Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


Actually the Messiah will lead the Jews to Israel. Not a state with the name. Have you ever read the bible clearly?

Anyone with any knowledge of the Bible can see that the Jews are not supposed to redeem themselves from exile, but must wait for G-d to redeem them and gather them in. The "something" is the coming of the Messiah. The verses about G-d scattering us over the earth are in Deut. 4:27 and 28:64. The prophecy about G-d ingathering the exiles is in Deut. 30:1-5. This is besides countless passages in the prophets, mainly Isaiah and Ezekiel. Here is a partial list of verse: Isaiah 27:12, 40:9, 41:14, 43:5-6, 52:12, 54:7, 56:8, Jeremiah 16:15, 23:3, 30:10, 31:9, 33:7, Ezekiel 11:17, 20:34, 28:25, 34:13, 37:21, 36:24. Hosea 1:7, Micah 2:12, Zachariah 4:6, 8:7, Psalms 53:7, 106:47.

Source

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
If you look at Bible prophecy there is two that is verifiable and that is the Jews returning to Israel and that God promised he wouldn't destroy them.

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history and many have tried to destroy them but have failed. That fulfills the promise by God that he won't destroy the line of David.

The Bible also says God will gather his people back to Israel and that happened in 1948 with the creation of the state of Israel.

And sofar 40 major 'official' bible-based prophecies of kaboom-day going wrong.


But it's ofcourse convenient to disregard THESE failed prophecies, as they.........let me guess..... were made by the 'wrong' kind of christians.

The RATIONAL approach requires predictability and uniform answers (not to mention a strictly followed and well-defined methodology). Obviously the IRRATIONAL approach isn't that pernickety.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
If you look at Bible prophecy there is two that is verifiable and that is the Jews returning to Israel and that God promised he wouldn't destroy them.

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history and many have tried to destroy them but have failed. That fulfills the promise by God that he won't destroy the line of David.

The Bible also says God will gather his people back to Israel and that happened in 1948 with the creation of the state of Israel.

And sofar 40 major 'official' bible-based prophecies of kaboom-day going wrong.


But it's ofcourse convenient to disregard THESE failed prophecies, as they.........let me guess..... were made by the 'wrong' kind of christians.

The RATIONAL approach requires predictability and uniform answers (not to mention a strictly followed and well-defined methodology). Obviously the IRRATIONAL approach isn't that pernickety.

100 Fulfilled Bible Prophecies

As for the End of Days prophecies that you mock you can't lay blame on false prophets for it not coming to pass for the scripture says this "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." -Matthew 24:36

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


You wrote:

["As for the End of Days prophecies that you mock you can't lay blame on false prophets for it not coming to pass for the scripture says this "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." -Matthew 24:36"]

So on top of the pseudo-science, pseudo-logic and the semantic dodgings, we also have to consider the question of who the 'true christians' are and most likely another bout on bible-interpretation methodology.

I'm glad, that I mainly have to rely on the simplicities of science/logic.

But before getting around to your 'signs and wonders' department, I want to finish my initial intent of demonstrating the incompability of science/logic and gen. 1 and 2. When that is finished, I will spare time and energy on other directions. First things first, as MY direction now can have later consequences for what can follow.

According to the topic of this thread the bible is infallible. That means, that if one part of it doesn't hold this claim is invalid. Can you relate to that perspective for a starter?

reply to post by bogomil


Alright man lets get down to these contradictions you've been talking about for pages...

Maybe you might open up a thread on it, so as not to "derail" what is left of this thread.

who am i kidding this train derailed before it left the station

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by bogomil

 

Alright man lets get down to these contradictions you've been talking about for pages...

Maybe you might open up a thread on it, so as not to "derail" what is left of this thread.

who am i kidding this train derailed before it left the station

I would love to, but not knowing what the counter-position would be (that's why I'm so insistent on position and methodology), it could be a complete waste of time.

E.g. said edmc^2 something reasonable about the 'story' beginning 10 billion years into cosmic history, which would make a least a bit of sense, but also changing the whole following perspective radically.

