The NA and AA program.

reply to post by Bokaforo


Don't know, sweety but I wish you the best. Be kind to yourself, let the past go and tell yourself you are good enough. Who needs a group of people to make you feel you are worthwhile, after all? Sometimes we have to realize we are enough. Especially when those who should have been there in the first place to show us love and security weren't. They weren't then, they won't be now so it is up to us to be there for ourself. And that's okay, too.

reply to post by queenofsheba


Your words are written beautifully. I am at work and you made me tear up. I wish there were more people like you in this world.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
At least you're alive and breathing. Take the little things and be grateful. An addict, whether at age 22 or 50 is still and addict. To think you can sort of do things "in moderation" and remain in control of your addiction is just another lie we tell ourselves. I can see how those in the program would drop you once you went out to live your life in "moderation." The people in those programs truly survive by that "all or nothing" thinking." I'm sure you get what that means. Don't put it on them.

edit on 18-7-2011 by queenofsheba because: add line

edit on 18-7-2011 by queenofsheba because: add line

Most people who are "addicts" are titled as such by people that are concern about them.
It is fair to be concerned about someone if they are misbehaving, but branding them an addict is not productive.
Most people who think are addicts are not really addicted to drugs, they are just needing comforting experiences.

My point is, the title of 'addict' is stigmatized, it is also broadly applied often incorrectly.
Believing you are an addict is laced with shame based conformism.

Genuine addiction is a medical issue, and is pretty easy to deal with.

I have come into contact with many drug users and addicts,
most of them reach a state of maintenance, or get bored of using.
Others stop due to the limiting factors of using drugs (they damage you)
the people who get "addicted" are mostly those who have obsessive tendencies that will manifest in all kinds of ways other than drug use.
The people that die, do so mostly by accident.

Social support is a good for people, so in this regards AA/NA are a good thing.
Developing a mature understanding of pharmacology is more productive than moralizing.

Developing mature legislation will make people much safer in their choices.

reply to post by rom12345


Oh, trust me I'm not moralizing or judging. I understand what labels do and how they "brand" people. I do know one thing, that addiction to drug(s) is real. Seen it firsthand throughout my life and lost my big brother to his meth addiction. He thought meth made him stronger, better, faster; etc. Watched him on life support mutltiple times and saw how that drug broke our mother's heart. In his case, I think total abstinence would have saved his life. I've seen how other people, like my dad, learned how to drink in moderation and by the time he was in his 50's he seemingly learned how to control it. He too died kind of quick, like bang, too. I do know this; those of us who grew up without the love and support that children should have sort of fumble through life; looking for love and acceptance. And it's funny how "like attracts like," we are drawn to those like us. Sometimes, that's not the best choice for us, though.

My heart goes out to the OP because of the young age she's at, and the struggles she's already gone through. We each need to make a choice. The trouble lies in that "all or nothing" thinking people have who haven't learned how to function as healthy adults, due to their troubled childhoods. It makes it that much harder, every day, to make a good choice. And the confusion, and the not having good role models that are in "the middle" that makes it so confusing sometimes.

reply to post by queenofsheba


I am a male. Emotions come in both species. Thanks though. Some people run from me because of how open I am and always will be.

reply to post by queenofsheba


I completely agree, and sympathize with your family.

I do however think many people accept the title of "addict" almost with relief, as it gives them reason to continue self destructive behavior.

Often the continuos self judgment (i'm an addict, i'm an addict),
and the judgment of others, exhaust the addict, and they relapse catastrophically.

reply to post by rom12345


This is the feeling I started to get towards the end. People gravitated back to me as I stayed sober. I knew I did not want to use "I am an addict" as an excuse when coming clean to the people I hurt. That is the way I felt when I said it. For other people I am sure it may not be an excuse but it was for me.

reply to post by Bokaforo


You must know....drugs and alcohol are not the problem, they are the solution. Therefore the problem is within YOU. The 12 step recovery program teaches you (by working ALL 12 STEPS) how to overcome your own issues and live a happy and healthy life. It is a way of living to be integrated into YOUR life. By drinking puts you in a very vulnerable position and impares your judgment. And people in the program consider you to have relapsed. Therefore to protect themselves, they keep their distance. See......when you are walking the path of sobority, you're all my business but once you've taken that first drink or drug.....you become "none" of my business. It is self protection. And frankly people who are sobor traditionally choose to be around people of like mind. It is not fun to be around someone who is drinking when you are not....correct?

Addiction is genetically inheriated. Although not always acted on, more often then not it is. Maybe the people that helped you...feel as though YOU turned your back on them, instead of the other way around. And if you had gone one step futher in your recovery......you would be able to see your part in this. But since you chose not to, you'll have difficutly understanding "rationally" what happened and why. You see...the fourth step is formula used by most people in recovery. I also read this spiritual a book that called it the "golden rule" in life. It is an ingenuis formula that works like a charm. And it doesn't matter if you were an addict for 1 or 2 years....or 30 years...once an addict, always an addict and that portion is physiological. There is no changing or denying this medical FACT.

