To Alien Skeptics: Tell us what it would take to convince you.

How about this one? Why don't you prove it? Prove all of it? What concrete, no shadow of a doubt evidence to you have to enlighten the world. Show me E.T., show me the ufo, show me bigfoot, loch ness, werewolves, the lizard man, god,etc......

people believe in god strictly because of faith. people see a image of jesus on a napkin and say "holy #...thats jesus." really? how does anyone know what jesus looks like? because of a painting some dude did say 1000 years after his supposed death. right. People see big furry # in the woods....its bigfoot. As much as i like the idea, and want to believe...where is the proof? where is the proof for any of it. Is it possible? sure. is it true....? who knows. your not gonna prove it. i wish you could.

reply to post by Mizzijr

Do you care if they think you're crazy? If you do, you shouldn't. We are all crazy.

Best line I've read in a long time !!!

Ditto !!

My thoughts, are there "aliens" as in sentient beings, I'm just not buying it.

Sorry, would take a mothership on my front lawn and them knocking on my front door for "disclosure" to happen for me. Now, is there life outside our rock, biology, sure absolutely.

What would it take to convince you of alien visitation to this planet?
1) An honest government who were concerned with humanity,
2) no knowledge of TPTB,
3) no knowledge of black ops,
4) A nice cosy chat with a few ETs
5) an explanation of where all our tax dollars were spent
6) a trust in my government
7) no knowledge of disinfo tactics
8) all TPTB rounded up.
Look, can I prove that ETs are/are not visiting this planet? No.

Do you believe we are alone in the Universe? Probably not.
Do you believe in God? Yes.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
1: What would it take to convince you of alien visitation to this planet?
2: Do you believe we are alone in the Universe?
3: Do you believe in God?

1: Peer reviewed evidence of real alien artifacts/beings/radio signals.

2: Believe is the wrong word - either there is, or there isn't. The common answer is along the lines of there are lots of stars therefore life is common. Unfortunately, that's irrelevant. What counts is a proper understanding of the chemical processes which led to life on Earth - was it simple and enevitable, or outrageously difficult. We simply don't know. So my opinion is, I'll wait and see what the evidence suggests when we have it. For the record, I certainly hope there is life elsewhere, but i don't believe in life elsewhere. As for intelligent life, I imagine that would take a whole series of evolutionary quirks to produce.

3: No



To add, most of the so called best evidence is nonesense. Four of the most commonly used stories are Roswell, Rendlesham, Pheonix and JAL. All four of those are total nonesense. However, there are genuinely a small handful of cases which I have no explanation for - that's not to say ET is involved, just that they remain unexplained. Shag Harbour and the Iranian incident are some of the best.

Let me say something about us sceptics and debunkers. If someone shows me a picture of a dog, and claims it is a cat, I'm gonna tell them it's a dog. Unfortuantely, here at ATS, pointing out such obvious nonesense gets one labelled a closed minded debunker! Go figure...

Yeah, show me an alien!

I myself am not really a sceptic, but I am curious!
Since thousands of years, we want to see something ... people are waiting for a messiah, god or aliens ... they just want to see something that explains everything, or makes another point of view more acceptable.

Have we been created by aliens? Sure, why not. There are a few possible parents out there, just read the articles and stories about the Annunaki and Elohim for example. Also it happened a long while ago, it is still possible that they come by once a while, to see how we are doing and if we are still productive enough.

There are also people, that say that they have been abducted by aliens. Other people say, that the Greys have a contract with some governments, that allows them to do so. We get some technical knowledge, and the Greys can try to create a mix-creature. A win-win situation. It would just be nice, to be informed, before waking up in a weird spaceship and somebody grey tries to implant a small gadget into your body.

Some others speak of the "Galatic Federation of Light" and a "Dark Alliance", with lots of members. Beings that look like horses, humen, snakes, dragons ... it seems to be very busy out there ... and I think, it is also pretty spacious ... enough space for everybody! Like "Star Wars"! Freaking beings everywhere!

I myself saw a few strange things flying around (orange balls or orbs --- lots of them / dragon like - cloud like beings/spaceships) but that's it. I did not see an alien, nor was I abducted. But I can say, I believe in UFOs.
Who built them, is something else. We know that they built UFOs 60 years ago (Hitler & co), maybe a bit more primitive, but why shouldn't this have changed over the last decades (most of the NAZI scientists worked for the NASA afterwards).

