Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

Fair is fair. I'll start pushing for creationism in schools when they start preaching evolution in church.

Originally posted by N3k9Ni
Fair is fair. I'll start pushing for creationism in schools when they start preaching evolution in church.

I think both should teach both. Many spiritual people have zero problem with allowing the evidence of evolution into their mythos just as many scientist are religious and have no problem fitting their god(s) into their subscribed science models.

Neither is proven and both are popular. Much like everything else we believe in.

Originally posted by posthuman

Originally posted by randyvs

No, people just don't want their kids being TOLD what to believe by a SCHOOL; the school's job is to facilitate the child's learning & development, so that when the time is right they can form their own belief systems

reply to post by posthuman

 

I understand you and from a secular position would have to agreee. No matter what my beliefs are.
It's tough to go along with it, because from what scripture says, it really psses God off.
As it leaves them vulnerable to all kinds of wacky ideas. Like not believing in God.

Come on man.. IF there was a god do you honestly think he'd care if we 'left (kids) open to wacky ideas'? Surely if he was that involved then his presence would be far more implicit in the human experience to begin with. Bunch a' scaredy cats.

I'm not even sure at this point you've ever even cracked a Bible.But........ any way.

To begin with his presence was far more implicit. And will be again. We chose in our wonderful wisdom to go it alone. That's why he allows you to believe what you want. Which is, from what I can tell, absurd. ( if there was a God )

reply to post by AQuestion

Dear ErtailNaGia,

Now tell us what you will roll in advance and then roll it.

Like you predicted what our genetic code would be before it formed?

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by addygrace
By only allowing one view on origins, we are basically killing any chance for our kids to discover critical thinking skills, rather than just following the imagination of another human being.

Before I get into my reply, I want to disclose that I am a Christian.

"Old & New Testament" explains our origins and existence on a fundamental level, so that an individual without knowledge can organize the world. Extreme philosophical, fundamental, and metaphorical approach. Biblical literature can and should be tested through sciences. Provides the foundation for the 'what if...' mentality.

"Origin of the Species", Science, and Psychology explain our origins and existence on a complex level, so that a knowledgeable individual can understand the mechanics behind God's creations. Consistently tested through various methods. Puts the 'what if..' mentality into context.

Can the bible provide methods for healing diseases?
Can the bible provide methods for measuring time?
Can the bible provide methods for healing illnesses?
Can the bible provide methods for making synthetic materials?

Get it?

Psychology teaches people about analytical thinking.
Reading teaches people about critical thinking.
Science teaches people about critical and analytical thinking.
Literature teaches people about philosophy, mythology, and culture.
Math teaches people logic, organization, and analytical thinking.

If you take a step back for a moment, you would realize there is a larger picture.

When it comes to learning and teaching religion, you will find it being examined in philosophy courses. Colleges and high schools around the nation make philosophy an 'option' for students and parents.

(Note: I am firmly against Creationism being taught in schools.)

Evolution has been tested and proven countless of times.
God cannot be tested due to his lack of physical form.

Archeology can help us prove Biblical events through scientific methods used for uncovering historical site, artifacts, and literature.

Get it?

Remember, Jesus Christ was not about forcing people to believe in God. Christ was about using patience and allowing mankind to find God for themselves. Why not do what Jesus did?

edit on 7/15/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

I get it, but my problem is with teaching abiogenesis in biology class. Are you ok with abiogenesis being taught in biology class?

By the way, I wish I could do what Jesus did, but it seems no man shall. He was a one of a kind, and the WWJD crowd actually seem to forget that. By the way, Jesus is the authority, in which my soul is saved by grace.

reply to post by addygrace

No you can't. But what would be more impressive is if the dice rolls actually came out in that exact sequence without the help of a conscious mind creating that exact scenario, and a conscious mind observing it.

The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.


Musing about the complexity of the genetic code, and the "Odds" of it being in the exact same sequence that it is now... is the exact same as rolling a dice several trillion times, and being amazed that it landed on a specific number.


I'm trying to teach probability.... you seem to be missing the point.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Dear ErtaiNaGia,

Not our genetic code, our decisions, we need to take responsibility for our choices and stop blaming others. You have not predicted in advance because other things effect the outcome, other people have free will also. If you blame all your choices and beliefs on your genetics than you justify all that you do wrong rather than take responsibility. Heck, that is what the schools teach anymore. Are you a teacher? Just joking. Just a thought, what if the schools taught about personal responsibility rather than God?

reply to post by AQuestion

Dear ErtaiNaGia,

Not our genetic code, our decisions, we need to take responsibility for our choices and stop blaming others. You have not predicted in advance because other things effect the outcome, other people have free will also. If you blame all your choices and beliefs on your genetics than you justify all that you do wrong rather than take responsibility. Heck, that is what the schools teach anymore. Are you a teacher? Just joking. Just a thought, what if the schools taught about personal responsibility rather than God?

