Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


If someone is working 80+ hours a day and can't afford the basics they they need to try to find something else to do. Or, they could do what folks have historically done, which noone expects anyone to do any longer and that is move. There are massive differences between cost structures and quality of life throughout this country and if someone is having a tough time making it where they are, they should move. Does that potentially place different hardships? Maybe

I don't disagree with your comments about other countries. I've lived throughout Europe and the folks are happier and healthier. They also live in homes/apartments that by US standards would be tiny, have few clothes (what they have is of extremely high quality) but they don't a closet full of clothes they wear a few times a year. They don't in many cases have cars or if they do have cars they share with other family members and more often than not, extended families live together. There are a whole lot of folks on public assistance today who would never dream of moving back in with their parents, or have their parents or grandparents live with them. Grandma might want to watch the news and that would take away from playing Call of Duty.

Go ahead and live in Hawaii for a while. The Hawaiians are happy people. They live for their families and have an awesome respect for nature. You will also find 6 Hawaiians living in a 1200 sqft house with their parents, kids, elderly aunt. Things that you would be hard pressed to find on the mainland.

Again, lets define what we mean by poverty. I totally agree with the posts here that the larger problem is spiritual poverty, and there is no fixing that with a social program.

wow i guess i am living in poverty i thought poverty was no running water electrical power.

reply to post by Frira

But those of us work with, and not AT, the homeless know much more about what is going on which is not easily seen-- and not ours to tell. I don't even bother to suggest that there is more to the story to such volunteers. I don't want them around-- they would be better off clearing their consciences by writing a check.

No, I am not one of your people doing community service hours by volunteering, nor one of the bored housewives trying to tell a story to their friends. I've already told my involvement several times, but I will say it again. My experience is in "attempting" to employ and house the healthy homeless people that really are looking for a break. Amazingly, when someone like me shows up to give them the much needed break, they are scarce.

I've had one very good success story with a guy that got his life back on track. I've had several temporary success stories with people that were doing well, but fell off the wagon, or just up and disappeared. I've had a few assaults and arrests. Most of all, I've had countless disappointments when people just flat turned me down, or worked an hour or two and then wandered off. It makes me sad, but not empathetic, just sad for those dummies like you that are really trying to help people that don't want it or appreciate it.

And for someone to clear their conscience by writing a check could just as easily throw it in the trash. -->Tallahassee had a very hard winter a couple of years ago. The local shelter put out a call for help on the evening news. I emptied my survival kit and got about 8 nice shock blankets, new in the box. I went through my closets and got another few blankets and pillows. My brother did the same in his home. I took mine down to the shelter first, and nobody knew what to do with them. Nobody was directing anything, nobody was in charge. Eventually a guy from the kitchen came out and tried to help. A few hours later, my brother showed up with his stuff, and he saw my stuff in a trash pile. He asked that the hell was going on, and one of the volunteer women told him they could not accept used merchandise. They were discarding it! The shock blankets were still in the box, so he asked her about those. She didn't know what they are. They were clearly marked "blanket" and the instructions were on the box, but they were also being discarded. He got into a bit of an altercation with the volunteers, he retrieved a little bit of stuff, but then he was escorted out.

So, when you saps see the local shelter on the news asking for help, what they really mean is, "SEND CASH." They aren't interested in "help." They are really no better than the losers on the street corner with the sign that turn away work all day and only accept cash.

