History’s lost lesson: Ancient nuclear war among Indus Valley civilizations reexamined

reply to post by kdog1982


thanks for sharing that; that map is an embarassment looks like a cancer i would like to see a graphic representing all the accumulated damage at once --- we are essentially murdering our mother

Originally posted by Signals
Hmmmm.

What was our atmosphere like 2 billion years ago?

Our planet was cleaner, less polluted, and less damaged by the toxic wastes we as a species dump. Although, we're causing an unnatural evolutionary process for Earth, it will adapt and eventually just kick us off like a couple of "bad fleas." (Thanks to Carlin for that proper description of ourselves)

We're responsible for so much harm and destruction of various species and large parts of our planet, but like I said, it'll adapt and evolve. It'll be here for a very long time...unlike us.

Oh man, talk about going off topic

reply to post by BadBoYeed


Wow, i was always meaning to research this topic more in depth. Maybe this time we break that cycle. Could be that the aliens we call the greys are really the ancient inhabitants of this planet and they`re checking us out, seeing how much DNA we might have in common or uncommon.

Libyan desert glass; possibly the only physical proof we may have of this matter.

As slayer said, this ancient nuclear topic has been bought up many a time with little to no proof. Only possible proof I know of as a rockhound, is Libyan desert glass. 26-28 million years old. Not noticeably radioactive but radioactivity even including heavier isotopes of plutonium would have largely dissipated by then. It has a very similar structure and look to tritinite, which is often white to light green radioactive glass, from the trinity nuclear test. Sometimes orangy red from copper cables being vapourised and black from the shot tower. Shows that nuclear explosion (or similar) glass will take interesting compositions according to their surroundings. I wonder what tests could be performed on Libyan desert glass, what types can be found that are not yellow or clear and what materials can be found in them.

So Libyan desert glass is either a product of a meteor, a massive electrical charge, localised heating of sorts or a nuke or similar highly thermal weapon.

The enigma of this glass is:
1. The amount. It is the largest known deposit of a natural silica glass, ~98% SiO2 , on Earth.
2. It's distribution. The distribution is approximately elliptical, ~130 km by ~50 km with the major axis ~NNW by SSE.
3. Physical properties. The composition and structure of the glass are consistent with a hypothesis that the glass was formed from melted desert dune sand and subsequently cooled over a period greater than 24 hours in an Earth atmosphere.
4. Fusion energy. Possibly a meteorite or comet impact, but there are no meteor craters detectable from satellite photos with a resolution of ~5m within 150 km. No Libyan Desert Glass has been found at the nearest meteorite crater, located in Libya, ~150km to the west.
5. Chemistry. The glass cannot have been fused from the local exposed sandstone.
6. Age of glass and dunes. The dune sand and dunes have been formed in a time estimated to be less than 1,000,000 years, yet the fission track dates of the glass have a mean of ~28,000,000 years.
7. Surface geology. 28,000,000 years ago some geologists estimate that the sandstone was beneath ~300m of limestone and covered with vegetation. [From: www.physics.wustl.edu...]

glenavalon.com...

By fusion energy I think they mean the fusing of the sand? Thermonuclear weapon would be fusion, meteor not.

Hope this helps you all in your search for information.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


Indeed. The history of the East Mediterranean is one of extreme strange coincidences. A perfect example of ripple effect.

I'll tell you what I was told in college in a history class. I don't believe in 100%, but if true, than hot dayum is it amazing series of unfortunate events:

As the environment after the ice age changed and the great meltdown occurred, places that were once deserts became jungles, while jungles became deserts In Northern Africa, for example, the region used to be very similar to the Mississippi Valley. Grasslands, hunter gatherer natives, etc etc. Most of these cultures were either spirit worshipers or monotheistic cults. The desertification of this region caused people to flood into the only major source of water for the region: the Nile. This was also when the Black sea may have flooded, as well as Mt Etna erupted. We're not talking about some little event here. We're talking about a thousand years of ash and fire falling from the sky. Literally what they would describe as a battle in heaven, or a war of the gods. While there, they bickered over their beliefs. Thus like in India, they pasted together all their beliefs into several cults and proto-faiths. By this time the Indo-European Pantheon was passing by, and this more or less is what establish Egyptian religion and culture. This evolved into the civilization that built the pyramids. Pyramid construction lasted around 200 years in total, and this was Egypt's height, and within a hundred years after they collapsed. This date also marks the historic date of the Great flood of Noah. The events of this time are blurred, but a lot of stuff happened. 600 years later, The great destruction of the Minoans happened. This is where it gets very blurry. However advanced you think Egypt was when it built the pyramids, Minoa was more so. They were only some 300-500 years behind ourselves in the modern era. Some examples of Minoan architecture. See something familiar?

www.grammar-quizzes.com...

lib.haifa.ac.il...

