Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

reply to post by addygrace


Dear addygrace,

I apologize if it appeared that I was questioning you when I referred to the OP, my intent was to respond to the person I was responding to and keep them on point.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

I believe God is absolutely true. I actually believe Jesus is the truth. I believe in taking abiogenesis out of the science classroom, unless we include all forms of God in the classroom.

By what mechanism does god create life?

OR the universe?

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

reply to post by addygrace

Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

And what does that tell you about the nature of life, and it's mechanisms?

What predictions about biochemical interactions and cellular processes can you make from that?

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Dear ErtaiNaGia,

LMAO, you have absolutely no way of knowing, yet all knowledge begins and ends with you. Only you can "know", have that confidence that you live by. That is faith rather than belief, what you live by. That is the true definition of faith, rather than statements, what do you live by, how many do you help, how much of your income goes to others. I forgot, nobody matters as much as you, or I, selfishness should be our God because we are all that matters.

reply to post by AQuestion

LMAO, you have absolutely no way of knowing, yet all knowledge begins and ends with you. Only you can "know", have that confidence that you live by. That is faith rather than belief, what you live by. That is the true definition of faith, rather than statements, what do you live by, how many do you help, how much of your income goes to others. I forgot, nobody matters as much as you, or I, selfishness should be our God because we are all that matters.

That's a rather nihlistic way of looking at the world:

(Vid related)

reply to post by addygrace




Typically of Christians you mis-define evolution and you are wrong about what kids are taught but will you find out the truth and then change? Not likely.

Here it is even though I'm fighting a closed mind.

Kids ARE NOT taught that everything is due to mere CHANCE and happenstance. NO they are not. Evolution is all about the universe as it is and tracing it's history back to the beginning. NOW HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT YOU RELIGION PEOPLE ALWAYS GET WRONG. Science does not have any theory about the beginnings of the universe. They do not yet have enough information to be able to figure it all out. Meanwhile they do know that it was a sudden event. What caused it? They have no idea and so do not theorize about it. Now do not confuse "theory" with speculation. Of course they talk about what might the primal cause but talk is as far as it gets. It is you non science Christians who wrongly accuse science of pretending to know what they do not.

Now here is the kicker. Of course God created. Most people on earth believe that. But this is not something that can be quantified and tested and so it is NOT science and it cannot be taught. If you could only understand that.

Now here is kicker nr two. Yes I say that God created but I say the Bible Genesis is rubbish, it's sequence and time line being all wrong. This is a matter of faith and belief and cannot be treated as science for the aforementioned reasons. My personal view is that God created in a blazing moment and time began. The universe was then seeded with elementary elements which came together, heated up and ignited into suns where the heavy elements were manufactured. This process is the beginning of evolution. When life on earth progressed to the point that human souls could inhabit the proto human bodies that were evolving then God caused them to do so. This is the true meaning of the garden and Adam and Eve. It is why Cain could go off into the land of Nod and find a wife. It was the beginning of humanity but near the end of the early man things that had been living. Eventually the older ones died out and the real humans with souls were left to continue.

Evolution is the engine which does God's Intelligent Design work. It began at the big bang and continues unabated today in all things and life forms. God's hand is what makes animals change to fit new environments. But we cannot demonstrate this and therefore cannot teach it as science. Can't you get that through your thick heads?

Can't you religion people figure this out? Why do you insist upon lying about what science teaches? Why do you allow yourselves to be biased by Genesis? God did not write the Bible. If He did Leviticus would not talk about how it's OK to sell your daughter into slavery. How incredibly blind and ignorant and stubborn can you people get?

We, the thinking humans on the planet, will never allow our centuries of progress to be erased by those who blindly believe that God is only accessible through Christianity and the Bible. God is in all religions equally. To find God throw away the "holy books" and learn to think.

Just to get this topic back on track, it moved from evolution and creationism being taught in schools to the beginning of the universe.