But ... we are always told, that something is coming from the outside. Out of space, the heavens or another place, where we can't really see anything. We always have to believe in other people and what they have figured out and may have seen.
We live in a time, where everybody else can see, that the true power is inside of us. The inner god! Your true existence! All answers you are looking for are inside of you. Because as above, so below. Everything is the same, it just looks different.
While we are looking up into the sky and wait for green, grey and purple beings to emerge, why shouldn't it be possible that these beings have been here for ages and still are?

"Agartha" - "The Hollow Earth" - the aliens live in the inner earth layers -
There are supposed to be openings on both poles and many tunnels in lots of places ... really loooooong ones!
(California for example has some that are miles long/deep). Maybe they tried to hide from something ... meteors, vulcanic eruptions, floods, ice ages, or it just became to hot on the surface ... everything is possible.

Another fun factor is, that our DNA is adjusting at the moment. Some strings are added, so we can become a better version of ourselves. Some can feel it happening (headaches, flues, sneezing, dreams, muscles become harder, everybody perceives more than before,...). If itis possible, that changes in the DNA happen like that, what do we need aliens for? Is it possible that it always happened like this and aliens, gods or whoever was always just a possible reason for an explenation?

To fully believe in aliens, but I like to see one. Maybe have a quick chat and a few drinks with that being, so that I am covinced. I think they are everywhere. Maybe we can't yet see them, because of a different dimension, or we just do not see them, because we are not certain how to perceive them. But in the end, they do not really care, if we belive in their existence, because they live anyways.

Honestly, existence would be a bit boring without other beings, but if these other beings are coming from somewhere else, or if we are these other beings, we will see in a bit :-)

Originally posted by WhatAliens
1: Peer reviewed evidence of real alien artifacts/beings/radio signals.

2: Believe is the wrong word - either there is, or there isn't. The common answer is along the lines of there are lots of stars therefore life is common. Unfortunately, that's irrelevant. What counts is a proper understanding of the chemical processes which led to life on Earth - was it simple and enevitable, or outrageously difficult. We simply don't know. So my opinion is, I'll wait and see what the evidence suggests when we have it. For the record, I certainly hope there is life elsewhere, but i don't believe in life elsewhere. As for intelligent life, I imagine that would take a whole series of evolutionary quirks to produce.

3: No

That sums up my thoughts for #1, great answer. For #3, I can't prove God doesn't exist, so I have to say agnostic. And some people like Einstein defined God as whatever put the natural laws we observe in place, so it sort of depends on what your definition of God is. I certainly believe the universe is governed by natural laws, since that's the basis for most science.

Regarding #2, I'd also add that intelligent life is extremely rare, even on Earth, as measured on a time scale. The technology to build the kinds of things SETI looks for like radio transmitters is only a century old, yet Earth has been in existence for 4.54 billion years. That means that radio-technology intelligence has only been present on Earth for .000000022 of its life.

Or to put it another way, for 99.999998% of the Earth's existence, it has NOT had intelligence of the kind that SETI looks for. So even on Earth we have to say intelligent life is rare. I suspect that may be true elsewhere in the universe too. One set of numbers Carl Sagan used in the Drake equation calculated there might be 10 intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy. If that is correct, and if they are relatively evenly distributed throughout the galaxy, they are likely so far apart that they may never know of each others existence, and travel between them may be nearly impossible, and would certainly be impossible with any existing technology.

Regarding how likely life of any kind is, like you I'm not as convinced as some people that it's "inevitable". I'm probably a little more optimistic in this area than you, but I must agree with you, how common life is remains to be seen. Nobody really knows. If we were to find an independent life form had evolved on Mars which are genetically unrelated to any Earth life, that would go a long way to show that life is a likely result of natural processes. Right now we just don't know how likely or unlikely it is.

To add, most of the so called best evidence is nonesense. Four of the most commonly used stories are Roswell, Rendlesham, Pheonix and JAL. All four of those are total nonesense. However, there are genuinely a small handful of cases which I have no explanation for

Yeah I agree those four cases aren't compelling to me either. In Phoenix before the flares, some people claimed to have seen a large craft, but nobody got any good video of that, and even if they saw something, the only crappy video anyone got doesn't rule out a group of planes flying in formation, or possibly a stealth blimp.

