Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

We really evaluated having an au-pair, then we considered the renting price of three-bedroom house including the local tax on such bringing the rent from 850+100 to 1100+100, so it was not much of a gain there

We have a pretty big house, and we used to rent the upstairs to a grad student, and we had another couple living downstairs and sharing expenses. The other couple moved away and we didn't replace them. Then the grad student moved away, but we re-rented it a few times, and we kept getting some flaky girls up there. Eventually we didn't re-rent the upstairs, but it put us in a little bit of a bind. Then, we realized we just couldn't afford summer daycare, so we were forced to get creative. First we thought of renting the upstairs to pay for the daycare, but that came with the normal headaches, and then we realized we could combine it into one nanny. We called a couple of nanny services, and they were far too expensive, so I did a google search, found sittercity.com, posted an ad, got about 30 applications, interviewed 4, and hired a great girl!!

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

I hate to say it, but sometimes you have little choice but to continue to feed the monsters that have caused these problems in the first place.

I know. But that $2 screwdriver will break shortly, whereas the $4 American one will still be in your toolbox when your son needs it years from now. That $40 savings in food is great, but when one of your neighbors can't find a job, because all the stuff is coming from outside your area, what will you say? It is great to save $40 today, but it isn't so great when you can't find a job tomorrow.

I do it too. We all do it. It is almost irresistible! We are all living and working for the company store! We are enslaved by our debts, we only make enough to buy the wares that they provide for us, and they know full well those wares will break and we'll be forced to buy them over and over. I'm guilty sometimes too! The secret is knowing we are guilty, and knowing we have a choice, and blaming ourselves for our own situation.

It is a trap. It is a very, very sophisticated trap.

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE


I hate to say it, but sometimes you have little choice but to continue to feed the monsters that have caused these problems in the first place.

That's a fact. I would love to buy American products! If I could afford it I would,but the reality is that I cannot afford it. I remember once long ago when I had money, I wanted to boycott walmart, I tried as hard as I could to stick with local stores, then the stores all closed, leaving walmart about the only store in town.

We are all killing our economy, and being forced into doing it with threat of starvation and no cloths on our kids backs unless we buy Chinese products because everything else is almost double the price.

Take a walk through a regular grocery store, go into the canned veggie section and start reading the labels on where it comes from.....even the crap on the local shelves mostly comes from China now.

We are caught in a very bad cycle in what has turned into a disposable society. There is no choice anymore if you are poor and want to survive.

reply to post by Darkblade71

Take a walk through a regular grocery store, go into the canned veggie section and start reading the labels on where it comes from.....even the crap on the local shelves mostly comes from China now.

I was shopping at a little farmer's market that sets up at our work on Mondays. I thought I was doing great in buying some produce from them, and then I got back to my desk and found the little Walmart sticker on one of my apples! I marched back outside and asked the guy if he got the apples at Walmart, and he said, YES! He showed me the one or two things that he got from a local farmer, but 80% of his stuff came straight out of Walmart!

He just goes and buys cheap stuff at Walmart, and then sells it at higher prices to people like me. If he hadn't missed a sticker, I would have never known.

A very sophisticated trap!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Is your participation in this thread really about patting yourself on the back?
It certainly seems so.

I hate these stories. My family of three lives in a one bedroom house that is 650 sq. feet. I have one TV bought at a yard sale. I have no bank account and no credit cards. Because we are married with one child we get $200 in foods stamps a month. We have no health insurance and do not qualify for Medicade. I own one car that is 22 years old. We do have AC but can't afford to run it. Somehow we managed on $14,000 last year. We are one disaster away from being homeless. We are by no means living the good life. Don't blame me for the trillions of dollars of debt

Thank god someone near by pays for wireless so I can get on the internet. Now I can access google maps and find out where the rich folks are living. It will come in handy when the rioting and looting start.

reply to post by angeldoll


No, and I'm sorry it seems that way.

Ideally, I would have been out of this thread about 3 o'clock this afternoon. I have a lot of work to do. I get plenty of pats on the back in real life, the internet ones aren't all that rewarding.

I am only still here, because I can't believe how many people just don't get it? I only use my personal examples, because they are near and dear to me, and they are irrefutable. I know them to be 100% true.

I'm genuinely sorry if I have hurt my arguments by making them seem self-aggrandizing. That wasn't my intention. My intention was to get the point across to at least a couple of people and open some eyes.

Originally posted by dolphinfan

Its about time we had an honest discussion about what the objectives of our social policy are really all about because the current one, the one we have employeed since the Great Society in the 60s has been plain old socialism. The debate today is all about how far we want to extend it.

.

Im not quite sure what you are saying with this post. Are you suggesting that these people shouldnt have these items if they are considered poor? Should they be on the street begging for food, cutting off their limbs for more sympathy?