A lot of people are in here talking about "facts" but the fact is we don't know, no one does. Scientists say they do and Christians say they do. however, here's the kicker if you research it you will see there are many different theories on evolution; just as many as there are religions but no true facts to prove any of it. So evolution in it's self becomes a matter of faith and there for (by law) should not be taught in schools either.

fact
   [fakt]
–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

reply to post by addygrace

Firstly, not all public schools teach crap like darwinism and evolution of humans from apes. It would depend on the country that set the education curriculum.
Secondly, I think those in power or at least those in power or at least those in the education department do not want the children of ours in the future to have a conscience, to be self-sacrificing and have a higher vision of our society. They just have to be to follow orders in our future Brave New World.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

Rolling a dice 30 times to show a probability is not miraculous.

I agree.

It didn't matter what you rolled, the probability is the same whether you rolled 30 6's or your combination.

Exactly.

Now if that sequence would have turned into life, then I would agree, that was miraculous.

You are still missing my point.


The odds of ANY event occuring are astronomical.

But these things happen all the time, because THINGS are occuring.


The genetic code of human beings IS what it IS, that at least we can agree on.

and the probability of it being THAT SPECIFIC combination of Guanine, antonine, cytocine, or thyamine is clearly ASTRONOMICAL........

just as a 30 rolls of a 6 sided dice landing on ANY combination is astronomical.


But looking at what has HAPPENED, and claiming the improbability of it as proof of the divine, is ignorant of causality, and probability.

The entire argument of the odds of the genetic code being what it is, as proof of the divine is a rediculous argument.

It's a red herring

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Couldn't that also be true of evolution?
Couldn't the entire argument of the odds of the genetic code being what it is, as proof of the evolutionary theory be just as a ridiculous argument?

PS. I am asking this to gain a better perspective of your point of view, and your whole participation in this thread.

reply to post by paintchip

A lot of people are in here talking about "facts" but the fact is we don't know

So, you are saying, that it is a FACT that there are no FACTS?

Then why should we believe you if you don't even agree with your own statement?

reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

Couldn't that also be true of evolution?
Couldn't the entire argument of the odds of the genetic code being what it is, as proof of the evolutionary theory be just as a ridiculous argument?

There is no such argument.

The odds of the genetic code being what it is has no bearing on the theory of evolution.

Evolution is a theoretical framework that fits all of the facts of life that we have observed in reality.

PS. I am asking this to gain a better perspective of your point of view, and your whole participation in this thread.

Increasing the level of scientific understanding, and logical thinking in the world. Starting here.

Originally posted by paintchip
Just to get this topic back on track, it moved from evolution and creationism being taught in schools to the beginning of the universe.

A lot of people are in here talking about "facts" but the fact is we don't know, no one does. Scientists say they do and Christians say they do. however, here's the kicker if you research it you will see there are many different theories on evolution; just as many as there are religions but no true facts to prove any of it. So evolution in it's self becomes a matter of faith and there for (by law) should not be taught in schools either.

fact
   [fakt]
–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

Umm....Actually this thread is abiogenesis being taught in school.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

 

Couldn't that also be true of evolution?
Couldn't the entire argument of the odds of the genetic code being what it is, as proof of the evolutionary theory be just as a ridiculous argument?

There is no such argument.

The odds of the genetic code being what it is has no bearing on the theory of evolution.

Evolution is a theoretical framework that fits all of the facts of life that we have observed in reality.

PS. I am asking this to gain a better perspective of your point of view, and your whole participation in this thread.

Increasing the level of scientific understanding, and logical thinking in the world. Starting here.

That IS the argument - Evolution vs Creation. If you are arguing against creation, then aren't you then arguing FOR evolution?

Scientific understanding seems to be an oxymoron. Take particle physics and string theories for instance. They have confirmed that particles exist in 10 dimensions - 4 are directly knowable, 6 are immesurable, but science denies the possibility of " things" existing in those dimensions. Such as spirits, or ghosts etc.

Originally posted by trailertrash
reply to post by addygrace

 

Typically of Christians you mis-define evolution and you are wrong about what kids are taught but will you find out the truth and then change? Not likely.

Here it is even though I'm fighting a closed mind.

Kids ARE NOT taught that everything is due to mere CHANCE and happenstance. NO they are not. Evolution is all about the universe as it is and tracing it's history back to the beginning. NOW HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART THAT YOU RELIGION PEOPLE ALWAYS GET WRONG. Science does not have any theory about the beginnings of the universe. They do not yet have enough information to be able to figure it all out. Meanwhile they do know that it was a sudden event. What caused it? They have no idea and so do not theorize about it. Now do not confuse "theory" with speculation. Of course they talk about what might the primal cause but talk is as far as it gets. It is you non science Christians who wrongly accuse science of pretending to know what they do not.