That's very nice.

Perhapse you missed the part where I was attempting to explain probabiltiy, as opposed to bantering free will, choice, morality, etcetera.

Hello everyone.
I began reading every post in this thread. I stopped after page 5.
What seems to be clear to me, is that people are quick to blurt out personal opinions, particularly when it comes to matters concerned with Christianity vs sciences. These opinions seem to be purely presumptuous bias, not based on any research or factual grounding. That is my observation.

To give everyone who is participating in this thread some research material that perhaps has gone previously unknown, I thought that I would post some links to some topics that are relevant to the theme that this thread is coasting along.

I AM NOT TRYING TO PERSUADE ANYONES WAY OF THINKING. I am merely trying to present ANOTHER side of the coin, that many seem to fail to observe.

I encourage that these presentations be viewed and reviewed IN FULL before any comments or rebuttals be directed to the forum.


Link to science vs creation documentaries ;

amazingdiscoveries.tv...


Link to Big Bang theory vs Intelligent Design ;

en.wikipedia.org...

Link to complexity observations ;
www.gotquestions.org...

These articles may help to support or debunk some pre-ceived misconceptions about science and Christianity, which seems to be the point that this thread has funnelled into.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

No you can't. But what would be more impressive is if the dice rolls actually came out in that exact sequence without the help of a conscious mind creating that exact scenario, and a conscious mind observing it.

The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.


Musing about the complexity of the genetic code, and the "Odds" of it being in the exact same sequence that it is now... is the exact same as rolling a dice several trillion times, and being amazed that it landed on a specific number.


I'm trying to teach probability.... you seem to be missing the point.

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Yes, I'm missing the point. What does the complexity of the genetic code have to do with this thread?

Originally posted by addygrace

Yes, I'm missing the point. What does the complexity of the genetic code have to do with this thread?

Thread Title: Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

That.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Dear ErtaiNaGia,

I get probability, I really do, you don't get free will. You clearly do not understand responsibility, it is a consequence of free choice. Tell me the next ten number I will roll on a dice, you cannot, will one set be a possible outcome, I bet it will and what? Anything that is possible must be random if it occurs? Wow, genius, no explanation for anything makes sense. It was a possibility, is that the science you want to teach? Anything can happen, we don't need to understand why it did. That philosophy is completely anti-scientific. Heck, if I accept your precept then science should not be taught either, stuff happens.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

No you can't. But what would be more impressive is if the dice rolls actually came out in that exact sequence without the help of a conscious mind creating that exact scenario, and a conscious mind observing it.

The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.


Musing about the complexity of the genetic code, and the "Odds" of it being in the exact same sequence that it is now... is the exact same as rolling a dice several trillion times, and being amazed that it landed on a specific number.


I'm trying to teach probability.... you seem to be missing the point.

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Actually, the moment you place significance on a number, it becomes a statistical liability. Sure, you can pick any random sequence of numbers and say that it is just as significant as something that is a rare occurrence but... it's not.

If you say that "six" is important on the die, then you have two groups; 1-5 and then 6. Then it is a rare event. Your example is just as flawed as that Gamblers Fallacy theory. It just isn't right in practice or endogeny.

reply to post by addygrace


Children are taught this at school because its easier to teach. The incredible ignorance about religion here shows it. Examples are 'religions started wars', 'who made god', part a contradicts part b in .

Raising children with no moral compass other than what TV tells them allows governments to dictate what is moral and suitable for their needs.

I applaud you for considering home schooling. I am currently doing this myself. My children are learning all theories put forward without bias.

Its funny, when I was a kid they taught you that caveman used to live when dinosaurs where around and that our star system was the only one with planets orbiting it. This was the science of the day. I imagine todays science will look as ridiculous when my children are at my age.

The thing that irks me somewhat is the men of science in the 60/70's where just as arrogant and self assured about how 'the latest science' was a complete explanation in the same way as they are today.

Creation and Big Bang theory (I'm not talking about natural or artificial selection here) should be taught possibly as history or maybe philosophy rather than science. Science fact should be taught as science, not science theory. In Australian schools (where i live) environmentalism is being taught to primary school children as young as 6. This is outrageous AGW is being taught as truth and 100% confirmed fact and please try to tell me this is a solid subject without credible skeptics. Just an example of governments selective education.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
Originally posted by addygrace

 

Yes, I'm missing the point. What does the complexity of the genetic code have to do with this thread?

