French Armour, English Longbowmen, Agincourt.. EU Rewriting History!

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Completly agree.. kids should not just be taught history but experience it.. I did have a nutty history teacher who took us out.. making us learn how to make houses out of mud and what not.. real eye opener and to be honest what I thought was the way all children where taught.. but no.. I was utterly lucky in that regard.

I got my first bow (5ft) when I was 8***.. it was bigger than I was so had to stand on it to keep it still.. loved it and the others ones I had.. but not fired an arrow in about 15 years.. this thread certainly makes me want to go out and get another..

(***my parents lacked real sense e.g Getting me a Mens 27inch racing bike to learn to ride when I was 10)

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse

Originally posted by CrankyPantsUK


As a 40 year old man, I would soo like to play that game!


I would love to have a crack with a longbow, I think I will look for some archery clubs myself, although i wouldnt hang around if i forget my glasses!

Go for it-never to late to try,and you will pick it up in no time at all-as archery is literally written in our genes.
I've been interested in archery sine my mid 20's,I am 36 now and enjoying it more than ever,possibly because I have started trying to make my own Longbows(and some shorter ones too).

So far I have made 3 longbows,and 4 shorter bows.
I am currently working on a piece of Yew,6'2"in length,with a natural recurve shape to it.
Its the most challenging I have made so far,but if I get it right,I think its going to be a special one.
I only use hand tools-axe/billhook,drawknife,rasp and sandpaper.
So far none of my homemade bows have broken,and they all shoot straight,even the short 4.5ft one is happy at 28" draw,at 45lb.
I am told that is either very lucky or I have a gift...hehe,well I think I must be very lucky to have a source of good wood.
My only remaining bought Bow is a kassai "bear" Hungarian recurve-that is a fast powerful beast,to be treated with respect.

Find a local class if you can to get the basics sussed-its a great way to pass the time,and reconnect with our past at the same time IMO.

I definetly will!

I have been meaning too for a while now especially after reading every Bernard Cornwall novel there is!

It does my heart good too to hear that ancient skills are being kept alive by people like yourself.

I will deffo have a crack at it, I havent fired a shot off in years now (army) and it will be good to get back to my roots as it were.

Thanks for the further inspiration

Is there any truth in those tales of how the yew trees used to make the longbow grew in cemeteries where animals couldn't harm them!? Even today there are an awful lot of yew trees in the older ancient cemeteries of Englands green and pleasant land.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


the group i belong to the SCA (society for creative anachronism), does school demos for kids, in my area medieval history is taught in grade 4. if possible we do a fighting demo at the end, (to do before would completely loose the attention of the kids), we often try night demos for that reason. it's fun to do, we try to cover as many aspects of medieval life as we have the people and knowledge for. the kids always love it. at the same time we end up correcting teacher's misconceptions, like the miss-fact that if you fall down in armor you can't get back up, and can't move well. all sorts of fun ways to deal with that one like charging in from 30 feet, and wrestling.

there are active groups in Europe, the kingdom of Drachenwald. even in Australia, the kingdom of Lochac. i don't know if they do school demos or not, but it would surprise me if they didn't. living in Europe must be cool with all the medieval castles, building and artifacts everywhere. if you want more info can go to www.sca.org...

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


'Pluck Yew' - GENIUS!

reply to post by CrankyPantsUK


It's not rewriting history. The events you described still are true. But the researchers are trying to figure out why the lost.

They claim the armor did it in for them.

Makes sense to me. It doesn't take away from, skilled English farmers killing them. It makes the French look prideful for their armor, when in fact mobility and skill won against them. This si a true military historic fact.

Originally posted by LemmyKautionu
Is there any truth in those tales of how the yew trees used to make the longbow grew in cemeteries where animals couldn't harm them!? Even today there are an awful lot of yew trees in the older ancient cemeteries of Englands green and pleasant land.

Yew trees are present in many churchyards in the UK because the new god pinched the sites off the old gods-many churches and cemeteries are built upon sites sacred to the old gods.
This is as it has always been,and continues to be.
For in days of old:

The Yew tree IS the tree of life.
Our pagan ancestors worshipped these trees.
Recently, botanists have come to realise that Yew trees can live an extaordinarily long time. Most of the ancient Yew trees you will find in Churchyards will be at least 1000 years old and some of them may be 3 or 4000 years old ! There have always been problems dating the age of yew trees.
They grow incredibly slowly. Church records show that on average the girth of these trees increases only by about 0.2 inches every year.
This is on a tree that can often have a girth of over 20 feet. They also become hollow fairly early in their life, making ring counting an impossibility.
It has been noticed that at a date maybe hundreds of years after the tree becomes hollow, it has the ability to send an internal shoot down into the hollow cavity which re-roots. This shoot becomes another trunk within the hollow. In effect, starting again.
This brings the prospect of an eternal tree, a tree that could just keep living, perpetually regenerating. This is not fantasy, but well documented botany.

Now that is awesome enough,but there is more:

The trees were planted by our ancient pagan ancestors, to mark their sacred spots and burial grounds.
When the christians arrived and began to convert us, they built their churches on our sacred sites.
God was taken 'indoors'.The trees were left standing, as to chop them would have been much too controversial.
The Yew trees were believed to literally contain the spirits of our ancestors. The christians in turn, carried on the tradition of burying their dead on these sacred sites.

www.mokshaproductions.com...

