Do you think the UN-led forces should have went into Badgdad in 1991 to ouster Saddam instead of 200

I was asking about it since that we should have went into Baghdad in 1991? Any question please thanks! I asked because my friends are debating whether we should went into Baghdad or not so i asked here to to share out your opinions. What do you think about it? Would Iraq in 1991 would result an insurgency just like in 2003 or no? How did an Insurgency get into Iraq in 2003? What build it up in 2003 Iraq insurgency? I heard that we didn't went into Iraq in 1991 due to the fact the UN mandate only allowed the liberation of Kuwait.

Debate this with your friends.

reply to post by choppedbrisket


My question says that should we have went further into Iraq in 1991 instead of 2003? This video only talks about the prelede into Kuwait invasion.

It might have had a little more to do with OPEC and its interests. To add the gulf war never really ended in was more of an ongoing boot on the middle east oil market in my opinion. Hell we celebrated the 10th anniversary of the start and still not discontinued gulf operation (ie not war). But I digress Saddam wanting to move to a euro based trade seems to be the reason the US went in 2003, so it seems that in my mind its moot question unless a reason other than ie "if i had invaded a sovereign foreign nation over a decade sooner, would its people not be as pissed at me?" well yea they were then, and they still are.

What are you guys debating exactly?

In the build up to Desert Storm, the coalition forces were supported by most of the governments in the Middle East. Going to Baghdad was considered at that time not to be a good idea, as the coalition forces would likely have lost support of those governments, because the mission was declared to rid Kuwait of Iraqi occupation forces, not destroy the government of Iraq, who had been holding Iran at bay.

See what's happened now? I think this is what many were worried about back in the early 1990's. It's evident now, though, that the West just doesn't give a crap.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


it was a police action , as soon as they crossed back over the iraq boarder , the mission was accomplished and no further action was needed .or legal .

they had to invent a reason before they invaded iraq and thats why the w.m.d excuse was invented .

The point of the video is that we told Hussein to go ahead and handle his own affairs.
In effect, we manufactured for ourselves a way to get a stronger foothold in the region.
No doubt that Hussein and the Ba'athists were not nice people, but Kuwait was stealing Iraq's oil.
And we told him to handle it himself.
So why debate the merits of invading Iraq in 1991?
Aren't your energy and time better spent discussing why we allow our government to purposely cause the death and misery of millions of people for the profit of a few?

The UN resolution explicitly stated that force could be used to remove Saddam from Kuwait not remove him from power. Doing so would be in violation of the UN resolution thus it would be illegal.

reply to post by choppedbrisket


Agreed on the oil part, Saddam was our boy to quite a revolution and keep oil in the hands of the cartel interests. He then however did the INSANE thing of building medical facilities along with schools and other public works to bring Iraq's standard of living way up. To pop the cork as to speak he again tried to get a better rate with the oil cartels and they essentially dealt with it.

I really think the talk by "Michael Parenti's" (the war on yugoslavia) is the very thing that will clarify this subject for anyone. If you find it he speaks specifically about this at 9:30 in (its and hour and twenty total)

Dick Cheney accurately described exactly what is happening right now 20 years ago. We would end up bogged down in the quagmire which is Baghdad and we would be stuck ruling them. Martial law really doesn't need to be as superliminal as the Iron Curtain or cold war Soviet Union. Military presence is rule enough, that and western media's influence. Americans believe we did the right thing.

Short, victorious war is a sales pitch. Politics are a diabolically clever business plan. Tricky Dick's a genius, except that it took 10+ years to kickstart his architecture of aggression. Amazing how those guys did it so easily though. So easy in fact, people are arguing why we didn't do it sooner.

Makes me wonder where the heck MY movie check's at. Too bad the con men don't like to share. War mongering used to make countries and empires rich. Now look at US. Wondering how we're going to legislate going even deeper in debt to Lord knows who. The poorest country in the world, albeit with flatscreens and internet on our cell phones. Forget the future until the slavery becomes absolute with none the wiser until way past too late.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
The UN resolution explicitly stated that force could be used to remove Saddam from Kuwait not remove him from power. Doing so would be in violation of the UN resolution thus it would be illegal.

I remember that George H. W. Bush had requested to the UN Security Council that we be allowed to push further into Iraq and deal with Saddam then and there. Only two countries agreed (Britain and Australia), the rest of the UN stated that the mission they set out to complete had been successful and that sanctions would be imposed. At the time we had the support of the Iraqi people to go on and oust Saddam, but didn't because we lacked the backing of the UN. There would not have been a very likely chance for an insurgency, but one will never know. In addition, Saddam sued for peace. At one point President Bush had told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam and they had hoped that the US would back a revolution, after the UN shut down any hope of our push north to liberate Iraq Saddam began a slaughter and imprisonment of his people who rose up against him. Should we have just gone in anyway in 1991? IMO, i say yes.

Originally posted by choppedbrisket
The point of the video is that we told Hussein to go ahead and handle his own affairs.
In effect, we manufactured for ourselves a way to get a stronger foothold in the region.
No doubt that Hussein and the Ba'athists were not nice people, but Kuwait was stealing Iraq's oil.
And we told him to handle it himself.
So why debate the merits of invading Iraq in 1991?
Aren't your energy and time better spent discussing why we allow our government to purposely cause the death and misery of millions of people for the profit of a few?