When you have a nation with a high standard of living, its poor (relative its middle-class), live better than a nation with a lower standard of living.

Secondly, how do we know if these people didnt buy these items when they were more wealthy? Or that they were the only xmas gifts they could find and give? At least they are actively cycling money back into the economy.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Frira

 

But those of us work with, and not AT, the homeless know much more about what is going on which is not easily seen-- and not ours to tell. I don't even bother to suggest that there is more to the story to such volunteers. I don't want them around-- they would be better off clearing their consciences by writing a check.

No, I am not one of your people doing community service hours by volunteering, nor one of the bored housewives trying to tell a story to their friends. I've already told my involvement several times, but I will say it again. My experience is in "attempting" to employ and house the healthy homeless people that really are looking for a break. Amazingly, when someone like me shows up to give them the much needed break, they are scarce.

Ah. So you don't work with the homeless, you have the homeless work for you. Yes, that does make a difference in perspective.

I admire that and I also understand that you are now jaded in that effort.

The absences, the walking off the job and such-- Yes, very common.

You are obviously very good with, and gifted at numbers. Not everyone is. You have learned that with hard work, you can succeed. Some have learned that with the same hard work-- they can not only lose everything, but everyone. Not everyone is as "in tact" as you.

The 22 year old woman working for cash tips only-- because when she was eighteen, she got a DUI, failed a test when on probation (Marijuana or coc aine or crack-- I don't know) and so cannot get a license without first going to Prison. No ID means no home. At 18, she chose to run. She lives in the woods outside of town. She knows her dreams of what her adult life would be like are over. The prison record which awaits her killed her life as she hoped it could be-- and is it not understandable that she cannot see a way to move forward when forward is prison and nothing is known to her about what comes after-- just very low expectations?

She's "happy" that she got off the drugs herself, and has never prostituted herself-- but the cost of both those choices-- healthy ones-- is she sits under a tarp in the rain in the dark woods by herself and sobs that she has no hope, but only punishment before her.

Then there is "Mike." Half way through his Master's Degree when his wife left and he hit the streets, He took to Crack. He never got over his heartbreak-- some people are just sensitive that way-- and he never got over the crack. He goes straight now and then. Then I see him a week or so later and he is obviously on a brand new high. He explained, once, something like this:

"I was doing good. I have my place under the bridge, and my job on the telephone bank. It is not enough to get a place, but I've been under that bridge long enough that I know it will do. If I get one more hour of work a week, I loose my government check, and I can't make it without that. I feel so stuck. I've been there before-- right on the edge, and I always end up back at the bottom. So, some friends came by, and offered me a toke. Before you know it, my pay check is gone and we blew it all at a motel over three days. But as I said, I have been here before, and I will be here again."

Mike, "derelict" and "wino" and "bum" and so on, spoke to me the first time as I was commuting to work on a bus. I was reading, Henry V again. He taps me on the shoulder and begins reciting the St. Crispin's Day speech. We are laughing at the stares we get from the other commuters as we both emote self-indulgently. We became friends. When he would not be on the bus several days in a row, I knew he was ashamed. We shared books, had "high brow" discussions on Shakespeare and other literature. And once, my friend told me, "Sometimes, the most valuable thing, is knowing that someone sees you as a human being; but nothing will ever make me believe that again-- not for long."

So what employer is going to know "Mike" like that? Who will say, "Hey, Mike, I can't make up the difference between what you lose if I give you more hours, but I can pay you 'under the table' until you can get yourself settled?" Who will do that which is necessary. It is illegal, you know; but it is also the right thing to do.

You, sir, are trying to help them in way I cannot. But mind you, I am trying to understand them in way you cannot. Nothing works for either of us, unless understanding is hand in hand with helping. We both fail.

Why we both both fail, and in our failure-- fail the poor, is evidenced by this thread. It is there to see.

To all posters.

If you are blue collar, you have no choice but to save where you can.....I tried not shopping at Wal-Mart....It is impossible here.....Where do I go then? Dollar General.....

I do try to pick up some good old american made tp from there.........

I am currently working on getting myself out of this hole we call "happy". Because lets face it.....In todays world, where you have to pay $15 to go friggin fishing...Fine is $75 if you do not......You have to have money......Anyone that says you do not.......Has too much money......

I am working on it.......I am currently buying a silver eagle immediately after cashing my check.....Savings......The boss puts in 401 for me....I doubt that scam of a system so I am not personally adding to it yet.

If you want it, go get it.

My name is Liejunkie and I just finished two years of college. ....One of the few things I am thankful to the FED for......Got a union job in under a month....If I can do it........anybody can........If you say you cant.............that is your problem to figure out...