So what are some of the handful of cases you think aren't nonsense? Personally I have no explanation for the 1957 RB-47 case, or the 1976 Iran case. But just because I can't explain them doesn't mean it was aliens, it just means we don't know what it was.

By the way, if the "Alien Autopsy" video had been real instead of a fake, that would have been pretty interesting evidence. But it was just a hoax.

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
It really amazes me how some of you are so willing to believe that we have been visited by Aliens.

Yes the Universe and indeed our own Galaxy very probably contains many species capable of varying degrees of technology, but...

The likelihood of them being able to survive our atmosphere, be it the gases or the pressure are extremely slim to none.

Why would we always think from a human standpoint? Why can't life exist in a totally different composition?

Secondly and perhaps more importantly, the likelihood of them being able to travel the extreme distances involved in interstellar travel are next to zero.

Why does life has to be born a certain way? Why can't they acquire stellar technology without indulging themselves in materialistic attributes or destroying themselves? If every life has to go through nuke wars and word wars, there is really no point in being in a planet and just wondering what to do next- whether to fight with each other or go catch the stars

Is it any coincidence that Aliens and UFO arrived into our psychology just at the point in time that we are developing and researching certain technologies ? isn't it more likely that Aliens and UFO are a cover story for secret Human endeavors ?

No these ufos have been seen in ancient paintings and every civilization has record of it.

Common sense and logic dictates that everything seen or witnessed since the beginning of the 20th century and certainly since ww2 is man-made in it's origins.

Some are man-made but not each and everyone.

And as i said before, show me an Alien, you won't because you can't.

No alien will come and have a smile in front of our cameras. And not everyone carries slr cameras when they are abducted. Ancient people didnt invent camera back then. But they drew what they saw.

The distances needed to enable alien visitors I believe preclude visitation. The time needed makes it impossible to my mind for such events even travelling at or near the speed of light it would take longer than many a noted Empire on earth has lasted. Then you have to take into account sustenance, maintanance in fact the whole logistics scenario which I feel tends to be left out of most theories. Wormholes? I'll leave the speculation on that subject to those much better qualified.



As to being alone in the Universe that would depend upon what forms of life could be out there and to deny the possibility that some life forms exist out there would be arrogant. Sentient beings though is quite a concept to grasp and the jury may be out on that one for a long time.

God. No no no, what an oppressive paranoic notion sold to the masses. Infantile and silly.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
I'm interested to learn what evidence of alien visitation to this planet would be sufficient enough to change a skeptic's mind. It's obviously-not weight of evidence, for there are countless thousands of videos, pictures, and testimonies from laymen to experts, and yet the skeptics still brush it off.

Just because a ton of gold and a ton of crap weigh the same, it doesn't mean they have the same value.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
Can all that stuff really count for nothing?

Yes.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
Is it even feasible that every single video, every single photograph, drawing and testimony throughout human history was either fake or a mistake?

Yes.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
If you don't believe in alien visitation to Earth, do you accept that there are very-probably millions of alien species out there, scattered throughout the universe? Or do you think we are alone?

It could be both. So many variables out there...we could be a common phenomenon throughout the galaxy or we could be the lucky ones.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
And lastly to the skeptics- do you believe in God? Do you go to church? Because to my mind, anyone who believes in God, by default believes in an omnipotent extra-terrestrial being with super-powers.

A belief in God is completely irrelevant to the conversation. An irrational belief in one subject does not make another, unrelated subject real.

But to answer your question, no.

I am curious, why do you even care what skeptics think?

Skeptics will never believe it. Even if the US president told them in a personal interview.
They are just trying to deny it. instead of looking at it from a different perspective.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The technology to build the kinds of things SETI looks for like radio transmitters is only a century old, yet Earth has been in existence for 4.54 billion years. That means that radio-technology intelligence has only been present on Earth for .000000022 of its life.

That demonstrates that not only is intelligent life rare but that it is not an inevitability. Consider the case of dinosaurs, for instance. Coelurosaurian dinosaurs and their bird descendants have lived on Earth for 165 million years, yet not evolved a human-level intellect.