Now here is the kicker. Of course God created. Most people on earth believe that. But this is not something that can be quantified and tested and so it is NOT science and it cannot be taught. If you could only understand that.

Now here is kicker nr two. Yes I say that God created but I say the Bible Genesis is rubbish, it's sequence and time line being all wrong. This is a matter of faith and belief and cannot be treated as science for the aforementioned reasons. My personal view is that God created in a blazing moment and time began. The universe was then seeded with elementary elements which came together, heated up and ignited into suns where the heavy elements were manufactured. This process is the beginning of evolution. When life on earth progressed to the point that human souls could inhabit the proto human bodies that were evolving then God caused them to do so. This is the true meaning of the garden and Adam and Eve. It is why Cain could go off into the land of Nod and find a wife. It was the beginning of humanity but near the end of the early man things that had been living. Eventually the older ones died out and the real humans with souls were left to continue.

Evolution is the engine which does God's Intelligent Design work. It began at the big bang and continues unabated today in all things and life forms. God's hand is what makes animals change to fit new environments. But we cannot demonstrate this and therefore cannot teach it as science. Can't you get that through your thick heads?

Can't you religion people figure this out? Why do you insist upon lying about what science teaches? Why do you allow yourselves to be biased by Genesis? God did not write the Bible. If He did Leviticus would not talk about how it's OK to sell your daughter into slavery. How incredibly blind and ignorant and stubborn can you people get?

We, the thinking humans on the planet, will never allow our centuries of progress to be erased by those who blindly believe that God is only accessible through Christianity and the Bible. God is in all religions equally. To find God throw away the "holy books" and learn to think.

edit on 16-7-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-7-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)

I'm talking about abiogenesis, not evolution. Why is it still being taught in schools?

Can anybody show why abiogenesis gets special treatment, and is allowed to be taught in our school systems? I don't get the double standard.

To the OP: The reason is simple. Simple minds like yours and childrens cannot properly comprehend the scientific complexity of the processes that brought us all here. Instead of seeking to understand and quantify it you waste your time with stupid esoteric boogeymanesque nonsesnse to explain it away.

This is a 'learned' human behaviour common in most cultures. Absolute rubbish handed down through the generations to keep them in fear of whatever church or government rules over and more importantly taxes them and collects rent.

It's all control. Thats all it ever was, is, and will be.

..and if the truth be told, in this day and age? only the very stupid still fall for it.

Thats why ANY educational institution worth the staggering amount we pay them to educate our kids had bloody well better steer away from that nonsense. Nobody with any common sense wants some rabid religious mumbo jumbo distracting their children from important academic subjects.

reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

Couldn't the entire argument of the odds of the genetic code being what it is, as proof of the evolutionary theory be just as a ridiculous argument?

There is no such argument.

The odds of the genetic code being what it is has no bearing on the theory of evolution.

Evolution is a theoretical framework that fits all of the facts of life that we have observed in reality.

That IS the argument - Evolution vs Creation. If you are arguing against creation, then aren't you then arguing FOR evolution?

No, I'm telling you that it's not.

We don't have a theory of evolution because we looked at the genetic code and said "Hey, what are the odds of this happening randomly"

We have the theory of evolution because we observed the morphology of breeding populations, genetic drift over various generations, variations in allele frequencies, heredity from one generation to anouther, etcetera, etcetera.

And we decided to call this CATAGORY of knowledge and study "Evolution"

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

 

There is no such argument.

The odds of the genetic code being what it is has no bearing on the theory of evolution.

Evolution is a theoretical framework that fits all of the facts of life that we have observed in reality.

By the way - evolution does not fit the Facts of life that we observe today. Here is some evidence to support my statement ;

amazingdiscoveries.tv...

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.

If this is what you pass off as scientific reasoning, it's no wonder America is so low in test scores.

Next time, instead of hand-waving, study some actual math on the genome complexity problem and get back to me.

reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

By the way - evolution does not fit the Facts of life that we observe today. Here is some evidence to support my statement ;

Your statement is false, and your source is... incorrect to a painful extent.