Getting out of this hole............Entering another one

They want the hard workers with the smarts.

The poor today are the average working class that can barely get by o minimum wage,they have a job but its not enough. Or they are retired and can barely afford rent and grocerys.

Most all of us in this condition are three missed pay checks from being homeless..
you are poor when you pay the rent pay the lights and wonder what you are going to eat !

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Darkblade71

 

Take a walk through a regular grocery store, go into the canned veggie section and start reading the labels on where it comes from.....even the crap on the local shelves mostly comes from China now.

I was shopping at a little farmer's market that sets up at our work on Mondays. I thought I was doing great in buying some produce from them, and then I got back to my desk and found the little Walmart sticker on one of my apples! I marched back outside and asked the guy if he got the apples at Walmart, and he said, YES! He showed me the one or two things that he got from a local farmer, but 80% of his stuff came straight out of Walmart!

He just goes and buys cheap stuff at Walmart, and then sells it at higher prices to people like me. If he hadn't missed a sticker, I would have never known.

A very sophisticated trap!

Well, I can say at least that you are supporting locally, so you half win. The store owner makes a profit, and you got your apples, supporting the local economy instead of it all going to Walmart.

I am in total agreement on buying stuff made in the USA, it doesn't break nearly as fast. If it was feasible I would be doing the same.

I've stated several times on ATS that we are dooming ourselves, however, how do the poor stop? We can't. This is a problem that needs to go higher up, people who are in positions of power need to step up and start the change so the rest of us can be sheeple and follow along with the program. Really, there is no other way, because the poor cannot afford to buy anything but "Made in China".

I remember when "Made in the USA" was all over the place, on TV adds etc, Then suddenly it was Japanese products, then Taiwan, and now China. I think the US Gov should fund advertisements and push people to buy American products.

We need to stop importing and outsourcing, it's killing us.

reply to post by Frira


Thank You.

There are those stories, and they are easy to lose track of, and I appreciate hearing them to put things in perspective.

There are also people like you that are willing to listen and get to know the individual, and people like me that are willing to do those "shady" things to help Mike, and the girl, but since people like you and me are rare, and people like her and Mike are rare, then it really becomes a matter of fate I guess. What are the chances of me meeting someone like Mike.

In my jaded outlook, I still blame those other losers for getting in the way of her and Mike, because if they weren't surrounded by a sea of losers, they might actually get the help they need. That's just my jaded look though, and I realize it is a harsh one. I wish I could help, and if you are near Tallahassee, FL or Joplin, MO, please feel free to U2U me.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Thanks for that.

As for the rest of my post, go read the book. It is based off decades of research.

Or, for that matter, try it for yourself. See how long a table from Target, or a table from O'Sullivan's lasts and how much it costs. Then see what your total cost over 40 years is for that table requirement. Then compare that cost to buying a high quality table from an antique store, or a high-end furniture store and maintaining it with polish and care for 40 years. You'll be surprised. Over the useful life, you will have a much nicer table, and an heirloom for your children, and you will spend less money.

Now the problem is getting that upfront cost. You will never be able to afford that nice antique table if you keep buying the cheap ones to get buy for now. You will have to make a sacrifice. You will have to say, "We can live without a table for a year or two, until we can save and pay cash for the right one."

Just think, if you make that sacrifice with everything. If you do without, and save, and then buy high quality, and you teach that approach to your kids, and you avoid cheap credit, and cheap merchandise, then by the end of your life, you will have an array of very high quality heirlooms to pass on to your children. Your friends will be jealous, your kids will have a little boost to their own collection, and you will save money!

--------------------------------------------------
I've experimented and begun this for myself. Instead of buying a $40 pair of work shoes this last time, I polished mine, and made them last another 6 months until I could afford a $150 pair. Then, I researched on the internet, and I visited my local cobbler store, an I bought about a $600 pair of shoes refurbished for $150. The cobbler can fix anything on them. Now, forever, I will be wearing the nicest shoes in any office. If I make a presentation to a board of executives somewhere, I will have the nicest shoes in the room! My next challenge is to do the same thing with a suit. Instead of buying the 2 for $99 deal. I will scrounge and make do, until I can buy a $1200 suit, used, and have it tailored to my body, and I will probably pay several hundred dollars, but that suit will last me a lifetime, and it will always be the nicest suit in the room. It won't take long before people think I am living rich, when in reality I am spending less than they are!

I'm sorry but who wants to live poor until they're 78 and then enjoy wealth for 6 months? That era has passed.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

I'm sorry but who wants to live poor until they're 78 and then enjoy wealth for 6 months? That era has passed.

Agreed.

But then again, if the only other choice is living poor forever, and leaving only debt to your children, then living poor til 78 and getting a little breathing room and providing something to pass down to your kids seems ok.

