India: An Aryan Conspiracy, Ancient Technology and Secret Brotherhoods

reply to post by Hanslune


reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


I'm still researching but there are differences between the sacred texts version translated by Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli and that of the original texts.

How can I see the original texts? Well, here:

The Mahabharata of Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa Adi Parva 1889

The Mahabharata of Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa Vana Prava

The Mahabharata of Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa Anucasana Prava

Further to the above, if you cross reference these with the Sacred-Texts website versions their are differences in the translations. There seems to be only 3 online versions, all of which I have just posted BUT I found the below website:

Trove: National Library of Australia's link to the available Mahabharata versions in Australia and Online

As mentioned, there are only 3 'major' parvas of these works available online so I checked the link above at the National Library of Australia and I discovered that several of these books (or even whole collections) are available at 2 libraries here in my own state of South Australia.

Tomorrow I will be making phone calls and planning a visit this weekend. Given the differences in the physical Mahabharata and the electronic version on Sacred-texts I am compelled to believe that Erich Von Danicken and David Hatcher Childress are referring to these physical translations.

It is unfortunate that the Drona Prava or the Mausala Prava are not available in original versions given Hanslune's linked article quoted the Mausala Prava BUT the 'Historian' that is mentioned in Hanslune's debunking article, the same Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli, which the article states he said:

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

He actually went on to say:

He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata.

"The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."

so not the Mausala Prava. Link.

You see, what stops me from being completely sceptical is my gut instinct. My gut screams at me when I find a full version of the translation:

The thunderbolt of Indra was endowed with the force of thousand-eyed Indra’s thunder.
*The bolt of death measured three cubits by six. It was the unknown weapon, the iron thunderbolt of Indra, the messenger of death.
*The projectile was charged with all the power of the Universe.
*The Agneya weapon was capable of being resisted by none of the very gods themselves.
*The Brahma-danda or Brahma’s rod was even more powerful.
*Though it struck only once, it smote whole countries and entire races from generation to generation.
*Adwattan let loose the blazing missile of smokeless fire.
*The missile burst with the power of thunder.
*The flying missile ruined whole cities filled with forts.
*The three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas were destroyed together in one instant.
*An incandescent column of smoke and fire as brilliant as ten thousand suns rose in all its splendor.
*Clouds roared upward showering dust and gravel.
*Dense arrows of flame like a great shower issued forth upon creation, encompassing the enemy on all sides.
*The sky blazed and the ten points of the horizon filled with smoke.
*Meteors flashed down from the sky.
*Fierce winds began to blow, and the very elements seemed disturbed.
*The sun appeared to waver in the heavens.
*The earth and all its mountains and seas and forests began to tremble.
*The wind blew as a fierce storm and the earth glowed.
*No one saw the fire—it was unseen. Yet it consumed everything.
*As rain poured down it was dried in mid-air by the heat.
*Birds croaked madly, and beasts shuddered from the destruction.
*Animals crumpled to the ground, their heads broken, and they died over a vast region.
*Elephants burst into flame, running to and fro in frenzy seeking protection.
*The waters of rivers and lakes boiled and the creatures residing therein perished.
*Thousands of war vehicles fell down on either side.

cont....

reply to post by LightAssassin

*Whole armies collapsed like trees in a forest burnt where they stood as in a raging fire.
*Corpses were so burnt they were no longer recognizable.
*The gaze of the Kapilla weapon was powerful enough to burn fifty thousand men to ashes.
*The thunderbolt reduced to ashes the entire race of Vrishnis and Ankhakas.
*To escape the breath of death the warriors leapt into rivers to wash themselves and bury their armor.
*Hair and nails fell out.
*Unborn children were killed in the womb.
*Birds were born with white feathers, red feet and in the shape of turtles.
*Pottery broke without cause.
*All foods became poisoned and inedible.
*The land was afflicted by drought thereafter for ten long years.

Link
The rest of the above link is rather interesting too.

Honestly, that is an incredibly elaborate, not that it can't be, mistranslation of the Mahabharata.