I'll just hang around and wait until a christian with 'absolutes' turn up. I still have a few years to live, so it may happen.

reply to post by bogomil

I would love to, but not knowing what the counter-position would be (that's why I'm so insistent on position and methodology), it could be a complete waste of time.

Regardless of the "counter position"... After 29 pages this thread has been (as you said) a complete waste of time.

Besides isn't that the idea of a debate?

Scoring points on the Bog!


Why wait, at this point we're just chatting anyways....

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33

 

You wrote:

["As for the End of Days prophecies that you mock you can't lay blame on false prophets for it not coming to pass for the scripture says this "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." -Matthew 24:36"]

So on top of the pseudo-science, pseudo-logic and the semantic dodgings, we also have to consider the question of who the 'true christians' are and most likely another bout on bible-interpretation methodology.

I'm glad, that I mainly have to rely on the simplicities of science/logic.

But before getting around to your 'signs and wonders' department, I want to finish my initial intent of demonstrating the incompability of science/logic and gen. 1 and 2. When that is finished, I will spare time and energy on other directions. First things first, as MY direction now can have later consequences for what can follow.

According to the topic of this thread the bible is infallible. That means, that if one part of it doesn't hold this claim is invalid. Can you relate to that perspective for a starter?

Here is a site that covers why the Bible is the word of God and infallible. It covers topics such as fulfilled prophecies, perceived contradictions that people bring up, and external historical evidence that confirms the Bible.

Is the Bible THE Word of God?

reply to post by Akragon


I COULD turn it into a cliffhanger and spin out edmc^2's basic arrangement.

Some 10 billion years into cosmic history a new-comer manifests on this planet and makes some terra-forming. After having populated the planet, this entity(ies?) tells the new earthlings the story and later in the bible a bit offhandedly adds: "And btw I also created the whole cosmos" though not being very specific about the details.

Such details being of little interest or understanding for the then stone- or bronze-age humans, who just needed to know, who the boss was.

Now...if it turns out that gen. 1 isn't even slightly correct, this entity is ofcourse an impostor, which biased super-sceptics like me already believes. But more than that, we can also give some credibility to some of the 'ancient astronaut' theories. Only it wouldn't be 'ancient astronauts', because we would expect that astronauts actually WOULD know about how solar systems are formed and would have presented a better story, which would hold water (with or without a firmament if readers will excuse my pun).

Our more likely candidates would be hyperdimensional beings, who according to contemporary observations are able to manipulate matter psycho-kinetically, but are as technically and scientifically minded as the average badger (mostly an exellent animal, no offence to badger-lovers).

Some of these hyperdimensionaql beings are these days known as 'negatives', which when all comes to all is an unfair name, as the only thing they do wrong is to live on human (or other mammal) bio-energy. Thus being perfectly decent members of the cosmic family of predators, and unfortunately with mankind as their prey.

These 'negatives' formerly went under the name of 'demons' in some religions, so presto.....we have a tall yarn courtesy of edmc^2. A whole bunch of psychic parasites on mankind, lead by Jahveh.

Surely this narrative of mine DOES have a few gaps, assumptions or guesses, but what the bleep...anything goes outside rational reasoning.

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


You wrote:

["Here is a site that covers why the Bible is the word of God and infallible. It covers topics such as fulfilled prophecies, perceived contradictions that people bring up, and external historical evidence that confirms the Bible."]

And now can I have it in your own words, please; (starting with gen.1 and 2?). I'm not debating other web-sites, but individuals.

If that is impossible, here is a thread, which may explain much of it to you from the start. It's called: "Why 'god's' words the bible is infallible" and it's recommendable that you read all 29 pages, because a lot of things are covered on the way, which I wouldn't like to have to repeat.

If our respective positions confuse you, I'll gladly tell them once more. I'm primarely here to demonstrate gen 1 and 2 uncompatible with standard science/logic. And EVEN IF YOU SHOULD succeed with some of the 'signs and wonders', it wouldn't change anything. It would just prove, that some of the signs and wonders are correct, but not that the bible is infallible.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon

 

I COULD turn it into a cliffhanger and spin out edmc^2's basic arrangement.