Their destruction came at the hands of Mt Thera. This unleashed hell that is supposedly the source of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. This also rained down hell across Greece and Egypt. In Greece, much destruction occurred, and supposedly the invasion of Troy began and the Dacians took over. Supposedly one warrior found his way into the hands of mercenary work, becoming Goliath, who David Fought. At the same time, fire falling over Egypt supposedly happened along the lines of when Moses was cursing down the Egyptians, also possibly correlating to the second collapse of Egyptian society. These events however are separated by centuries, thus suggesting a lot of interrelated events all happening over the course of waves of destruction and reconstruction.


If true, it suggests that a large amount of events of flooding, fir, and destruction were all "butterfly affects" over the course of centuries fro a very small number of events.
Straaange

I find this interesting:

Oppenheimer
The architect of modern atomic bomb who was in charge of the manhattan project was asked by a student after the manhattan explosion, “How do you feel after having exploded the first atomic bomb on earth”. Oppenheimer’s reply for the question was , “not first atomic bomb, but first atomic bomb in modern times”. He strongly believed that nukes were used in ancient india. what made oppenheimer believe that it was a nuclear war was the accurate descriptions of the weapons used in the mahabharatha war in the epic which match with that of modern nuclear weapons.

Controversies in History

I'm not sure how credible this site is, but I've read from several other sources in the past about Oppenheimer alluding to the atomic bomb being used in ancient times.

to me, this backs up the claims of Zechariah Sitchin. Love this information and backs up my own beliefs which is that establishment science and historians are b*ll#*ers and liars. Fascinating in every way. I do believe that ETs are the gods of old and new, jesus, mohammad, etc etc. Ra, Zues, etc etc, i think they were all alien lifeforms but i also distinguish that from their creator and hence ours and an afterlife. i dont believe they have anything to do with the "great creator" we'll call it and the afterlife. great OP

reply to post by GhostR1der


Speaking of Ancient mysterious glass and a possible massive nuclear type explosion...


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f172317b3f54.jpg[/atsimg]
Libyan Desert Glass (sometimes referred to as Egypt or Egyptian Desert Glass)

Libyan Desert Glass (sometimes referred to as Egypt or Egyptian Desert Glass) is a rare and beautiful impact glass, found in only one remote location on Earth, near the Libyan/Egyptian border. It is associated with an ancient meteorite impact, which occurred somewhere in the North African deserts. Quality specimens are translucent, and also display pseudo regmaglypts, possibly caused by wind erosion, or by ablation when molten fragments were thrown into the air following impact. Perhaps the most enchanting of all meteorite-related collectibles, Libyan Desert Glass is now extremely difficult to obtain, as removing material from the site is prohibited by the Egyptian government.

The ancient pectoral pictured at left belonged to Tutankhamun, and the yellow scarab is carved from Libyan Desert Glass, giving this striking meteoritic material a unique link to Egypt and to humanity's distant past.

Mysterious Egyptian Glass Formed by Meteorite Strike, Study Says

Strange specimens of natural glass found in the Egyptian desert are products of a meteorite slamming into Earth between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago, scientists have concluded. The glass—known locally as Dakhla glass—represents the first clear evidence of a meteorite striking an area populated by humans. At the time of the impact, the Dakhla Oasis, located in the western part of modern-day Egypt, resembled the African savanna and was inhabited by early humans, according to archaeological evidence.

"This meteorite event would have been catastrophic for all living things," said Maxine Kleindienst, an anthropologist at the University of Toronto in Canada. "Even a relatively small impact would have exterminated all life for [several] miles."

Crater Mystery
The origin of the glass had puzzled scientists since Kleindienst discovered it in 1987. Some researchers had suggested the Stone Age glass may have been produced by burning vegetation or lightning strikes. But a chemical analysis showed that the glass was created in temperatures so high that they could only have been the result of a meteorite impact. Gordon Osinski, a geologist at the Canadian Space Agency in Saint-Hubert who conducted the analysis, found that the glass samples contain strands of molten quartz, a signature of meteorite impacts.

reply to post by BadBoYeed


sigh , you are just parroting more claims - its a simple challenge - find your " quotes " in primary sources such as the Mahabharata and other texts , and post a DIRECT link to a reputable online translation

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Someone just did a far more detailed thread on this topic

reply to post by LightAssassin


i will ask again - can someone please provide a primary source citeation for such quotes as :

Hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
and the birds turned white

online Mahabharata is an acceptable source

if the quote is genuine how hard can it be ?

i dont want more forums , blogs etc etc

which part of " primary source " dont people understand ????

There is a post linked to on one of the pages carrying this story. It contends that:

The total number of skeletons found at the main site of Mohenjo-Daro, during the initial archeological digging during 1922-1931, was, just 37. 14 of those, including a minor, were found inside a small room, 1 was found in a blocked lane. Let me quote Prof. G.F.Dales from his “The Mythical Massacre at Mohenjo-daro”

Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) - a city of three miles in circuit – yielded the total of some 37 skeletons, or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions and that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either disarticulated or incomplete….Where are the burned fortresses, the arrow heads, weapons, pieces of armor, the smashed chariots and bodies of the invaders and defenders? Despite the extensive excavations at the largest Harappan sites, there is not a single bit of evidence that can be brought forth as unconditional proof of an armed conquest and the destruction on the supposed scale of the Aryan Invasion.