Also, the article supplied by Hanslune, weak. We have to consider this civilisation is either advanced human OR alien therefore you need to think outside the box.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by captainnotsoobvious

 

It's real easy to slander a post without providing that little thing we here on ATS call EVIDENCE.

Until you supply said EVIDENCE then you are no more than a troll.

I look forward to your informative and detailed rebuke of the OP.

edit on 7-12-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

You can start Here.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Please, read my post above yours.

reply to post by LightAssassin






Can you provide any references, qualifactions, or doctorates for Babu Kasari Mohan Ganguli?

as Babu is simply a Hindi courtesy title for a man equivalent to 'Mr' - a Hindu clerk who is literate

in English

reply to post by eletheia


I shut down all my links about half an hour ago.

Mr Ganguli was a qualified translator and the story behind it is that Ganguli did most of the hard work but Protap Chandra Roy got to take all the credit for it. Later versions, it seems, of the Mahabharata have been changed slightly, possibly by Ganguli in one of the many revisions done.

I'm still investigating but it's 1.03AM and I needed to take a break from it.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by eletheia

 

I shut down all my links about half an hour ago.

Mr Ganguli was a qualified translator and the story behind it is that Ganguli did most of the hard work but Protap Chandra Roy got to take all the credit for it. Later versions, it seems, of the Mahabharata have been changed slightly, possibly by Ganguli in one of the many revisions done.

Roy got the credit through a typo/misprint on the cover page, until it was noticed.

Also, Ganguli never talked about mushroom clouds. He died in the 1800's.

I read your post preceding mine. I was trying to respond to the poster that said that Hans was dismissing this with no evidence.

I posted before I saw your post.

If you use the search function, you'll find that I've posted concerning this misrepresentation of the Mahabharata - connected to D.H. Childress - many times and have included links to texts, etc. in many of those posts.

Just in case you're interested.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Actually, and this is totally insane info... Why do I now know this... But actually it wasn't a typo. Ganguli wanted to remain anonymous... A few media folks claimed that Roy was trying to steal credit, and thats where the rumour started.

If you google Ganguli you'll find his corespondence online and he explains it all pretty clearly. Not a typo, not a power-grab, but some selective media memory.

The rest is absolutely spot on.

reply to post by LightAssassin


The issue is that those verses appeared in the 1960s, and the only version going then was the Ganguli. In addition some of those lines are taken verbatim from Ganguli, but they're not next to each other. For instance some lines which are next to each other in the hoax are actually separated by THREE DECADES in the narrative.

If you look around this has been clearly debunked repeatedly. The original hoax came from some French guys who were trying to sell an ancient astronaut book. Most of it was BS. This included.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Hey bright lass Bp. How you doin. Just found this thread. A nice one, but haven't read the full op yet.

The Vedic culture is thought to have derived from foreign soil according to the Aryan invasion yet there are NO FINDINGS that can be associated with Aryan people coming to India.

Yes the vedic culture did come from a foreign land namely Russia.
I've worked with the russian people for several years and some of
them have confirmed to me that in some villages in the extreme north of russia,
classical sanskrit is still spoken to this day. Their mother toungue is sanskrit.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by Harte

 

Actually, and this is totally insane info... Why do I now know this... But actually it wasn't a typo. Ganguli wanted to remain anonymous... A few media folks claimed that Roy was trying to steal credit, and thats where the rumour started.

If you google Ganguli you'll find his corespondence online and he explains it all pretty clearly. Not a typo, not a power-grab, but some selective media memory.

The rest is absolutely spot on.

Sounds believable to me, I only assumed a typo.

Harte

Well talk about the world moving on when you are late:

Thanks to Harte and the Captain for dealing with the Indian quotes

Now Mr. Zorgon which report are you basing your belief on radioactive residue?

You like the glass

So as that green glass can be created by any high energy burst, nuclear or impact one could then look at the 'target', so what is there? Archaeologically nothing. Here is a question for you - how thick is the layer of fused glass? Why is there nothing under it? What is it made of?

Please look at what the nuke did to Hiroshima and Nagisaki - a large amount of debris (considering the cities were made mainly of wood) now why is there nothing underneath, or surrounding these 'impact' sites? There is no sign of a culture.