I do admire those of you that have the patience to be taken advantage of repeatedly and still get some comfort from trying again and again. I just don't have the patience for that. I believe too strongly in "natural consequences" and "natural selection."

reply to post by jjkenobi


Or maybe so many are on assistance and working because no one pays a living wage anymore. Seriously, have you ever been on public assistance? Trust me, it's far from luxury. Those that are living the life of the rich and famous are probably scamming the system. For every welfare queen you hear about on the news there are literally thousands of struggling families trying to do the right thing. Another thing is that this system encourages failure from the get go. They take away that safety net when you need it the most, when you go back to work and maybe aren't making that much money. If a single mom goes back to school and works part time, she is unlikely to receive anything past the grants and student loans because they welfare system counts that as income, even though she won't see any grant or loan money personally. She is penalized for it. She gets no help. Meanwhile her friend, who popped out two babies and works part time gets all the benefits the college girl would need. It used to be that way in unemployment too. If you went to a training program, vocational school or college to try to help yourself get a better job, your unemployment got taken away. So yeah, I can see where some people would get discouraged and sit on the butts. But it isn't everyone. A lot of working families are on food stamps and medicaid too. They're called the working poor.

Edit to add: Sometimes it's almost like the system is engineered to encourage failure to keep people down and keep certain politicians in power. Dividing us.

reply to post by Doax919


I very much agree
I made a joke earlier in the thread about all the material stuff I have, but I'm poor.

Just the people with money consider me poor though - I don't.

While I do qualify for welfare. based on my current income (consisting only of child support), seems to me the lower my money goes the less I stress I just have this awesome ability to live BELOW my means. And most of my luxuries were accumulated over the years I did work.

So they can keep it, give it to someone who's suffering without water and electricity.

I'm whats considered "Ghetto Rich!"

reply to post by getreadyalready


My God man, did you just propose that the wealth disparity in the USA is due to poor people microwaving their food and not paying enough for a good pair of shoes?

Seriously???

I count that as the post that made me stop reading this thread.

So in the greatest, most powerful, and wealthiest country on the planet, our poor need to quit whining because many of them have microwaves?

Originally posted by Forevever
While I do qualify for welfare. based on my current income (consisting only of child support), seems to me the lower my money goes the less I stress

I just have this awesome ability to live BELOW my means. And most of my luxuries were accumulated over the years I did work.

So...um...I have to ask.
How much of that child support takes care of your child if you are living off of that alone? You eat and wear clothes, right? You pay for a shelter of some kind for yourself, don't you?

I would be far more upset to find you spending my child support checks on your food and your clothes than to have you be on welfare. 100% of that child support is to support the children.

This is the problem right here. Too many people think they are taking care of themselves for not being on welfare all while still taking money out of somenone's mouth. In this case, apparently your child.

reply to post by apacheman

Don't tell me how you worked minimum wage unless you've worked it recently. Minimum wage hasn't budged in years, while everything has increased in price. Working minimum wage 20 or 30 years ago doesn't equate with today, even though the minimum wage rates are nearly the same as they were then.

The closest I have been "lately" is about 5 years ago when I went from making $70k plus my wife's $21k, to making $24k with one baby and one on the way. It wasn't minimum wage, but it did result in me losing my truck and eventually my house. We scrimped, we called in some favors, and we got by. We were what most would call lucky, but it didn't happen by accident. I am always willing to help anybody to any extent possible, and the few times I have found myself in need, I have been overwhelmed with support.

We reap what we sow.

I am doing well again now, and I share as much as possible. I am by no means rich, I have no savings, and I drive an old Ford Truck, and we have an old minivan, but we have a nice home again, and my doors are always open to my friends and family. We have big meals with lots of guests every Sunday. Some people bring food and beer and some don't. I don't ask why, everyone is welcome.

I have never said things are easy. Things are never easy. Even when someone is making $100k, things are not easy. It can end any day. Things come and go. Things are never easy. I'm not belittling the struggle, I'm just saying the struggle is the whole point! Persevere. Enjoy the little things. Don't fall into the trap that you are helpless against the tide. We are not helpless. Don't waste any time making excuses or wondering what-if. Just stay on the grind, learn the rules of the game, and then win it! If you can't do that, then change the rules. I'm just saying, nobody has to be a victim. It is a choice. It is always a choice, it just doesn't seem like it.

reply to post by Crapspackle


LOL are you trying to say that buying food for the house with child support money - is money NOT going to my children?
LOL

or are you trying to talk me into getting on welfare?

no I don't buy me clothes, thank you for the effort though
do I eat the food yeah, oh man, kill me now


Furthermore - isn't taking care of me in the absolute basic of EATING part of taking care of my children? If I dont eat, I DIE - where would that leave them???