So moving forward....if you are no longer interested in paricipaing in the recovery program....then don't. And do exactly that.....MOVE forward. However, I'm hearing some underlying guilt in your OP. I believe you know exactly what you should be doing. You are just looking for something or someone to tell you it's okay to not go to meetings and work the steps. You probably will not find anyone to tell you that with experience in this field. So good luck, and when you are ready.....don't be afraid to walk back into the rooms.

reply to post by Bokaforo

what i'm about to say is gonna sound harsh, but if you read my earlier posts, you know i know a little about what is being said here.

i see where you said in the op you occasionally drink, and then you said you don't do any of the drugs you used to do
you do know that alcohol is a drug too, and that even if you aren't doing your drug of choice, your are still using a drug. by far one of the worst drugs that are available, one of the things alcohol does is tear down inhibitions, and you might start thinking about your ol buddy meth or was it crack. just a guess there. even with alcohol once the dopamine gets to firing and the receptors start receipting, and you get all happy, you are just a drink or two away from making a bad choice.

i will say this for aa/ na. they are right about at least 1 thing, you cant continue to use if you don't want the negative consequences that come from them. you may think you are in control, but your are not.
so for them they may have to stay away from some one who still chooses to use. no matter how the felt about you, it's about them and their recovery not yours.
.
and as far as this comment.

I understand the circumstances of people that are 50 and spent thirty years addicted to a substance. I spent two, three years addicted to a particular drug. I also have an extreme family background of drug abuse and violence.

just two or three years addicted, what childish arrogance, you were hooked in just two or three years. and i have a feeling that this is the main reason you went to jail.
and i say you are still addicted because, you drink., if you smoke cigs thats one thing, but if you burn the left handed ones, or any other substances, you are addicted and have not given it up and are destined to fall again.

see here the definition of addiction from dictionary.com

Medical Dictionary
ad·dic·tion definition
Pronunciation: /ə-ˈdik-shən/
Function: n :
compulsive physiological need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal

broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be physically, psychologically, or socially harmful compare HABITUATION

also from the same link

addiction ad·dic·tion (ə-dĭk'shən) n.
Habitual psychological and physiological dependence on a substance or practice beyond one's voluntary control.

time to fess up, admit it or continue on in denial and we will read about you in the news paper one day.

Boka, brother..

I could tell a similar story, although when I realized I was in too deep I fled to another state where I knew no one and stayed until I felt I was ready to return. I have never participated in any programs.

Nearly 10 years later and I am still fine. Respectable, in fact.

Like you, I see no problem indulging responsibly where I had no problems previously. I never had a problem drinking, so I see no issue with having the occasional drink.

A program and a group of people to support you can help, but ultimately all answers are found within. If you have found a way to manage and you are being true to yourself, living healthily and happily, and have found a balance, then I say more power to you. Those that cannot accept and therefore participate in your journey, sadly, must be let go. You shouldn't feel guilt or pain, just happiness that they are treading their path and you yours.

Time is great medicine. Those who you truly connected with will be back when they've moved on to an appropriate stage in their journey.

I don't want to offend or discredit anyone at all. I just wanted to give my opinion because this issue is personal to me.

reply to post by Bokaforo


Bokaforo, S&F for your honesty and openness, as well as not carrying resentment about how your parents treated you in childhood. It took me 25 years to finally stop blaming mine for not seeing who I am, really am.

I'm a great deal older than you are but still remember how lonely I felt, how totally I gave my heart to others, how much joy I felt that we were close, and how devastated I was when they moved on, and I didn't understand why. The loneliest age was early 20s, like you are. That's when I got into various drugs, alcohol, and a lot of partying. I felt that if anyone knew how messed up I was, they wouldn't like me anymore, so I learned to not let people get too close. Of course that didn't work either. After several decades and reading a thousand books (or so) on spirituality, psychology, metaphysics, ancient wisdom, etc., I finally got sober and am finding that the joy I looked for is within me. It sounds trite, but it's true for me.

The AA/NA program is a fascinating process IMHO. It teaches the same life lessons that many other spiritual teachings do; it just uses different words and a different process. I went to almost 90 in 90, and I got a sponsor, but I didn't do the "let's have coffee" thing have daily contact with her. (I tend to be a loner.) After the first 6 months, I stopped going to meetings but continued doing the steps on my own. My suggestion is to add the 12 Steps to your spiritual practices, and do them by yourself if that's what works for you.

The main thing I'd like to say to you is this: All honest time and love you gave to others is not wasted. It will come back to you in some form. Your decision to use again ("relapse") put your sponsor in a position where a choice had to be made between their recovery and the relationship with you. They likely believe that without their sobriety, they have nothing, so you lost. It might have hurt them a lot too. At any rate, your time and love was not wasted.