So this magical spiritual would has survived the ages and changes of religions,to continue to grow at today's places of worship.
The best bow wood just happens to be the same wood,that the spirits of our ancestors exist in according to the ancient gods...
How awesome is that?

-----------------------------------------
Glad to see other bowmen/women are coming out of the shadows to join this thread!
We still have that connection to the past,once we tap into stuff like that and learn about it I think it enriches us even in today's world of the silicone chip and split atom.





By the way,no one go trying to pinch yew tree bits from churches-apart from getting arrest for a bad karma event,you may harm the tree and get a rubbish bit of wood if you don't know what you are doing.

Maybe the best way if you want some magic wood is to ask a church person if you could take 1 branch,or collect windfall branches.
Sorry,disclaimer over.

reply to post by CrankyPantsUK


I would like to add that the Hoover Inst researcher Antony Sutton has written about how history is re-written for a purpose and an agenda. You can read about it in his book, "America's Secret Establishment-The Order of Skull and Bones"

dont forget the english bowmen walk 120miles by rain and have "montezumas revenge" and the french was drunken because they think they win and start drinking before the battle began.however.

but u english have no longer history then we german have and that is 2 thousand years and not 3 thousand.but hey-thats much more then the american have with that 221 years or whatever

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Yes

There is something very elemental and primal about archery.

And the way the economy is at the moment maybe the most useful skill to have to put food on the table!


Have you ever hunted with a bow?

I have with a rifle in the past but im sure with a bow it would be even more primal, conected to suroundings and the hunt, and our past.

It seems the French officers were simply outmatched by the English officers who made good use of every tactical advantage they had and could make, including weapons, terrain and weather.
The French on the other hand had over confidence in their numbers, using them as canon fodder because they had so many more. They figured easy victory, what they thought the English would run out of arrows ?

reply to post by CrankyPantsUK


I have never hunted with my bow-I'm pretty sure its illegal in the whole UK to bow hunt live crittters.
However,in a breakdown of civilisation scenario,a bow and a few weeks training,and practice would be a very good way to supplement your food.
Rabbits,squirrels,certain birds could easily be taken home to the table with even a 35lb good bow and practice.

Just not allowed until after the apocalypse.

And then they may not taste so good.

Originally posted by CrankyPantsUK
I personally think that this is an attempt to rehabilitate this utterlly defeated French army and lessen the feats of ordinary Englishmen (and Welsh and Irish contingent).

That's possible, but I don't see how that can be seen as EU rewriting history, as far as I know the EU was not involved in the study (and one of the author is from New Zealand).

Also, from what I saw in French sites, the French point bad strategy and disorganisation as the main reasons for the defeat, not the weight of the armours. After all, in a well organized battle, a change in strategy could compensate for the first losses, but that didn't happened.

Kicking up a fuss about it may seem petty to some, but as you know, give the EU an inch and befpre you know it soveriegnty is gone and history for future generations gets sanitized and changed to suit their aims.

Could you give one example of that sanitizing done by the EU?

Armap


Here is one example

And another

reply to post by CrankyPantsUK


I didn't saw any evidence of sanitizing in those articles, only people saying that they will going to do it. Unless I missed something.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

Is'nt it a big shame this is all no longer taught in our schools? Our kids need to know where they come from but I guess nowadays it's not "politically correct" , pretty sad state of affairs really.

I totally agree, I'm proud of our Heritage and feel that the English are losing in out in our Goverment's drive to Multi-culturlism. sometimes it feels like I need to be embarresed about my English roots. I will definatly be educating my daughter in the stories of our past

reply to post by k1ngarthur


When my daughter was still at school, she was taught who the Romans were, but had never heard of Churchill was. How bad is that?

Le Frogs could never swallow that defeat so easy, so, sod em!

This makes one proud to be English!

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

Get England out of the EU, NOW!

reply to post by CrankyPantsUK




As is usually the case there is more to this story than what is told here. At the time of this battle custom required knights to meet, one on one after which the victor usually gave aid to he who was defeated. In this case what happened was that the English saw the odds and decided to toss chivalry out the window because they didn't have a chance otherwise. So they stood off and their archers decimated the Frenchies as they waited on their mounts for what they thought was going to be just another disciplined contest. So no one from the English side came onto the field to meet, one on one. Well this surprised and pissed off the French. It also caused great disarray in their ranks. Before the bowmen ceased their action English mounted pikes charged the French en masse. This also surprised them greatly. OK to make a long story short the English won the day but it was not because of any deficiency in French armor. It was more a case of their armor being rendered useless. It was also true that only the knights wore any too so their support people were open to injury. As a result of this loss there was no re-match which normally would have been. This was because the French lost so many knights that they had nothing to field. Knights were the crucial element in those days. Without them their tacticians were at a loss.

The phrase "to hell in a handbasket" was coined the next day when things got sorted out.

True story. I know. I was there.

reply to post by Lyrian


Amen.

And to add:

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.

And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.