Maybe those of us who have the things listed in the OP aren't poor.

Maybe we're all just flat broke!

When I think of poor, I think of struggling throughout my childhood. Not what my children have. So, no, I'm not poor. We just don't have any money for extras now.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

My God man, did you just propose that the wealth disparity in the USA is due to poor people microwaving their food and not paying enough for a good pair of shoes?

Seriously???

I count that as the post that made me stop reading this thread.

Yes, seriously. The "consumers" are mostly at the bottom of the income scale. They are the ones buying disposable items over and over and over and over, and each time they make that dumb purchase, someone at the top is banking some more money. The people at the top are not buying paper plates and plastic cups and $1 toys, and eating microwave meals, and trading in their car every year, and getting more and more upside down in their loans and credit cards.

The poor people consume unwisely, and they make the rich people even more rich. Most feel like they have no choice in the matter, and in some cases they are correct, but over time, if they want to pull themselves out of the gutter, they are going to have to change their habits.

Like I've said a million times. Don't take my word for it. You have choices. Do the math yourself, or read the data, buy the book, talk to a millionaire, find a mentor, do whatever it takes. If you don't find the same answers, then come back and prove me wrong.

* * * * * * * * * * *
For everyone that doesn't get this concept. Don't feel bad, this is the exact reason that people think we can "stimulate" our way out of this economic depression. This is the exact reason that people think printing more money will fix everything. Instead of conserving resources, we just want to increase the spending, increase the waste, fire up the factories, and increase the pollution. The $$ is king. Bow to its power, hate and envy those that have it, but don't ever look in the mirror, because that will bring the whole thing crashing down.

Originally posted by Hessdalen
most of the poor do drugs
many of them gamble
most of them smoke cigaretts

Numbers?
Links?
Data sheets?
Facts?

Fun to make thins up in order to make an argument isn't it?

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by Crapspackle

 

LOL are you trying to say that buying food for the house with child support money - is money NOT going to my children?
LOL

Yes. You eat and live there too, right? Who is paying for your food and your roof? According to you, child support. Are you suggesting that if you did not have a child, you would not eat or live inside?

or are you trying to talk me into getting on welfare?

If you qualify and are using child support checks to buy your own food, clothes, and shelter then yes.

no I don't buy me clothes, thank you for the effort though
do I eat the food yeah, oh man, kill me now

edit on 19-7-2011 by Forevever because: (no reason given)

You eat money that is paid for with child support payments. You are not that child. If you can say that makes you better than being on welfare then more power to you.

Furthermore - isn't taking care of me in the absolute basic of EATING part of taking care of my children?

Does your child get nourishment from watching you eat their food for them?

If I dont eat, I DIE - where would that leave them???

edit on 19-7-2011 by Forevever because: (no reason given)

Maybe with the person sending you checks to feed them with. Anywhere. You need a place to live if you have a child or not. You need to eat if you have a child or not. If you are paying for your home and your food out of child support payments you are certainly no better than someone who is on welfare.

Believe me, if I found out my child support was going into your mouth, that child would be out of your home real fast and you would have to find a way to pay for your own food and shelter.

reply to post by Crapspackle


You forgot to answer this one

Furthermore - isn't taking care of me in the absolute basic of EATING part of taking care of my children? If I dont eat, I DIE - where would that leave them???

And I own my home FYI

You completely miss the point that we're not suffering and DO NOT NEED welfare just because we bring in less than (whats the limit now? like 20 grand a year?) - give it to someone more needing - I think its admirable to live comfortably within my means and not ask for handouts - if you want to assume i feel superior that I'm not on welfare thats your choice but it has nothing to do with that - I don't think anyone is any better or worse than I am for collecting - I just CHOOSE not to.