Thread Title: Why are kids taught in public schools to believe in next to impossible chance, rather than God?

That.

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Thank you. I said next to impossible, not because of probability, but because abiogenesis breaks the law of biogenesis.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

No you can't. But what would be more impressive is if the dice rolls actually came out in that exact sequence without the help of a conscious mind creating that exact scenario, and a conscious mind observing it.

The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.


Musing about the complexity of the genetic code, and the "Odds" of it being in the exact same sequence that it is now... is the exact same as rolling a dice several trillion times, and being amazed that it landed on a specific number.


I'm trying to teach probability.... you seem to be missing the point.

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Just for your information - the chances that a die will land on a specific number, or any one of the numbers is 1:6. If you throw a single dice, then it can fall six ways, each of which is equally likely if the dice is true. So the probability of getting one particular value is 1/6. If you want either of two values it is 2/6 or 1/3, and so on.

gwydir.demon.co.uk...

reply to post by AQuestion

Dear ErtaiNaGia,

I get probability, I really do, you don't get free will.

I never made a comment on free will, therefore your statment that I do not GET free will is absolutley meaningless.

You clearly do not understand responsibility, it is a consequence of free choice.

I never made a comment on responsability, therefore your comment that I do not GET responsability is meaningless.

Tell me the next ten number I will roll on a dice, you cannot, will one set be a possible outcome, I bet it will and what?

I never claimed predictive capabilities, therefore your statement is meaningless.

Anything that is possible must be random if it occurs?

My statement was an allegory to attempt to explain probability, and why claiming that a specific OUTCOME of something, due to it's inherent improbability, being called "Magic" in any way, is rediculous.

Wow, genius, no explanation for anything makes sense.

Please explain EXACTLY how you arrived at the conclusion that that was my meaning.

Be specific, and answer in detail.

It was a possibility, is that the science you want to teach?

It *WAS* a possibility, as all things are, until they are set.

A Dice has a possibility of landing on any number from one to six BEFORE it is rolled.... but after it is rolled, then it just landed on whatever it landed on.

Claiming that the improbability for something occuring, is proof of divine intervention, AFTER the thing has happened, is downright ignorant of probability, causality, and logic.

Anything can happen, we don't need to understand why it did.

No, we don't NEED to understand the why's... but some of us like being knowledgable, instead of ignorant.

That philosophy is completely anti-scientific. Heck, if I accept your precept then science should not be taught either, stuff happens.

Are you feeling okay?

You seem to be throwing words at me despite the fact that you don't actually have a coherent argument behind them, or a solid grasp of the rationality that communication implies.

You do realize that words cant just mean whatever you FEEL like they should mean... right?


I cam in this thread to teach people about probability and causality.

I am not making a case for or against god.... I am arguing against the supposed "Improbability" of things that have already occured.


By your logic, nothing would ever happen anywhere.


The odds of a specific oxygen molecule finding its way into your lungs at a specific second is CLEARLY astronomical...

But what if we are talking about one that already DID about 5 minutes ago?

the odds are STILL astronomical, but it HAPPENED.

Do you get what I mean? or am I going to have to spell it out further?

reply to post by 1king2rulethemall

Just for your information - the chances that a die will land on a specific number, or any one of the numbers is 1:6. If you throw a single dice, then it can fall six ways, each of which is equally likely if the dice is true. So the probability of getting one particular value is 1/6. If you want either of two values it is 2/6 or 1/3, and so on.

I think it's absolutley incredible that you didn't even bother to think about what I said in my post... here it is again, and try not to fall asleep.... this is important, remember that.

ErtaiNaGia
The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

Did I specify a number?

Go ahead... find a 6 sided dice.... and roll it.


Did it land on a NUMBER?

reply to post by addygrace

Thank you. I said next to impossible, not because of probability, but because abiogenesis breaks the law of biogenesis.

Do you understand what you are saying?

or are you just winging it?

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by addygrace

 

No you can't. But what would be more impressive is if the dice rolls actually came out in that exact sequence without the help of a conscious mind creating that exact scenario, and a conscious mind observing it.

The odds of a dice landing on a NUMBER is 1 to 1

The FACT that it landed on a specific number is not magical... it's normal.


Musing about the complexity of the genetic code, and the "Odds" of it being in the exact same sequence that it is now... is the exact same as rolling a dice several trillion times, and being amazed that it landed on a specific number.


I'm trying to teach probability.... you seem to be missing the point.

edit on 15-7-2011 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)

Rolling a dice 30 times to show a probability is not miraculous. It didn't matter what you rolled, the probability is the same whether you rolled 30 6's or your combination. Now if that sequence would have turned into life, then I would agree, that was miraculous.