Also, if you don't like to drink, why do you drink once a month? That's one thing that's so insidious about alcohol. Unless the underlying issues are dealt with, it will creep up on you again, as will other drugs. For me, it's true what they say: One drink is too many, and a thousand are not enough.

It would have been nice to have woken up to my issues at such a young age as you. Good for you for that, although I'm sure it doesn't feel good right now. You're not alone with how you feel. Definitely not alone.

One moment at a time, with or without the program.

reply to post by Bokaforo


Everyone who has a problem with a substance, especially alcohol due to its integration within society and needs to stop has to come up with an explanation for their not drinking/using when around others. Everyone knows what addiction is and should someone not accept your sobriety is not a friend or is too immature to have as a friend anyway. Just be honest and you'll see who your friends really are. Keep in mind that there are many folks who have problems that will want you to keep drinking because it justifies their own abuse. Its a lot easier to explain to someone (particularily a spouse) that "Bob and I got hammered last night at the party" or "that Bob! he got me hammered last night" rather than "I got hammered at the party last night". There are folks who will be angry when they find you are not an excuse for their own abuse. The hell with them - their problems are not yours unless you choose to attempt to help them with it, and until someone asks for help and until you had a handle on your own issues, I would recommend not offering it - you'll come up as a moralizer.

Drugs are not evil. Drugs and alcohol are problematic for some folks in the same way sugar is problematic to a diabetic. Its that simple and nothing to be ashamed of. Like diabetes, the treatments, methods of control are different, for some it is mandatory total abstinence. For some its very serious and requires insulin, for others it is controlled via diet and exercise. In my experience alcohol abuse is similar, the key is that, like a disease like diabetes, you need too understand your disease and actively manage it or it will manage you.

As far as harms you may have done to people, what your state of mind was at the time or the level of your usage at the time is irrelevant. The harm is the same and drugs and alcohol are a poor excuse. Appologize and remedy the harm, period. If someone asks you why you did something, honestly level with them, but don't let them take you off the hook for it, remedy it if possible and be done with it. The character that shows and the way you will feel about yourself afterward is its own reward.

There are many positive substitutes for drug and alcohol abuse. Meditation, physical fitness, positive things like volunteering, more education, a lot of them. As a addict, you may find that you're all or nothing with those things, but thats OK, they are positive. Personally I'm not an addict/alcoholic but rather an extreme person. If I'm drinking, I drink 12-18 beers a day and will drink that much until I stop. I'll stop one day but I will need to substitute if for something else. If I exercise, it can't be 30 minutes a day, it has to be 3 hours and a draconian diet. Being unable to moderate, I know that I can't have a drink. I can have 12, but I can't have one. I can go three years without having a drink and never think about it, but then have one and it leads to 12+. I know that about myself, so I just don't drink.

Everyone is different and as you'll see from the replys to this post, many folks have a genuine interest in others and have experiences and insights that might help you. That is the primary benefit from an AA program in my opinion in that it puts you in contact with those folks.

reply to post by Bokaforo


There's only one step--put the s**t down. I know how hard that is, but it really is that simple.

And for those of you who think addiction is some trivial thing... go try it sometime. Let me know what you think.

NA and AA is for Quitters

Originally posted by Bullcookies
NA and AA is for Quitters

No they aren't, you ignorant prick. They help a lot of people.

reply to post by Angelicdefender2012

There is no changing or denying this medical FACT.

I don't think so. This is what we've been led to believe.

reply to post by NthOther

Your quitting your addiction aren't you?

reply to post by NightGypsy


There are many things that are considered medical "facts" that rely on purely ancedotal evidence. There are unquestionably folks who had serious problems with substance, cleaned themselves up and are now able to drink responsibly. They were not addicts. They had a temporary cycle where they got in a rut and used alcohol for any number of reasons to escape the reality that they were in.

Addicts are different. There are chemical differences in their bodies that create sensations towards certain substances that others don't have. There are differences in brain chemistry. Those folks will always be addicts the same way a diabetic will always be sensitive to sugar consumption.

The challenge is that the two are lumped together. Folks who have what might be a temporary problem with alcohol are deemed to be alcoholics when there is a decent chance they are not. Of course the flip side is that folks who are alcoholics are often convinced they are not, resume drinking and the progressive nature of the disease takes further impact on their lives and health.

You need to be honest with yourself and get to understand your body, your emotional state and their relationship to alcohol/drugs, make your own determination and live your life accordingly. If you are uncertain, abstain

Originally posted by NthOther

Originally posted by Bullcookies
NA and AA is for Quitters

No they aren't, you ignorant prick. They help a lot of people.

I think you took it wrong...

reply to post by whaaa


I would have to agree.