Some 10 billion years into cosmic history a new-comer manifests on this planet and makes some terra-forming. After having populated the planet, this entity(ies?) tells the new earthlings the story and later in the bible a bit offhandedly adds: "And btw I also created the whole cosmos" though not being very specific about the details.

Such details being of little interest or understanding for the then stone- or bronze-age humans, who just needed to know, who the boss was.

Now...if it turns out that gen. 1 isn't even slightly correct, this entity is ofcourse an impostor, which biased super-sceptics like me already believes. But more than that, we can also give some credibility to some of the 'ancient astronaut' theories. Only it wouldn't be 'ancient astronauts', because we would expect that astronauts actually WOULD know about how solar systems are formed and would have presented a better story, which would hold water (with or without a firmament if readers will excuse my pun).

Our more likely candidates would be hyperdimensional beings, who according to contemporary observations are able to manipulate matter psycho-kinetically, but are as technically and scientifically minded as the average badger (mostly an exellent animal, no offence to badger-lovers).

Some of these hyperdimensionaql beings are these days known as 'negatives', which when all comes to all is an unfair name, as the only thing they do wrong is to live on human (or other mammal) bio-energy. Thus being perfectly decent members of the cosmic family of predators, and unfortunately with mankind as their prey.

These 'negatives' formerly went under the name of 'demons' in some religions, so presto.....we have a tall yarn courtesy of edmc^2. A whole bunch of psychic parasites on mankind, lead by Jahveh.

Surely this narrative of mine DOES have a few gaps, assumptions or guesses, but what the bleep...anything goes outside rational reasoning.

So hyper-dimensional beings makes more sense than a creator God? You ramble on like a crazy person. Why should I debate you? It would be futile. Besides those 'negatives' you ramble on about sound like Scientology's Body Thetans.

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


You wrote:

["So hyper-dimensional beings makes more sense than a creator God?"]

Momentarily disregarding the idea, that there is no 'god' at all, this is the hypothesis, which fits best with the available data. With the assumption, that 'demons' exist, a point we may have to agree on first.

Quote: ["You ramble on like a crazy person."]

Such depends on the perspective used, and I'm to polite to write MY perspective on theists.

Quote: ["Why should I debate you?"]

I don't know you well enough to have an opinion on that.

Quote: ["It would be futile."]

At least not completely, if you start with gen. 1 and 2. But it is beginning to dawn on me, that gen. 1 and 2 aren't that popular amongst christians in such a context.

Quote: ["Besides those 'negatives' you ramble on about sound like Scientology's Body Thetans."]

Only if you put them together in a very broad category, which then will be yours to validate.

It's not that I'm a scientologist though, but would that automatically disqualify me?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon

 

I COULD turn it into a cliffhanger and spin out edmc^2's basic arrangement.

Some 10 billion years into cosmic history a new-comer manifests on this planet and makes some terra-forming. After having populated the planet, this entity(ies?) tells the new earthlings the story and later in the bible a bit offhandedly adds: "And btw I also created the whole cosmos" though not being very specific about the details.

Such details being of little interest or understanding for the then stone- or bronze-age humans, who just needed to know, who the boss was.

Now...if it turns out that gen. 1 isn't even slightly correct, this entity is ofcourse an impostor, which biased super-sceptics like me already believes. But more than that, we can also give some credibility to some of the 'ancient astronaut' theories. Only it wouldn't be 'ancient astronauts', because we would expect that astronauts actually WOULD know about how solar systems are formed and would have presented a better story, which would hold water (with or without a firmament if readers will excuse my pun).

Our more likely candidates would be hyperdimensional beings, who according to contemporary observations are able to manipulate matter psycho-kinetically, but are as technically and scientifically minded as the average badger (mostly an exellent animal, no offence to badger-lovers).

Some of these hyperdimensionaql beings are these days known as 'negatives', which when all comes to all is an unfair name, as the only thing they do wrong is to live on human (or other mammal) bio-energy. Thus being perfectly decent members of the cosmic family of predators, and unfortunately with mankind as their prey.

