The Chinese translation is almost complete. It will go to members inside the Chinese Science Academy for their review.

Be sure to let your scientist know they have to use special Truther Math and Truther Physics when studying super nano thermighty red primer paint chips, otherwise their results will be way off.

The jig is up Bunky. The hangman cometh.

Good Luck with your Witch Hunt Truther.

Originally posted by beijingyank

The jig is up Bunky. The hangman cometh.

Big talk, for an anonymous internet commenter.

1. The jig is down.

2. You have no 'graduate nanotech' experts.

3. You're just a troll.

PS. Threats are a violation of the terms of service, so you shouldn't make them.

reply to post by waypastvne


I am a 911 Victim Family Member. I am also a Patriot.

Scientific fact nano thermate is in the 911 dust.

China and the world is laughing at the American idiots that bought the fairy tale hook, line and sinker. Paint you say? Very poor apology and one needs an umbrella because it is raining BS.

I wish we were talking about paint. But we are not. No ifs, buts, or maybes about it. The forensic evidence is clear and points to the government. A government full of lies, deception, threats, extortion, torture, secret prisons, kidnappings, spying on Americans without warrants, extrajudicial murder, illegal wars, genocide, DU chucking vermin and if that isn't enough, add the indignity of TSA tumor machines for the American people or if they opt out, the words "and now I am going to touch your genitalia with the back of my hand, mame."

There is no statute of limitations to mass murder, baby killing, war crimes, and crimes against humanity Bunky.

If you don't know it, you're incredibly dense, still living in denial, or on the payroll of Cass Sunstein. The Patriots are coming for the psychopaths.

Paint? Not everyone has an IQ of 90 like Dubya, Bunky. It would be very funny to me if not for the millions that have died because of the hoax we now know as 911.

The Chinese are laughing at the American population's poor knowledge and ability in math and science. They have confirmation about you guys being fat, and lazy, but now they are howling at the populace's stupidity.

I don't enjoy hearing the Chinese scientists split a gut over the punch line of "paint."

I lost family on 911. As a ex-pat, veteran, I can't believe what happened to my country.

All evil has to do to win is for good men to do nothing. And Bunky, you ain't wearing a white hat.

Wow! Paint blew up the WTC that is hilarious!

Next thing the JREFers will claim is office firers and low temperatures jet fuel weakened every floor joint to break simultaneously and at the same time pulverized all the concrete in midair before the towers hit the ground.
What I see here is a few debunkers who want the readers on ATS to throw out their logic to believe in a fairytale, a Fairytale that science cannot support.

Originally posted by impressme
Wow! Paint blew up the WTC that is hilarious!

That's not what anybody said, Impressme.

Let's get on the same page here.

Your theory is that the red stuff in the dust is thermite/thermate/super/nano/stuff, that did not for some reason react and do its job. The opposing theory is that the red stuff is paint chips from the structural steel, which quite naturally, did not explode or blow up the building.

Now since we know that red primer paint is widespread in steel construction, and Ivan has presented an argument that the red stuff is indeed compatible with identification as primer paint, why don't you address his posts? Or explain why there wouldn't be any primer paint chips in the dust samples?

I don't think you need to resort to caricatures or straw men.

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer

That's not what anybody said, Impressme.

Let's get on the same page here.

Originally posted by IvanKminek
Originally posted by impressme

No, we (we in JREF "paint thread") do not support OS of 911. OS does not care about paints, this is our job. Simply, a plain common sense tells us: red primer paints were provingly applied on WTC steel in large ammounts. Red chips found by Harrit et al (and also by Henryco and Mark Basile) looked like red primer paints (attached to oxidized steel), had a composition of two particular red primer paints and behaved like these paints. If you have some specific (and well-supported) objections against these findings, address them here.

No, we are on the same page.

I like how some of you debunkers “speculate” your opinions to what you believe is wrong with Jones science, yet none of you people can support your ridiculous claims with any real science. The reason why is because none of you have the dust samples that Professor Jones was given to run your own analysis and then do a peer review report that could prove Jones’ Journal is flawed.

Yes, Jones talked about red paint and he even suggested it may have been an application that was mix with the supper Nano-thermite.
Jones was able to separate all the particles in the dust samples and he does demonstrate that in his Journal. The one particle Jones’ discovered that was really important was the supper Nano- thermite.
Jones was able to conclude what type of thermite it was because of the small nano grains in the particles; however he couldn’t compare this type thermite to any known thermite used on the market today. That is why he said we are talking military science now. The Nano- thermite particles were the finest he had seen, it burned at a faster rate and at hotter temperatures than normal thermite.

Your opinions on this subject are not the facts, because you cannot validate any of it with real science.