I gave upon the nuts and bolt aliens theory because of the clearly interdimensional nature of the whole phenomina.

There is not a scrap of solid physical hi-tech evidence for them.

Not one single clear hi-res photo.

Bit above all - because there is nothing in the whole spectrum of ET phenomena that is not essentially identical to the age old phenomina associated with Jinns, faeries, elementals, demons etc - only dressed up in a modern guise.


Thi whole phenomena is vastly more simply and rationaly explained by the Gnostic theory of alien intrusion - they even described the Greys and Reptillians, why they were here and what they wanted - and this is what the 'elites' throughout the ages have been in bed (mostly unknowingly) with the whole time.

www.jayweidner.com...

reply to post by Troofseeker


To convince me you would need to show me some evidence that can eclipse this often heard statement by many people throughout the world. "The world is a strange place."

reply to post by Troofseeker

It's obviously-not weight of evidence, for there are countless thousands of videos, pictures, and testimonies from laymen to experts, and yet the skeptics still brush it off.

I've yet to see any videos of alien visitation. I've seen a few poorly done hoaxed alien videos and I've seen dozens of UFO videos. But UFOs don't prove aliens they merely prove something unidentified is in the sky. There are testimonies of folks who've seen Elvis, Bigfoot and the virgin Mary, are we to accept what they claim despite the improbability that its true and the known flaws in human perception that might create such an experience? Blurry photographs and stories of people being probed have little weight as evidence.

As a skeptic what I'm hoping for is actual SCIENTIFIC evidence, primarily physical evidence. An alien body with DNA which doesn't correspond to any organism on Earth (thus meaning it evolved elsewhere) or one without DNA at all. One of the alien craft would also suffice providing it's technology was so far beyond our own as to be ruled out as a secret government project. All of this would need to be peer reviewed legitimate science.

What would it take to convince you of alien visitation to this planet?

The same thing it would take for me to believe in God. Actual scientific evidence.

Do you believe we are alone in the Universe?

Probably not, but whether intelligent life exists elsewhere is still a mystery.

Do you believe in God?

No.

1. Multiple images of the same UFO thing, taken by different people at the same time, with none of the witnesses being anonymous.
2. Some kind of hard physical artifact (an alien bolt, ray gun, an alien, whatever) with a clear chain of evidence linking it to the same UFO in the photos above.
3. Verification by a lot of independent labs that the thing is indeed alien, not of this Earth, etc.
4. Confirmation of the scientific findings by people in authority, up to and including the President and Pope.
5. The ability for me, personally, if I really wanted to, to go to this verified alien thing and touch it with my own fingers.

And for anyone who says, "Well, that's a ridiculously high set of requirements," I say that it's not that much different than the basic requirements it would take to prove anything exists, whether it be a Moon rock, the Eiffel Tower, or the chair you're sitting on right now. But it would be necessary to go through all the extra verification steps, because we're talking about something alien, instead of something we already pretty much agree exists.

The debunkers on this site are so naive ..do you think the govt would tell you the truth?..lol trust me the govt believes in aliens..

To Alien SKEPTICS you say? Well, I'm not one of those, so I guess your question doesn't apply to someone like me. A pity. (I wonder, then, why all the non-skeptics are responding???)

Nor am I a firm believer. How can I be? There is no empirical evidence available to me to examine! Some argue that the government has such evidence. Perhaps they do. But I haven't seen it.

Some argue that the myriad testimonies of pilots, military brass, and common men and women throughout the ages is evidence. Perhaps it was to them, but not to me. I have not seen "their" evidence.

Some say that we are filming and observing unusual phenomenon in the skies almost every day and in every corner of the earth and displaying characteristics that are impossible for human-created craft and that proves the existence of aliens. Perhaps it proves it to them - but not to me. Although I've seen an unusual aerial phenomenon or two - all I can claim, in truth to myself, is that such phenomenon must remain "unidentified" (that is why they are called as such).

You see, I am neither a skeptic nor a believer. I'm what you might call an "Alien-Agnostic" for lack of a better term. I simply search my soul and my mind and must honestly declare that I simply do not have enough direct, empirical evidence yet to convince me that Aliens exist. It does not matter how much I'd LIKE them to exist.