Later excavation unearthed more Skeletal remains in other Indus valley ruins like Harappa, Dholavira, Lothal etc., which numbered a little more than 300. [I am not sure of the exact number.]

...

It is an absolute lie that bodies littered the streets of these ruins. There isn’t a shred of evidence of an instantaneous mass death, as evidenced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Some of these skeletons were actually buried at different ground level, pointing to different periods of time. There isn’t any evidence of any major war or invasion itself.

www.thinkdigit.com...

It also goes into how there doesn't apear to be an original, credible source for this story. Only a website which no longer appears to exist. This is a huge deal, and there should be some credible links to archaeological or geological data showing the alleged radioactivity. That there is not renders this story highly dubious in my opinion.

I am a skeptic, but an open-minded one. I have long wondered whether the stories in the Vedic scriptures, as well as Sumerian and other myths, might be watered down "echos" of some event witnessed long before they were recorded in history. I still believe that to at least be a possibility. They are among our oldest recorded myths as a species. Unfortunately, the specific claims of radioactivity, etc. don't seem to have sufficient evidence to convince me that they’re credible.

Bodies? Yes, Mythic tales that may be indicative of something actually witnessed at some point in history? Yes (and I still find them incredibly fascinating regardless.) Radioactivity? There's no evidence that I can see of that. Proof of a nuclear conflict? There’s no proof of that that I can see.

There's a lot we don't know, though. Please don't interpret this post as me simply trying to debunk something. I'm not. I just don't see the direct evidence (or even the original source of the story) they claim exists.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Speaking of which, here's another possible log for the fire

Vitrified (glass) forts

One of the great mysteries of classical archaeology is the existence of many vitrified forts in Scotland. Are they also evidence of some ancient atomic war? Maybe, but maybe not. There are said to be at least 60 such forts throughout Scotland.

underscores seem to kill ats link handling so here it is plain text
http:// logos_endless_summer.tripod.com/id139.html

Very interesting read. Some of the forts they built needed roughly 250,000 men to defend. Vitrified rock walls may be possible using very specific heating conditions, practically you need a large scale, outdoor kiln to attach to the wall. Evidence of such kilns has not been found. Some places are only half or partially vitrified. There is practically no record of this process occuring other than that we can see it and it doesn't seem to make walls stronger - I find this very unusual. Many weaponry/building techniques are carried through but this one forgotten entirely.

www.robertschoch.com...

This is an excellent read by Dr Robert Schoch, a more complete and scientific source than the above link on vitrified forts. States they are found throughout the world and usually top and upper sides of walls are the only vitrified parts, suggesting a heat source from above. Could it be ancient nukes? Scalar weaponry? Plasma? Electrical? Massive meteor storm? Perhaps there was another reason such stone buildings were constructed than purely warfare. If so, those without a deep underground base will find out the hard way.

reply to post by Gorman91


Yeah i've read similar - suface deposits of stone age tools are fairly common in the sahara and it did freak me out when i found out large parts of the sahara were grasslands up to 8000 years ago or even more recently. Does show that a lot of crazy enviromental change can happen in relativlely short amounts of time.

Makes one wonder the main reason we haven't advanced more as a species is we keep getting whacked by big exploding things

reply to post by GhostR1der


touche


Those Vitrified (glass) forts are a mystery.
I've read there are a few other locations which show some form of vitrification but what makes the ones you've specified as being some of the coolest is that they appear to be forts...


Stone age bunkers that were blasted with high heat????

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone


The human species is just 50,000-20,000 years old. We've only been advancing beyond what we knew we had been before since the 1700-present day.

In other words, out of some 30,000 years or so of being a species, we've only been able to tap the full potential of the species for 300 years. That's 3% of our time spent using our abilities, and 97% of our existence spent being destroyed.

dayum

www.rense.com...

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous

A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators' gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.

"The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.

"After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."

Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare."

Construction has halted while the five member team conducts the investigation. The foreman of the project is Lee Hundley, who pioneered the investigation after the high level of radiation was discovered.

2

reply to post by BadBoYeed


One would have to wonder, if we had a nuclear war tomorrow, and a small group survived, what would their descendants remember of us in 10,000 years? Anyone who has ever seen the series "life after people" knows how quickly nearly every trace of our civilization would disappear in a couple thousand years. This idea is not as far fetched as it seems. When you realize that our present civilization arose from the first farmers maybe 8 or 9 thousand years ago, its not hard to imagine that it could have happened before if "modern" humans have been around for maybe 150,000 years.

Yep, goes to show that Humans are a lot older than people think they are. A nuclear war before Christ? Radioactive bones are proof that this really happened so, it's nothing new to me.

And it seems like when that event happened, we were sent back into the stone age. Which leads us to everything up to today.