These 'negatives' formerly went under the name of 'demons' in some religions, so presto.....we have a tall yarn courtesy of edmc^2. A whole bunch of psychic parasites on mankind, lead by Jahveh.

Surely this narrative of mine DOES have a few gaps, assumptions or guesses, but what the bleep...anything goes outside rational reasoning.

I thought we were talking about the contradictions of Gen 1 vs 2?

Though i suppose its just as rational to say we were put here by aliens as it is to say we were created in an instant. I don't think that was the issue you've been talking about...

reply to post by Akragon


You wrote:

["I thought we were talking about the contradictions of Gen 1 vs 2?"]

That was initially started with someone else, and wasn't my first choice. Though I tried to follow it up, because gen.1 seemed terminally unavailable then; as it does now.

Quote: ["Though i suppose its just as rational to say we were put here by aliens as it is to say we were created in an instant. I don't think that was the issue you've been talking about..."]

It isn't actually a hypothesis I will promote very hard. As you know, I generally prefer the 'agnostic' position. But optional answers can be fun, and I did it because you asked. So I gave you a kind of answer, which you are free to disbelieve without any hard feelings on my part.

My real issue is, that the bible isn't infallible.

reply to post by bogomil


As is mine actually, but clearly this is going no where. The op hasn't proven a thing, and fails to answer even the most basic logical question posed to him aside from posting endless verses of scripture.

I kinda gave up on this thread about 15 pages ago when he couldn't answer a simple question.

reply to post by Akragon


You state the question and I will give it a go! Worth a try at least

reply to post by Akragon


When the usual exchange of bible-verses is done with in a couple of weeks, I'll be on stand-by with logic.

Originally posted by bogomil

Our more likely candidates would be hyperdimensional beings, who according to contemporary observations are able to manipulate matter psycho-kinetically, but are as technically and scientifically minded as the average badger

Actually you don’t need hyperdimensional badgers, I know some genuine card carrying - pot smoking/acid taking - hippies who could have come up with the whole of genesis on one of their trips – there is a load of evidence that in very earliest religions where based on getting stoned and having trips to who knows where?

(mostly an exellent animal, no offence to badger-lovers).

badgers – badgers, we don't need no stinking badgers

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
If you look at Bible prophecy there is two that is verifiable and that is the Jews returning to Israel and that God promised he wouldn't destroy them.

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history and many have tried to destroy them but have failed. That fulfills the promise by God that he won't destroy the line of David.

The Bible also says God will gather his people back to Israel and that happened in 1948 with the creation of the state of Israel.

And sofar 40 major 'official' bible-based prophecies of kaboom-day going wrong.


But it's ofcourse convenient to disregard THESE failed prophecies, as they.........let me guess..... were made by the 'wrong' kind of christians.

The RATIONAL approach requires predictability and uniform answers (not to mention a strictly followed and well-defined methodology). Obviously the IRRATIONAL approach isn't that pernickety.

Actually, the Tribulation is an open ended prophecy, the Lord gives his saved children signs that we shall recognize when it begins. Guess what? You're not saved so you aren't going to see it coming. We already see it coming, in fact were in the Time of Sorrows right now. Now be a good atheist and go dig in the bible to try to prove me wrong using passages you couldnt possibly understand. Or your own "human" rationality.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You wrote:

["Actually, the Tribulation is an open ended prophecy, the Lord gives his saved children signs that we shall recognize when it begins. Guess what? You're not saved so you aren't going to see it coming."]

And the flying spaghetti monster has told ME, that this is NOT going to happen. That's it's just a cooked-up fantasy.

Quote: ["We already see it coming, in fact were in the Time of Sorrows right now"]

That's what they probably said the 40 earlier times also.

Quote: ["Now be a good atheist and go dig in the bible to try to prove me wrong using passages you couldnt possibly understand. Or your own "human" rationality."]

Or alternatively you be a good theist and start learning about rational reasoning. Why on earth should I rely on your circular premises, when I actually have one part of them ready for a reality check, gen 1 and 2. Where were you and other preachers, when we tried to get this reality-check running against masses of semantic evasions for 29 pages?