Nor does it matter (to me) how much OTHERS are certain they exist. I am sure that there are plenty of people on this planet who are convinced of not only the existence of Aliens, but also of Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, Chupacabgra, the Abominable Snowman, and many others. But, like Aliens, I have not seen any of these, although I think the probability of Alien's existence is very high comparatively.

But, probability and proof are not one and the same. Like Dr. Aczel, I believe such probability to be at or near 1.0, but it is still not proof.

I suppose, when the first UFO becomes an IFO, lands on the proverbial White House lawn (or better yet, my own backyard), or when one of the now infamous flavors of Alien beings decides to expose themselves to us all simultaneously and unambiguously (and not to just a few select Acronymists) - THEN I would be convinced.

The requirement of such proof does NOT make me a "skeptic", however. I'm just patient, is all. A patient, Alien-Agnostic...

For everyone else, my sig on ATS for many years says it all...

Either way, OP - thanks for posting - and keep looking up!

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The 1957 RB-47 case is certainly an interesting one, as are several other similar events. The Mexican Airforce gun camera from 2004 (I think) is also difficult to explain away, and appears to show something very similar to foo fighters. These sightings never appear to be vehicles with lights attached, but rather just lights.

I'm sure you are away of the Hessdalen phenomenon. It would appear that crustal activity (which can induce an electric current via rock being put under stress), coupled with local magnetic fields, is [perhaps] responsible. I have wondered if the technology we're using is in some way causing the observed phenomenon under some as-yet unknown extreme circumstances, producing a Hessdalen like effect. As ever, further research is required!

On a different subject, someone mentioned the fact that dinosaurs never evolved intelligence. There is a failry simple reason for this. An ostrich egg (the largest today, but comparable to many dinosaurs) only contains about 2000 calories, which is all it has to make a fully functional animal. In the womb, a human receives approximately the same per week - which means there's an awful lot of extra energy available for developing the grey matter. An egg laying dinosaur simply didn't have the energy budget to evolve any meaningful intelligence.

Originally posted by Troofseeker
I'm interested to learn what evidence of alien visitation to this planet would be sufficient enough to change a skeptic's mind.

I want a physical example of an alien that can be empirically studied and cataloged as not being from this earth. I want this aliens cultural and physical and evolutionary history made available for private and public study. If it can travel here from another world/dimension I want the means by which it used known physics to travel to our world be studied and verified by the scientific community and then be published. I want no less than what would be required of us if we were the ones visiting an alien world and making verifiable contact with their civilization.

It's obviously-not weight of evidence, for there are countless thousands of videos, pictures, and testimonies from laymen to experts, and yet the skeptics still brush it off. Can all that stuff really count for nothing? Is it even feasible that every single video, every single photograph, drawing and testimony throughout human history was either fake or a mistake?

First, UFOs are not specifically evidence of anything alien, period. They are simply things we humans see in the skies we can not identify. A lack of identification does not equate alien in nature. A large number of people want it to be aliens but until proven, its not. You can have semi truck loads of evidence and some of that evidence is admittedly very compelling no doubt, but without the body or the craft the evidence is still speculative and/or wishful thinking.

Another question I'd like to ask the skeptics is this:
If you don't believe in alien visitation to Earth, do you accept that there are very-probably millions of alien species out there, scattered throughout the universe? Or do you think we are alone?

As a self proclaimed rational thinker I don't use belief as a tool trying to research and understand this phenomena. Belief requires no facts, just faith and faith will not provide proof of anything, it is simply a tool for a believer to continue and reinforce said beliefs. I want to know, not believe. No I don't think we are alone in the universe but "very probably" is still not proof. I don't know that we are yet nor does anyone else on this planet. They may claim they do but a claim without any proof is just a story.

And lastly to the skeptics- do you believe in God? Do you go to church? Because to my mind, anyone who believes in God, by default believes in an omnipotent extra-terrestrial being with super-powers.

I do not believe in the version of "god" that is so popular on this planet. I have a thought though that there is most definitely something larger than us at work in our lives as there is with most any form of life. I bet an ant can't "see" a human but they most certainly can see the effects of the human, just can't explain it with their little ant brains. Same with us...