Now one could say that they used a Hydrogen bomb to really flatten the place - but a surface or near surface H bomb (being many magnitude greater) explosion would leave a heck of crater.

Another question is there green class at Hiroshima or Nagi? Nope. Why is that?

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection


them have confirmed to me that in some villages in the extreme north of russia,
classical sanskrit is still spoken to this day. Their mother toungue is sanskrit.

Interesting claim; so what is the name of these villages and the study that confirms this?

reply to post by LightAssassin

Also, the article supplied by Hanslune, weak. We have to consider this civilisation is either advanced human OR alien therefore you need to think outside the box

.

You said you were an amateur so I gave you a basic version. The report is 'weak' because it fails to support your ideas. So care to provide the extensive volumes of data showing us this technologically advanced civililzation?

Amazing considering the amount of materials left by other civilizations and this one left nothing at all? Consider me amazed. So the question to you is

Where is the hard archaeological evidence of this civilization?

The last link you provided;

Made up nuke stuff

Is a good example of reporting false information

Some points:

The ancient Indians saw lightning and viewed its affects, like many other cultures they assumed lightning was the weapon on the gods

They may have observed meteor strikes and volcano erupting

They would have been subjected to drinking water tainted with (natural) radioactivity, toxics and disease

So they had a wide range of horrible incidents to fill their imaginations and associate with the actions of the gods

You may also want to think about why the Mahabharata is full of descriptions of warriors using bows and swords, riding horses and elephants - kinda low tech.....

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


reply to post by Hanslune


Just to interest you more... in Lithuania, at least 50% of the language is Sanskrit and it's derieved from it
Ask the mod, benevolent tyrant...he's from there.

reply to post by BlackPoison94


Yes I know about the connection between these languages an Sanskrit. I was questioning the specific claim of villages:

some villages in the extreme north of russia, classical sanskrit is still spoken to this day. Their mother toungue is sanskrit

Not that Russian has a root connection to Sanskrit

reply to post by Hanslune


Yes, and flying 'cars'. The Gods and their flying 'cars' obviously had privileged use of these vehicles.

I will go read the physical copies at my local libraries. I will take photos if I find anything. If not, guess what, I am with you all the way on this, regarding the sensationalising of this text BUT it does not throw into doubt the use of advanced technology as described in the Samarangana Sutradhara.

There are descriptions throughout all the books confirming the possibility of advanced beings using flying craft and waging war with projectiles with mysterious powers. You can deny, possibly rightly, the 'incandescent column of smoke' but you cannot deny the incredible details given in the Samarangana Sutradhara, of which I am tracking down a copy for reference.

I would like to find where the adulterated version of the Mahabharata came from, but for the time being I have traced it back to David Childress' book 'The Anti-Gravity handbook'.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Well done; here is a report on how Childress appears to have created that misleading 'poem'

Faking ancient Indian poems

A quote from that article

Pauwels and Bergier seem to have intentionally mistranslated Sanskrit sentences into French to create a false impression, but were honest enough to allow that the sentences weren't related to each other and to leave in some baffling details, like the disintegration of the thunder-bolt. But Berlitz, Childress, and their followers are content to mangle a bad English translation of a French mistranslation of a Sanskrit original without ever checking the original source material. Texts are conflated, separate incidents combined into one. No context is considered or analyzed. Details that do not support the AATs’ ideas are eliminated with no indication that they were dropped. Mistranslations are purposely created, copied uncritically but changed at will to support the author’s views, and repeated endlessly as revealed truth.

David Hatcher Childress asserts: “The public needs scientists and the scientists need the public. However, many times the lay person is the better source of information” (Atlantis and the Power Systems of the Gods, 2002, p. 36). What exactly are we to think of this? As we have seen, Childress is a terrible source of information. He, those he copied from, and those who copy from him are at best guilty of ignorance and poor scholarship; at worst they intentionally altered texts and misrepresented history to fool their readers—all while claiming “scientists” are the ones hiding the truth.