I mentioned earlier that I could live much more frugal than I do, but we do have to find some balance. The only thing certainly limited is time. We certainly do not want to spend our time frivolously. I'll take spending money frivolously over spending time frivolously any day!

The left would rather tax and spend us into oblivion. Let's take the medicine now, it will only get worse later if we postpone the misery. If the job creators don't follow through then raise the ante and remove tax breaks from those companies who outsource and move employment overseas..

For the past fourteen years I've managed to stay renting the same place with a pool and plenty of space for everyone inside and out.

I've slowly dug my gardens out of the granite and dg soil, gopher-proofed them with mesh, and made the fertile soil with patience and love over the years.

When we moved here I held two good-paying jobs, my lady had work, and my disabled brother had SSI. We had enough to provide for her daughter and son-in-law to get their feet under them and for her (the daughter) to get her GED and eventually an education and job as a Pharmacy tech.

Over the years, the hours shrank and eventually withered and died. My brother (post-polio) fell and sprained both ankles and knees severely, then tore a rotator cuff through overuse of his shoulders, and is now recovering from major surgery on the other rotator cuff and shoulder rebuild. My lady lost a leg in a car accident in the fog while taking her brother to a doctor's appointment. She withdrew into her own family and is lost to me now.

I've managed to keep us here by finding roommates (not easy, btw), odd consulting work, selling on ebay and craigslist.

Along the way I've helped everyone who's wandered to my door or asked my aid. Some with food, some with work, some with a place, some with advice, some with money, and a few by giving them their life back. I have a friend who will tell you she owes her life to me, that without my help and patience she'd be dead. Now she is working on her degree and is a good mother to he girls (they came after the saving). She was a minor manager in a chain store til they went out of business, and has been unable to find work since. She survives, but barely.

Some stole from me, some lied to me, some had to be banished, but also some learned and some recovered themselves, and some still honor me; a couple of those who stole from me eventually came back and apologized. But they all needed help and got it, to the extant that they could understand, accept, and make use of it.

I hope that what I've done counts for some karmic something, as it is down to my brother and me now, with few in a position to help. We have about two months left, then we must move because we can no longer afford to stay yet we can't afford to move. Our landlady wants more rent and no roommates.

Turns out most of my beloved treasures are worthless to everyone else, and I've already sold everything easily liquidated trying to find a way forward while waiting for the economy to recover.

So I have to look at this whole poverty thing in a different light now. I was cash-poor but not terribly vulnerable so long as I could maintain a nice home. I could grow my own food and provide extra to those who needed it. I had options: I could barter space for help, food, whatever.

Now because my income has dropped by a small but crucial amount while expenses rise, and options are shut out, I and my brother are suddenly far more vulnerable than we were.

I've juggled and pulled miracles out of my magic belly button for a couple of years now and the well's run dry.

For the first time in my life I asked an agency for help paying my electric bill. I've run out of self-help options, or I would never do it.

You see, some of us are smart, savvy, hard-working responsible people who have reached the end of the line and there's no transfer bus waiting to take us anywhere, because there are no jobs and no money and most of our friends are in the same boat.

I'm about to take the first step down from being a respected person to a lazy crazy drunk druggie bum in the eyes of many of my fellow citizens, unworthy of help because they once saw some folks who didn't know how to accept help, trust it, or believe in it and thereby screwed it up and so all help is a waste of resources yadayada.

It's kind of scary.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by dolphinfan

 

The "poor" in the US do not compare with the "poor" in Africa! Not even close!

That is very true. The social services in America ensure that the poor do not resemble the poor in Africa. Would you feel better if we had no social services and the poor of America were like the poor in Africa? Is that what you people really want? Do we want to watch children go without medical care and watch them starving living on nothing?

Maybe I am biased because I actually know what I am talking about. I have a job in social services, and you would not believe how many people I see every day that feel the need to remind me that they worked hard all their lives. That they were not one of THOSE people that took handouts. That they did the right thing and saved and built a nest egg. That THEY were once one of those people that looked down their noses at the poor. Then they or their spouse got sick and they spent every penny on America's outrageously overpriced medical bills. Now THEY are the ones thanking their lucky stars that there are social services. Now THEY see that it is possible that everyone on food stamps or medicaid is not just some leech looking for a handout. Many are legitimate hard working people that have fallen on hard times or, by no fault of their own, have just lost everything that they worked so hard for.

Maybe our class of poor doesn't measure up to the apalling conditions of the poor in third world countries. Thank GOD it doesn't!

Originally posted by moonleaf
[

Maybe our class of poor doesn't measure up to the apalling conditions of the poor in third world countries. Thank GOD it doesn't!

AMEN to that!

You take welfare away and a lot of people will starve and die.