Originally posted by getreadyalready


Like I've said a million times. Don't take my word for it. You have choices. Do the math yourself, or read the data, buy the book, talk to a millionaire, find a mentor, do whatever it takes. If you don't find the same answers, then come back and prove me wrong.

You don't know me or the circles I swim in. You are confused in your assumptions as to my income.

I have lived with and grown up in a community of multi-millionaires, many 2nd and 3rd generation and your claims as to what differentiates them from the poor are complete lunacy.

There is a car dealership in my town dedicated to keeping these folks in the latest Porsche, Ferrari or BMW. No one wants to be seen in last years model. You know very little of which you speak, but seem to have no issue pretending otherwise.

Not interested.

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by Crapspackle

 

You forgot to answer this one

Furthermore - isn't taking care of me in the absolute basic of EATING part of taking care of my children? If I dont eat, I DIE - where would that leave them???

And I own my home FYI

No I did not. Owning a home does not make it cost free. So you pay property taxes with child support. How proud you must be.

reply to post by Crapspackle


wow you must be on welfare and think I'm judging you or something
I never had anyone attack me for surviving without asking for handouts....
totally new to me....

reply to post by Indigo5


That's called "new money."

I never made any assumptions about your income or situation. I only said if you didn't believe me, do the research yourself. Here's a hint for you though, you won't find very many millionaires over at the dealership you speak of. You will find a lot of over-extended credit and prayers that the economy doesn't collapse their bubble before they can get just a little bit out of debt.

If you want to find the millionaires, go to the older, more established parts of town, with the homes that are 15-30 years old. Look for the nice, well-kept sedans that are a few years old. Look for the well-manicured and established lawns with nice trees. Definitely do not go to the latest and greatest subdivision with all the cute little trees and gorgeous new homes. The clueless are just clueless I guess?

If you don't believe my take on who is rich and who isn't rich, then check into some marketing practices, or find a well-established estate planner, or portfolio manager. They'll tell you who has "net worth" and who has "cash flow." The folks with "cash flow" and nice cars and brand new homes are the same folks that will never be rich.

This isn't a seminar, this isn't a college lecture, this is just me speaking from my experiences, acquaintances, and regurgitating a little bit of reading. I've been in that new car group keeping up with the Jones's, and it didn't work out too well. I've been lucky enough to become acquainted with some folks in that other category, and it is quite a different story over there. Those who don't want to listen, it doesn't bother me any. Make your own assumptions, and make your own way. I know which path I've been down, and I know which path I'm on. I know when I've been the happiest, and I know when I've been the saddest. I know when I've been the most stressed, and I know when I've been the most comfortable. I feel I'm on the right road these days, but to each their own. Do it your own way.

reply to post by dolphinfan


My family is multilingual, I speak (German, Romanian, Italian, English and French, the first four languages UK Community Interpreter certified), my son 6 speaks already three languages and my partner his dad four, we moved several times through Europe I was self-employed twice in my life and reading through my CV is already a pleasant adventure, we have two 9 to 5 office jobs and obviously do not qualify for any social benefit payments, after paying the rent for a two bedroom flat of 850Pounds a month, 400Pounds taxes to the government on my salary plus just the same amount on my partners salary, car tax and insurance 100Pounds, after school care for our son another 200pounds, electricity, gas,water and local tax another 300Pounds a month, we are pretty lucky to rely on a vegetarian and second hand shopping style (I prefer charity shops, because I want to help other people and also prevent corporations taking over) , we have no a/c or TV (our choice), we have though two Computer and an Internet connection.
We are educated middle class heroes and still we struggle sometimes towards the end of the month, even though my little family is contributing a lot towards society as tax payers, as vegetarians, as promoters of a multicultural open society...if we would not be working, we would have nothing...hence the middle class has become, what in earlier times were the people working for day-wages. And this is not complaining, it is a fact that the middle class will disappear, so we will have the very very rich and the poor, a trend, I would rather say an induced trend, who benefits again????