On the other document:

Many cultures have myths about flying carpets, chariots etc, its a common motif and again there is no archaeological evidence for such a technology. However lets see what those stanzas say.

reply to post by Hanslune


I'm still searching, while at work *naughty me*, and I have found this link:
www.atlantisquest.com...

"Strong and durable must the yantra's body be made, of light material and having wings joined smoothly with invisible seams. It can carry passengers, it can be made small and compact, it can move in silence. If sound is to be used successfully, there must be great flexibility in the driving mechanism, and all must be put together flawlessly. In order for it to accomplish its intended purpose, it must be extremely durable, it must be well covered in . . . it must not become too hot, too stiff, nor too soft, and its sharp-pointed battering ram must also be indestructable. Indeed, the machine's main qualities, which are remembered by one and all, include unending motion—which is to say perpetual motion. Smoothness is one of the machines supreme qualities; thus, the workings of the machine must be versatile, complete, not given to expansion, never complaining, and always applicable to the task."

At this point the text becomes most interesting . . . but also the most difficult. It is evident that essential elements in the propulsion system are deliberately vague—or completely left out. The reason for this is explained later in the text. I can see why the following has never appeared in any of the current English translations.

"At the critical time the beam of fire must be released, which will make the action possible. The time-beam expands, accompanied by the thunder of the expanding medium. This resultant expansion performs work like an elephant in an endless cycle."


Further along in the text is a paragraph which mentions using wood as a potential building material in the construction of one of these amazing machines (a yantra); then it immediately launches into a description of a propulsion system using a combustible fuel similar to gasoline.

"The manufacturing of a conquering yantra is greatly to be desired . . . using light-weight wood to build a great air-going machine of a strong-bodied type. In the central container is the liquid consumed by the engine, which gradually burns away during complete combustion."

Immediately following is a list of the possible motions and maneuvers available to the pilot. Several of these would have been deemed incredible by modern aircraft engineers until the introduction of the "hovercraft" and the more recent British aircraft commonly known as the Harrier (see further below).

"Fully renown are the techniques for mastering the following motions: vertical ascent; vertical descent; forwards; backwards; normal ascent; normal descent; slanting; progressing over long distances through proper adjustment of the working parts . . . its air-rending sound and roaring thunder can easily drown out the trumpeting of an elephant in panic—but it can also be moved by musical tones.

"Shining in every direction, their machine (yantra) could travel wherever the imagination dictated. From their great height they saw stimulating dances, drama plays, and pristine ritualistic ceremonies. Their yantra gained renown among Royal dynasties and various nations. In such a manner the High-Souled ones flew, while the lower classes walked. All those friends succeeded in their much-deserved acquisition of a yantra, by means of which human beings can fly in the air, and non-earthling, Celestial Beings, can come down to mortals when visiting the Earth."

Certain of the aircraft described seem to be winged like a modern aeroplane; but such a craft could not go backwards, nor could it ascend or descend vertically. The term "dual-winged" without doubt appears in the following text in conjunction with some sort of air, or jet, propulsion.

". . . Thus, inside one must place the Mercury-engine; and properly mounted beneath it, the iron heating apparatus. Men thusly set the dual-winged, driving whirlwind in motion; and the concealed pilot, by means of the mercury-power, may travel a great distance in the sky."

Then what follows is the description of a much larger, more complex vimana, which is powered by four mercury-engines. (Note: this is the only place the term "vimana" is used in the Sanskrit passages translated on this page.)

"An extremely swift and nimble vimana can be built, as large as the temple of the God-in-motion. Into the interior structure four strong mercury containers must be installed. When these have been heated by a controlled fire from iron containers, the flying machine develops thunder-power through the mercury, becoming a highly desirable yantra. Moreover, if this iron engine with properly welded joints be filled with fluid [mercury?], when ascending or descending over land it generates power with the roar of a lion.

Now he openly admits his translations aren't perfect but I will develop my opinion off the original texts.

reply to post by LightAssassin


You realise this isn't an ancient text at all... You realise that, don't you? It's from the 1920s. Yes?