Even though we did we never told him to invade Kuwait. George H.W. Bush was told by Saddam that he would invade Kuwait but Bush thought no but shocked as Saddam did invaded Kuwait as he would promise.

They had no reason to take Saddam out anyway because : the US should have MINDED THEIR OWN F-ING BUSINESS and STOP STICKING THEIR NOSES IN OTHER COUNTRIES' BUSINESS...

If they would have done this, there would be no "war of terror", there would be no astronomical debt, there would be less hatred between east and west, and the world would be a better place...

Magnum

Originally posted by Magnum007
They had no reason to take Saddam out anyway because : the US should have MINDED THEIR OWN F-ING BUSINESS and STOP STICKING THEIR NOSES IN OTHER COUNTRIES' BUSINESS...

If they would have done this, there would be no "war of terror", there would be no astronomical debt, there would be less hatred between east and west, and the world would be a better place...

Magnum

edit on 11/7/21 by Magnum007 because: (no reason given)

If Iraq had not invaded Kuwait, we would have not help Kuwait. And Kuwait would suffer under Saddam Hussein had we not intervened to help them.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


It's their business... not the US'...

The only reason they went there was for the $$$ and the interest in the oil wells...

The US should have minded their own business and let the people take care of themselves...

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Paulioetc15

 

It's their business... not the US'...

The only reason they went there was for the $$$ and the interest in the oil wells...

The US should have minded their own business and let the people take care of themselves...

LOL why don't you ask the people of Kuwait if you think the US is so bad for helping them out. Kuwait's Army was overrun by Iraq within two days and Iraq may even possible to invade Saudi Arabia and rest of the Arab
world( They have one of the largest oil reserves) and that's why SA invited the UN in. How do you respond to that threat? I don't think the people of Kuwait cared what the US motives are, they only cared to be saved and it did.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


Here's a clearer example I should have used before...

Let's let Europe come and save the US from the "Tyrants" in government... Bomb the # out of the country, kill hundreds of thousands of US citizens, create check points where more people get shot, imprison people indefinitely and without charge for years...

Then.

Let them put a constitution in place with an envoy who has dual US and some EU country citizenship as the leader... Then lets let European troops stay in the country for oh... 10 years or so and then leave the US soil back to their people who will be more divided and where different states and people will continue fighting a civil war that will be super bloody...

How does that sound? Not much better than the US regime that's in power right now right? So look at what happened to Iraq and what's going to happen in Afghanistan... The US MESSED THOSE PLACES UP FAR BEYOND HOW THEY WERE BEFORE...

Fighting for freedom & warring for democracy is like f-ing for virginity... IT DOESN'T WORK! Imposing democracy is actually counter productive... Imposing the will of some onto the rest of the people without knowing if the majority want the change is exactly what people who want democracy scream and complain is wrong...

Let the people of the place decide their own fate as the first americans did when they fought the english, without help... Democracy must come from within...

When the US will mind their own business, the world will be a much safer, and peaceful place...

Magnum

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Paulioetc15

 

Here's a clearer example I should have used before...

Let's let Europe come and save the US from the "Tyrants" in government... Bomb the # out of the country, kill hundreds of thousands of US citizens, create check points where more people get shot, imprison people indefinitely and without charge for years...

Then.

Let them put a constitution in place with an envoy who has dual US and some EU country citizenship as the leader... Then lets let European troops stay in the country for oh... 10 years or so and then leave the US soil back to their people who will be more divided and where different states and people will continue fighting a civil war that will be super bloody...

How does that sound? Not much better than the US regime that's in power right now right? So look at what happened to Iraq and what's going to happen in Afghanistan... The US MESSED THOSE PLACES UP FAR BEYOND HOW THEY WERE BEFORE...

Fighting for freedom & warring for democracy is like f-ing for virginity... IT DOESN'T WORK! Imposing democracy is actually counter productive... Imposing the will of some onto the rest of the people without knowing if the majority want the change is exactly what people who want democracy scream and complain is wrong...

Let the people of the place decide their own fate as the first americans did when they fought the english, without help... Democracy must come from within...

When the US will mind their own business, the world will be a much safer, and peaceful place...

Magnum

Are you saying that Iraq should conquer Kuwait and torture their own people in the 1st place? Either you;re a mentally troll or just plain stupid. Iraq invaded Kuwait without provocation. And no why would Europe invade us? They are our allies and they were with us during Operation Desert Storm.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


Every invasion and occupation inevitably ends up with an insurgency. This is true for every theatre of conflict in the world. Once the regular forces are defeated then civilians tend to take up arms against the military.

Let the people of Kuwait deal with the problems of Kuwait. Let the people of the US deal with the problems of the US. Look at the US and how they are struggling to remain a superpower because of what? Because of debt... Where was the debt money wasted? Hmmm Minding their own business? Nope! Waging war that they shouldn't have...

As far as the invasion that I used as an EXAMPLE ... This is an almost exact carbon copy of what happened in Iraq...

Fighting for freedom should come from within the country... Let the others fight their own battles...

Magnum